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Thread: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

  1. #41
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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but



    sounds like woo. The ketonic diet for weight loss for example seems like a sham. I hope there is some serious science behind this.
    I haven't dug deep, but my thoughts are
    1. Dr. Rhonda Patrick (@foundmyfitness) is awesome. I always check at least the lede on her links. She illuminates the cutting edge of medicine.
    2. I'm a believer that ideally, every person would be abiding by a custom diet based on genetics, metabolism, age, etc. and that what works for one may not work for another. My wife has had terrific results by reducing carbs and increasing good fats. (I am a carb addict myself but it doesn't seem to do me harm)
    3. I feel that it's clear most Americans eat way too many processed carbs, whatever they might be replaced by. Raw vegetables or animal proteins or whatever.
    4. Weight loss for its own sake is misguided and unhealthy.
    Having said all that, some of the case studies are fascinating.
    Last edited by geezer; 10-05-2017 at 10:51 AM.
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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer View Post
    I haven't dug deep, but my thoughts are
    1. Dr. Rhonda Patrick (@foundmyfitness) is awesome. I always check at least the lede on her links. She illuminates the cutting edge of medicine.
    2. I'm a believer that ideally, every person would be abiding by a custom diet based on genetics, metabolism, age, etc. and that what works for one may not work for another. My wife has had terrific results by reducing carbs and increasing good fats. (I am a carb addict myself but it doesn't seem to do me harm)
    3. I feel that it's clear most Americans eat way too many processed carbs, whatever they might be replaced by. Raw vegetables or animal proteins or whatever.
    4. Weight loss for its own sake is misguided and unhealthy.
    Having said all that, some of the case studies are fascinating.
    Honestly, I am not trying to be a jerk, but wouldn't "eat right and exercise" cover all this, without any requirement to diet at all? I say this as someone who does neither.
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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Honestly, I am not trying to be a jerk, but wouldn't "eat right and exercise" cover all this, without any requirement to diet at all? I say this as someone who does neither.
    Yes, but we as a people do better with correct diets when they have a theme onto which we can latch. Most of these low-carb diets are healthy eating simply packaged differently. They allow for eating protein, fats, and complex carbs. Almost to a last, they merely limit/eliminate simple carbs as their method of getting people to eat right. Because they have a theme, people have an easier time adhering to them, so long as they're not too severe in their calorie reduction.
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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    Yes, but we as a people do better with correct diets when they have a theme onto which we can latch. Most of these low-carb diets are healthy eating simply packaged differently. They allow for eating protein, fats, and complex carbs. Almost to a last, they merely limit/eliminate simple carbs as their method of getting people to eat right. Because they have a theme, people have an easier time adhering to them, so long as they're not too severe in their calorie reduction.
    That makes sense. Thanks.
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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Diets are much more individual than most would believe. Yes, fruit, veggies, water. But some bodies are better at processing one thing than another...some bodies need more of something than something else. I was told by Mayo that based on blood tests, etc I specifically should be eating wheat products.
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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    Diets are much more individual than most would believe. Yes, fruit, veggies, water. But some bodies are better at processing one thing than another...some bodies need more of something than something else. I was told by Mayo that based on blood tests, etc I specifically should be eating wheat products.
    Yes, everyone is different, but we still set standards for nutrition and then deviate when necessary. Catch 70% of the people in the standard, and then change as necessary. My basal metabolic rate was 2034Kcal a couple months ago. My base rate is roughly the same number of Calories the average person should eat in an average day. Add exercise and/or a physical job into the mix, and my caloric needs are much higher than the average person. I also need to take in more vitamin D than the average person. Still, I start with base guidelines and then work from there.
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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Honestly, I am not trying to be a jerk, but wouldn't "eat right and exercise" cover all this, without any requirement to diet at all? I say this as someone who does neither.
    There's a huge disparity of opinions about what that bolded part even means. The "food pyramid" from my childhood is completely foreign to a modern dietitian. But yes, "eat right" is synonymous with "diet." "Diet" is too often interpreted as, eating less food to lose weight.
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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    Diets are much more individual than most would believe. Yes, fruit, veggies, water. But some bodies are better at processing one thing than another...some bodies need more of something than something else. I was told by Mayo that based on blood tests, etc I specifically should be eating wheat products.
    You're right, and a lot of the solution is simply paying attention to how you feel in relation to your recent meals. I've never had any major medical care or blood tests etc (thank God) but within a week or two realized vast gains in energy level and sleep quality simply by giving up sweetened drinks.
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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer View Post
    There's a huge disparity of opinions about what that bolded part even means. The "food pyramid" from my childhood is completely foreign to a modern dietitian. But yes, "eat right" is synonymous with "diet." "Diet" is too often interpreted as, eating less food to lose weight.
    The food pyramid from 1950 was based upon a man/woman who had more active lives. They could burn off those simply carbs because working in a foundry, warehouse, building a car, etc. allowed the body to burn those carbs fast. We don't lead those lives for the most part anymore, so we have to adjust how we eat.


