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WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

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  • Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Originally posted by manurespreader View Post
    Yes, subsequently then there is a scrum at the Denver goal,in saturday's game, St cloud is in the net behind the goalie and scores, which is called back. The refs also called a major on St cloud late in the second and overall Motzko was really unhappy. He made pointed comments on tv about the refs on friday and then he and Montgomery had to be separated by the refs in the post game handshake line.
    I want to point out that this gentlemen's agreement has been a joke for a couple of years at least now and though I give Motzko credit for going by it, he should understand if he wants a kid, sign him to an NLI right away.
    speaking of issues, I've heard that BU is going to push to cut the age of recruits, as Lucia did a couple of years ago, and if we are reviewing the rules, maybe we ought to review haw many commits a team can have listed, because some teams, the skunks in particular, have a huge number.

    This is sports, and sportsmanship ought to come first, no matter how disappointed you are. Doing this sets a terrible example for the players, and those two guys ought to be ashamed of themselves. Even with the refereeing we have in our league, and it's not all that hot, we don't end up with coaches fighting.
    I know it's not confined to our sport, but well, I'm not a fan of it. I was in Croatia recently.. Dynamo Zagreb was at Split Hajduk, for the derby. A huge game and Zagreb gets a tie in the waning minutes on a penalty kick given for an infraction in the box. Split was so unhappy that the executives go over to the Zagreb box and start a fist fight. From that were several arrests.
    That doesn't surprise me from BU. There seemed to be a concerted effort when MSU played them to hype up the fact that they were so much younger than MSU. It's interesting watching these recruiting issues from a distance (I don't know the ins and outs or know anything about the recruits until they get in our program). I understand the thinking of some of the coaches pushing for these things, but it seems to me that their ire is misguided.

    PROBLEM #1: They want to get rid of the gentlemen's agreement. OK, I get it. There are some schools that are abusing it. Namely the biggest of big schools like Michigan and Wisconsin. But they conveniently gloss over the unintended consequences of it and the spirit of the rule. Simple fix....limit the number of "commitments" that a school can accept. Another simple fix....limit the young age during which a school can recruit. These are DIRECT rules at the supposed problems. Not end arounds.

    PROBLEM #2: They want to limit the upper end of the age of college players. Again, I get it. The reasoning goes that A) they want athletes to mirror the general student population and B) some coaches are stringing guys along and forcing them to stay in juniors longer before actually offering them a legitimate scholarship. This, again, seems like the biggest abusers of these rules are the larger schools that over recruit and force kids to sit out. By all accounts (and it's hard to find actual figures, but maybe someone here has them), the average age of college kids is rising, so who is the actual outlier? Is it the younger teams? Or is it the older teams? Secondly, again, there is a simple solution to this problem. Limit the number of "commitments" that a school can accept.

    In my view, if you over recruit, you are the cause of this problem. Not everyone else. You take kids that are younger. You take kids that leave after 1 or 2 years, of course your average age is going to be younger. That's not everyone else's problem, that's yours. Different teams take different approaches and if your approach is to take the most talented kids that are going to leave in a year or two, your team is ALWAYS going to be younger. It's a simple mathematical problem (I know....college's being required to understand math. UNBELIEVABLE!)


    I guess my point is, if the concerns that they air are the real reason they want to eliminate these things or limit ages, then fix the problem directly even if the solution hurts their own program. If they are truly worried about "college hockey" then do the right thing and quit trying to find a way to maybe fix the problems and not caring about the collateral damage. If the concerns are actually something different and they are trying to limit smaller schools opportunities to compete (which is what it seems like from the tactics they are taking), then at least have the integrity to say that.
    Mess with the bull, you get the horns.

