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Thread: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

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    Quote Originally Posted by manurespreader View Post
    So the question is then: That would put us real near 500. What kind of record will the other conferences have and Does those big wins vs power teams get us an extra bid.
    It will depend on who keeps wining but it should be a better chance than before.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Some very big non conference games this week coming up. Bemidji has their work cut out for them in Princeton. Those guys are good, play disciplined and will be ready to play. it will be tough. The BG series with miami will also be huge. Miami is better than last year and Bg has to have a win if they want to move up in the power.
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    Quote Originally Posted by manurespreader View Post
    Some very big non conference games this week coming up. Bemidji has their work cut out for them in Princeton. Those guys are good, play disciplined and will be ready to play. it will be tough. The BG series with miami will also be huge. Miami is better than last year and Bg has to have a win if they want to move up in the power.
    I sure hope BG waits till next week to prepare for Miami. They have to concentrate on Mankato first.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by manurespreader View Post
    .... The BG series with Miami will also be huge. Miami is better than last year ...
    I watched (streamed) the Miami vs North Dakota games last weekend. Miami looked fast to me - the PBP guys mentioned it a couple of times too.

    I've always enjoyed the BG / Miami games and this one promises to be no exception (Miami grad, in the spirit of full disclosure), but I think if Miami stays out of the penalty box, BG has its hands full.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by pdt1081 View Post
    I sure hope BG waits till next week to prepare for Miami. They have to concentrate on Mankato first.
    Sorry, I got ahead of myself a bit there.
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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by pdt1081 View Post
    I sure hope BG waits till next week to prepare for Miami. They have to concentrate on Mankato first.
    That's OK. Stay home! Rest up this weekend!

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Apparently the on ice officiating in our league is not the only place fans are unhappy. Witness the travesty that went on in Denver this last weekend.
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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by manurespreader View Post
    Apparently the on ice officiating in our league is not the only place fans are unhappy. Witness the travesty that went on in Denver this last weekend.
    What happened in Denver? I don't feel like reading through their posts to find out.
    Originally Posted by aparch
    I love the "UA_" comment. When I see it, I think of re-runs of Match Game, and Gene Rayburn going "U, A, Blank... UA blank"

    From ADN:

    "According to NCAA, the (UAF) hockey team used ineligible players in every game played from the 2007-08 season to the 2010-11 season. Over that span, the wins and ties will all become losses. 4 wins and 2 ties came against rival UAA".

    UAF is 56-86-12 vs. UAA.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by Suze View Post
    What happened in Denver? I don't feel like reading through their posts to find out.
    Motzko and Montgomery both got fined for "having some words" with the officiating crew. I don't know the details.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Motzko and Montgomery both got fined for "having some words" with the officiating crew. I don't know the details.
    Ive read that it might have had something to do with a top recruit bailing on SCSU at the last second and sending a Letter of intent to Denver instead. Montgomery may have violated the unwritten rule of leaving a player alone once he verbally commits.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by MavsFan19 View Post
    Ive read that it might have had something to do with a top recruit bailing on SCSU at the last second and sending a Letter of intent to Denver instead. Montgomery may have violated the unwritten rule of leaving a player alone once he verbally commits.
    As far as I know, the gentleman’s agreement is dead thanks to the B1G schools, but yes most of this was related to Cole Guttman flipping from SCSU to DU right before the early signing period.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    As far as I know, the gentleman’s agreement is dead thanks to the B1G schools, but yes most of this was related to Cole Guttman flipping from SCSU to DU right before the early signing period.
    Yes, subsequently then there is a scrum at the Denver goal,in saturday's game, St cloud is in the net behind the goalie and scores, which is called back. The refs also called a major on St cloud late in the second and overall Motzko was really unhappy. He made pointed comments on tv about the refs on friday and then he and Montgomery had to be separated by the refs in the post game handshake line.
    I want to point out that this gentlemen's agreement has been a joke for a couple of years at least now and though I give Motzko credit for going by it, he should understand if he wants a kid, sign him to an NLI right away.
    speaking of issues, I've heard that BU is going to push to cut the age of recruits, as Lucia did a couple of years ago, and if we are reviewing the rules, maybe we ought to review haw many commits a team can have listed, because some teams, the skunks in particular, have a huge number.