    When I was working landscaping in college, I would sometimes be "forced" into a situation where I ate fast food three times per day. Still, I lost weight during those summers. If I ate that way just a couple years later, which I did, I'd pack on a hundred pounds, which I did. Now I don't.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    The food pyramid from 1950 was based upon a man/woman who had more active lives. They could burn off those simply carbs because working in a foundry, warehouse, building a car, etc. allowed the body to burn those carbs fast. We don't lead those lives for the most part anymore, so we have to adjust how we eat.


    When I was working landscaping in college, I would sometimes be "forced" into a situation where I ate fast food three times per day. Still, I lost weight during those summers. If I ate that way just a couple years later, which I did, I'd pack on a hundred pounds, which I did. Now I don't.
    I wonder, though, whether 1950 FDA recommendations were different for say 50 year olds.

    It's certainly true that most people are more sedentary now than then, and of course also that many kids can get away with consuming mass quantities and never gaining a ounce. Those bastids.
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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer View Post
    Some of the case studies on how ketogenic dieting abates psychosis better than drugs do is fascinating. One woman had schizophrenia for 60 years and got her best results from a "whole food" low carb diet. Pushing your diet even moderately in the direction of lowering carbs and raising fat may be generally good for mental stability and well being.
    Gut brain connection, more and more studies on it. Also diet and autism, cure no, help with daily living, yes according to some who do it.

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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer View Post
    Some of the case studies on how ketogenic dieting abates psychosis better than drugs do is fascinating. One woman had schizophrenia for 60 years and got her best results from a "whole food" low carb diet. Pushing your diet even moderately in the direction of lowering carbs and raising fat may be generally good for mental stability and well being.
    The journal the main review article referenced in this post is a known likely predatory journal with questionable peer review so I would take the points with a grain of salt. That being said, a perusal of their references are basically only case studies which are nearly the lowest form of evidence. They should be used to develop, not test, a hypothesis.

    The case study you highlight does not even provide evidence the patient was in ketosis (they did not use urine strips which is the bare minimum in supporting effective ketosis), which is a fatal flaw since it is very difficult to maintain complaince for effective ketosis (just ask all the poor kiddos who will go into status epilepticus with a candy bar).

    I am not an expert in ketosis, however one of my mentors in undergrad who I still talk with (he also wrote me an excellent letter for medical school and residency) is an expert. I worked in his lab for 3 years which "kindled" rats to develop epilepsy then tested different methods for suppressing seizures. That lab used 2 DG and found it may have utility mimicking a ketogenic diet, suppressing epilepsy. This has had some trouble in phase 1 trials but still has some potential.

    Something important to note is that the mechanisms of epilepsy are very different from mood disorders so research in one area is very unlikely to be helpful in the other.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-Deoxy-D-glucose

    Also there is some authority "buffing" by the author of the article. She is described as "Harvard trained" although she appears to have just been on staff at Harvard for a period, which is very different from receiving formal training. Funny she didn't mention the places she went to undergrad, medical school, or did residency
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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Thatís a great response to my irresponsible headline skimming method of research, and what I love about this forum: the breadth and depth of true expertise. Thank you. (I did point out that they were only case studies and assumed that meant they were just cool stories that might help point to interesting future research)
    In other news, I got some of that pink Himalayan salt thatís supposedly 20 million years old....
    It expires in September 2018, lucky they dug it up in time.
    Last edited by geezer; 10-05-2017 at 10:04 PM.