    Comment


    • Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

      Originally posted by Bale View Post

      I guess my point is, if the concerns that they air are the real reason they want to eliminate these things or limit ages, then fix the problem directly even if the solution hurts their own program. If they are truly worried about "college hockey" then do the right thing and quit trying to find a way to maybe fix the problems and not caring about the collateral damage. If the concerns are actually something different and they are trying to limit smaller schools opportunities to compete (which is what it seems like from the tactics they are taking), then at least have the integrity to say that.
      Well i'd bet a dollar to a donut that the real motivation has nothing to do with concern for the players or age equality to the student body or any of that. It's pure and simple a way to get an edge and win more games. IMHO.
      An argument could be made that recruits would develop faster at a non name school, because exposure does not skate down the ice, or get you better at taking face-offs.
      MTU: Three time NCAA champions.

      It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond

      Comment


      • Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

        Originally posted by manurespreader View Post
        Yes, subsequently then there is a scrum at the Denver goal,in saturday's game, St cloud is in the net behind the goalie and scores, which is called back. The refs also called a major on St cloud late in the second and overall Motzko was really unhappy. He made pointed comments on tv about the refs on friday and then he and Montgomery had to be separated by the refs in the post game handshake line.
        I want to point out that this gentlemen's agreement has been a joke for a couple of years at least now and though I give Motzko credit for going by it, he should understand if he wants a kid, sign him to an NLI right away.
        Unfortunately a coach can't always sign a player to an NLI right away. Their are age restrictions, and signing periods to abide by. UND was known to "steal" a few UAA recruits over the years ... this has been going on for a long time, but it's not talked about very much.
        Originally Posted by aparch
        I love the "UA_" comment. When I see it, I think of re-runs of Match Game, and Gene Rayburn going "U, A, Blank... UA blank"

        From ADN:

        "According to NCAA, the (UAF) hockey team used ineligible players in every game played from the 2007-08 season to the 2010-11 season. Over that span, the wins and ties will all become losses. 4 wins and 2 ties came against rival UAA".

        UAF is 56-86-12 vs. UAA.

        Comment


        • Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

          Originally posted by Suze View Post
          Unfortunately a coach can't always sign a player to an NLI right away. Their are age restrictions, and signing periods to abide by. UND was known to "steal" a few UAA recruits over the years ... this has been going on for a long time, but it's not talked about very much.
          Suze is right...Guttman had committed to SCSU in April 2016 at the age of 17. The early signing period for what should be players coming in for 2018 started on November 8, 2017 and Guttman flipped and decommitted/signed on November 13, 2017. As far as twitter/heisenberg say.
          Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

          Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

          Comment


          • Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

            Originally posted by Suze View Post
            Unfortunately a coach can't always sign a player to an NLI right away. Their are age restrictions, and signing periods to abide by. UND was known to "steal" a few UAA recruits over the years ... this has been going on for a long time, but it's not talked about very much.
            Matty Thomas alluded to this during our Blue Line Club luncheon last week (thought not naming specific programs). It comes down to getting a player to realize that they can make a bigger impact at a UAA (or UAH) than the bigger program that may end up not having a regular spot for him after they've over recruited. And that's not easy.
            Michael Napier - UAH '97
            uahhockey.com

            UAH Chargers Hockey
            U.S. National Club Champions - 1982, 1983, 1984
            NCAA Division II National Champions - 1996, 1998
            CHA Regular Season Champions - 2001, 2003
            CHA Tournament Champions - 2007, 2010

            Comment


            • Originally posted by UAHStatman View Post
              Matty Thomas alluded to this during our Blue Line Club luncheon last week (thought not naming specific programs). It comes down to getting a player to realize that they can make a bigger impact at a UAA (or UAH) than the bigger program that may end up not having a regular spot for him after they've over recruited. And that's not easy.
              I remember Andy Taranto alluding to that many years ago with UAF. Supposedly North Dakota and others went after him and he stayed with the Nanooks anyway because he knew he would play right away and not get stashed on a fourth line. He wound up with a 40 point season and CCHA ROY honors as a Freshman.
              “We offer no apology for our location at 64 51’21’’ north latitude. We are building for the future and we are confident that well directed effort and education are the forces which make progress possible”

              —UA President Charles E. Bunnell, 1925

              Comment


              • Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

                Originally posted by UAHStatman View Post
                Matty Thomas alluded to this during our Blue Line Club luncheon last week (thought not naming specific programs). It comes down to getting a player to realize that they can make a bigger impact at a UAA (or UAH) than the bigger program that may end up not having a regular spot for him after they've over recruited. And that's not easy.
                Hmmm. Interesting. It should not be this way, but there will always be those coaches who are a bit unscrupulous and are more interested about winning "at all cost".
                Originally Posted by aparch
                I love the "UA_" comment. When I see it, I think of re-runs of Match Game, and Gene Rayburn going "U, A, Blank... UA blank"

                From ADN:

                "According to NCAA, the (UAF) hockey team used ineligible players in every game played from the 2007-08 season to the 2010-11 season. Over that span, the wins and ties will all become losses. 4 wins and 2 ties came against rival UAA".

                UAF is 56-86-12 vs. UAA.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post

                  This isn’t the first time Tavis MacMillan has been apart of one of these post game handshake scuffles. He had a heated argument with Rick Comley of Michigan State after a game when he was head coach of UAF.

                  Comment


                  • Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

                    Originally posted by Suze View Post
                    Hmmm. Interesting. It should not be this way, but there will always be those coaches who are a bit unscrupulous and are more interested about winning "at all cost".
                    Most of them want to continue to be employed, so...

                    I wasted about an hour and went thru the remaining schedule for all the teams to see what I found and here it is.

                    Msu-- 69 points.
                    BGSU--63 points
                    MTu- 46 points
                    NMU- 46 points
                    Bsu- 41 points
                    Alaska 41 points
                    UAA- 36 points
                    FSU-- 31 points
                    LSSU- 29 points
                    UAH 28 points

                    just an exercise in futility but the schedule going forward is pretty interesting. 1 win either way has big impacts, just like the last few years.
                    MTU: Three time NCAA champions.

                    It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by GoNanooks View Post
                      This isn’t the first time Tavis MacMillan has been apart of one of these post game handshake scuffles. He had a heated argument with Rick Comley of Michigan State after a game when he was head coach of UAF.
                      I've seen better arguments from old married couples.
                      Just to be clear. My disinterest in this team became of the Uni's disinterest. Without the success of the hockey team, the other teams would not be where they are. Way to pay back the hockey team. **** UAA.

                      Comment


                      • Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

                        WCHA Non-Conference Results

                        25 NCHC Games (3-9-3)
                        15-17 Big10 Games (3-10-0)
                        3-5 Hockey East Games (2-0-0)
                        7 Atlantic Hockey Games (2-3-1)
                        5 ECAC Games (1-2-0)
                        5-7 Independent Games (1-1-0)
                        4-6 Interleague Games (Not counted in league total)
                        7 Exhibitions (Not counted in league or team total)
                        TOTAL: 12-25-4

                        ALABAMA-HUNTSVILLE (1-5-0)
                        -2 at Notre Dame L 3-5, L 0-4
                        -2 at Cornell L 1-5, L 0-3
                        -2 at Arizona State L 2-3, W 3-1

                        ALASKA (2-3-1)
                        -Simon Fraser (EXH) W 6-0
                        -2 with Air Force L 2-3, T 1-1
                        -2 at St. Cloud L 3-6, L 4-5 (OT)
                        -at Alaska-Anchorage W 6-2
                        -Alaska-Anchorage W 3-2

                        ALASKA-ANCHORAGE (0-5-1)
                        -Simon Fraser (EXH) W 6-1
                        -2 with North Dakota T 1-1, L 2-3 (OT)
                        -2 at Colorado College L 1-6, L 2-3
                        -Alaska L 2-6
                        -at Alaska L 2-3

                        BEMIDJI STATE (2-1-1)
                        -Minnesota-Duluth W 5-2
                        -at Minnesota-Duluth T 0-0
                        -2 with Air Force W 4-1, L 1-5
                        -2 @ Princeton
                        -North Dakota
                        -at North Dakota