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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer View Post
    In other news, I got some of that pink Himalayan salt that’s supposedly 20 million years old....
    It expires in September 2018, lucky they dug it up in time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by geezer View Post
    I haven't dug deep, but my thoughts are
    1. Dr. Rhonda Patrick (@foundmyfitness) is awesome. I always check at least the lede on her links. She illuminates the cutting edge of medicine.
    2. I'm a believer that ideally, every person would be abiding by a custom diet based on genetics, metabolism, age, etc. and that what works for one may not work for another. My wife has had terrific results by reducing carbs and increasing good fats. (I am a carb addict myself but it doesn't seem to do me harm)
    3. I feel that it's clear most Americans eat way too many processed carbs, whatever they might be replaced by. Raw vegetables or animal proteins or whatever.
    4. Weight loss for its own sake is misguided and unhealthy.
    Having said all that, some of the case studies are fascinating.
    4. I did that. In December 2007, after coming down from 396 in December 2003, I weighed about 200. But I kept right on going. And in 2009, when I started endurance running, I froze my calories at 1500-1600 a day... while training for my first marathon. In November 2009, I weighed 146. A skeleton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    40% of cancers tied to obesity.



    As I recall, you were pretty intense on the workouts...maybe too intense. Balance.

    Not sure red meat is the answer. Keeping my personal workouts reasonable but consistent, yes water, and going mostly vegetarian. Never felt better.
    I was diagnosed with anemia in 2010, while anorexic. Imagine having a hemoglobin level of 6. I tried it then and it helped get that count up.

    In terms of the workouts, I thought I could do endurance race after endurance race, on little to no rest. And I was doing fine for awhile. But then my body flat out said "**** you." And compounding the fatigue is the fact I work second shift. I've seen my coworkers pound coffee or Monster like it's nothing. I'm surprised I keep my coffee at 4 cups a day.

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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    In the start of this thread I said ...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sicatoka View Post
    And yes, my day is coming soon enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by SonofSouthie View Post
    Done that, 3 times already. Was given propofol for the "light sedation" with no problems. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    This. Start earlier. I had mine at 52 but in retrospect just start at 45 ferchrissakes -- risk/reward. ...
    The procedure is a breeze (because you're on a beach on the Pain Killer Archipelago) and there's no aftermath issues atoll.
    To make a point, I scheduled and went in.

    The prep was no worse than a Saturday night bender with too much Budweiser and Taco Bell.

    However, I decided to go "native". Yup. No nothing. Keep your Propofol and Versed*. Pain? No. Uncomfortable? Sure. And before you say, "that's cray-cray", the procedure is done in Europe native more often than not. Sedation is most common in the US and France. I can see France, but I hate to see the US go soft and for the drugs.


    * aka: the date rape drug
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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sicatoka View Post
    In the start of this thread I said ...







    To make a point, I scheduled and went in.

    The prep was no worse than a Saturday night bender with too much Budweiser and Taco Bell.

    However, I decided to go "native". Yup. No nothing. Keep your Propofol and Versed*. Pain? No. Uncomfortable? Sure. And before you say, "that's cray-cray", the procedure is done in Europe native more often than not. Sedation is most common in the US and France. I can see France, but I hate to see the US go soft and for the drugs.


    * aka: the date rape drug
    Cray,Cray without a doubt. I woke up during one and I wasn't " cleaned out " well enough. Dr was using air pressure to move it along so to speak. He literally blew it out my butt. Very uncomfortable to say the least. Next time I said I best not wake up.

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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    ... and I wasn't " cleaned out " well enough.
    Dude, that's on you.*
    Next time may I recommend the chili cheese burrito from the value menu?


    *Or was it on the person running the scope?
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    Re: The Medical Thread: We're experts on everything else; why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sicatoka View Post
    Dude, that's on you.
    Next time may I recommend the chili cheese burrito from the value menu?
    Instead of 1 day fast I do 2 days. Still not cleaned out. I've had many scopes. I will never drink lemon Gatorade again

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