                        BOWLING GREEN (1-2-0)
                        -Wilfrid Laurier (EXH) W 3-1
                        -US Under 18 Team (EXH) W 4-1
                        -at Western Michigan L 1-3
                        -Michigan State W 3-1
                        -at Michigan State L 2-3
                        -2 with Miami
                        -Western Michigan
                        -vs. Michigan (Detroit)
                        -vs. Michigan State/Michigan Tech (Detroit)

                        FERRIS STATE (3-5-0)
                        -at Western Michigan L 1-6
                        -Western Michigan W 3-2
                        -2 at Mercyhurst W 3-2, L 1-4
                        -2 at Michigan L 2-7, W 3-2 OT
                        -at Michigan State L 2-3 OT
                        -Michigan State L 1-3

                        LAKE SUPERIOR STATE (1-4-1)
                        -Laurentian (EXH) W 3-2
                        -Northern Michigan W 5-2
                        -at Northern Michigan L 1-4
                        -2 at Denver T 3-3, L 1-5
                        -2 at Michigan State L 3-4, L 0-6
                        -vs. Robert Morris (Pittsburgh)
                        -vs. Arizona State/Providence (Pittsburgh)

                        MICHIGAN TECH (2-1-0)
                        -at Wisconsin L 2-3
                        -vs. Union (Duluth) W 6-3
                        -vs. Minnesota-Duluth (Duluth) W 4-3
                        -vs. Michigan State (Detroit)
                        -vs. Michigan/Bowling Green (Detroit)
                        -vs. Boston College (Las Vegas)
                        -vs. Arizona State/Northern Michigan (Las Vegas)
                        -2 with Arizona State

                        MINNESOTA STATE (2-1-0)
                        -Regina (EXH) W 8-0
                        -St. Cloud State L 0-4
                        -2 at Boston University W 6-3, W 3-0
                        -at Minnesota-Duluth
                        -at St. Cloud State
                        -Minnesota-Duluth
                        -US Under 18 Team (EXH)

                        NORTHERN MICHIGAN (2-2-0)
                        -at Lake Superior State L 3-5
                        -Lake Superior State W 4-1
                        -2 vs. Wisconsin (Green Bay) W 5-4 (OT), L 0-4
                        -2 at Nebraska-Omaha
                        -vs. Arizona State (Las Vegas)
                        -vs. Boston College/Michigan Tech (Las Vegas)
                        Millsy

                        NCAA TOURNAMENT 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010!
                        FROZEN FOUR 2009!


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                        BEMIDJI STATE BEAVERS!
                        NAIA National Champs: 1968, '69, '70, '71, '73, '79, '80
                        NCAA D-III National Champs: 1986
                        NCAA D-II National Champs: 1984, '93, '94, '95, '97
                        NCAA D-I National Champs: 20??
                        Perfect 31-0 in 1983-84
                        Holders of an NCAA Mens Record 43 straight wins (Nov. 8, 1983-Jan. 1, 1985)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by GoNanooks View Post
                          This isn’t the first time Tavis MacMillan has been apart of one of these post game handshake scuffles. He had a heated argument with Rick Comley of Michigan State after a game when he was head coach of UAF.
                          Comley hated going to Fairbanks. We had some fans return the love over the years, too.
                          “We offer no apology for our location at 64 51’21’’ north latitude. We are building for the future and we are confident that well directed effort and education are the forces which make progress possible”

                          —UA President Charles E. Bunnell, 1925

                          Comment


                          • Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

                            Nice road win, Beavs! Not many ECAC matchups, so each win is a biggie.

                            Comment


                            • Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

                              Wonder why our weekly columnist are so late with their weekly predictions and comments. I saw nothing for the Bemidji- Princeton game for Wednesday.
                              MTU Huskies 3 time NCAA Champions... and going for more.
                              2017-18 WCHA playoff Pick'em Champion!

                              Comment


                              • Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

                                Originally posted by Wi.Huskies Fan View Post
                                Wonder why our weekly columnist are so late with their weekly predictions and comments. I saw nothing for the Bemidji- Princeton game for Wednesday.
                                They are so late posting the column that I only get to read it when I get home from our Friday game. I only live a half hour from the arena so they should have it up in time. They need to get it together and be much more timely.

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