    This is sports, and sportsmanship ought to come first, no matter how disappointed you are. Doing this sets a terrible example for the players, and those two guys ought to be ashamed of themselves. Even with the refereeing we have in our league, and it's not all that hot, we don't end up with coaches fighting.
    I know it's not confined to our sport, but well, I'm not a fan of it. I was in Croatia recently.. Dynamo Zagreb was at Split Hajduk, for the derby. A huge game and Zagreb gets a tie in the waning minutes on a penalty kick given for an infraction in the box. Split was so unhappy that the executives go over to the Zagreb box and start a fist fight. From that were several arrests.
    Last edited by manurespreader; 11-15-2017 at 09:44 AM.
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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by MavsFan19 View Post
    Ive read that it might have had something to do with a top recruit bailing on SCSU at the last second and sending a Letter of intent to Denver instead. Montgomery may have violated the unwritten rule of leaving a player alone once he verbally commits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    As far as I know, the gentleman’s agreement is dead thanks to the B1G schools, but yes most of this was related to Cole Guttman flipping from SCSU to DU right before the early signing period.
    Aaaaah, I get it now, hadn't heard that. Sheesh, what a soap opera.

    Quote Originally Posted by manurespreader View Post
    This is sports, and sportsmanship ought to come first, no matter how disappointed you are. Doing this sets a terrible example for the players, and those two guys ought to be ashamed of themselves. Even with the refereeing we have in our league, and it's not all that hot, we don't end up with coaches fighting.
    Well said. We did come close there with Damon and Mel a couple years ago. This incident must've been a bit more hands-on than that, if they had to be pulled apart.
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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Aaaaah, I get it now, hadn't heard that. Sheesh, what a soap opera.



    Well said. We did come close there with Damon and Mel a couple years ago. This incident must've been a bit more hands-on than that, if they had to be pulled apart.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Wow, what a PR disaster. Totally embarrassing for both schools and both coaches. They should be suspended and one step away from being fired.



    This is the biggest bag of nothing of the season so far.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by manurespreader View Post
    Yes, subsequently then there is a scrum at the Denver goal,in saturday's game, St cloud is in the net behind the goalie and scores, which is called back. The refs also called a major on St cloud late in the second and overall Motzko was really unhappy. He made pointed comments on tv about the refs on friday and then he and Montgomery had to be separated by the refs in the post game handshake line.
    I want to point out that this gentlemen's agreement has been a joke for a couple of years at least now and though I give Motzko credit for going by it, he should understand if he wants a kid, sign him to an NLI right away.
    speaking of issues, I've heard that BU is going to push to cut the age of recruits, as Lucia did a couple of years ago, and if we are reviewing the rules, maybe we ought to review haw many commits a team can have listed, because some teams, the skunks in particular, have a huge number.

    This is sports, and sportsmanship ought to come first, no matter how disappointed you are. Doing this sets a terrible example for the players, and those two guys ought to be ashamed of themselves. Even with the refereeing we have in our league, and it's not all that hot, we don't end up with coaches fighting.
    I know it's not confined to our sport, but well, I'm not a fan of it. I was in Croatia recently.. Dynamo Zagreb was at Split Hajduk, for the derby. A huge game and Zagreb gets a tie in the waning minutes on a penalty kick given for an infraction in the box. Split was so unhappy that the executives go over to the Zagreb box and start a fist fight. From that were several arrests.
    That doesn't surprise me from BU. There seemed to be a concerted effort when MSU played them to hype up the fact that they were so much younger than MSU. It's interesting watching these recruiting issues from a distance (I don't know the ins and outs or know anything about the recruits until they get in our program). I understand the thinking of some of the coaches pushing for these things, but it seems to me that their ire is misguided.

    PROBLEM #1: They want to get rid of the gentlemen's agreement. OK, I get it. There are some schools that are abusing it. Namely the biggest of big schools like Michigan and Wisconsin. But they conveniently gloss over the unintended consequences of it and the spirit of the rule. Simple fix....limit the number of "commitments" that a school can accept. Another simple fix....limit the young age during which a school can recruit. These are DIRECT rules at the supposed problems. Not end arounds.

    PROBLEM #2: They want to limit the upper end of the age of college players. Again, I get it. The reasoning goes that A) they want athletes to mirror the general student population and B) some coaches are stringing guys along and forcing them to stay in juniors longer before actually offering them a legitimate scholarship. This, again, seems like the biggest abusers of these rules are the larger schools that over recruit and force kids to sit out. By all accounts (and it's hard to find actual figures, but maybe someone here has them), the average age of college kids is rising, so who is the actual outlier? Is it the younger teams? Or is it the older teams? Secondly, again, there is a simple solution to this problem. Limit the number of "commitments" that a school can accept.

    In my view, if you over recruit, you are the cause of this problem. Not everyone else. You take kids that are younger. You take kids that leave after 1 or 2 years, of course your average age is going to be younger. That's not everyone else's problem, that's yours. Different teams take different approaches and if your approach is to take the most talented kids that are going to leave in a year or two, your team is ALWAYS going to be younger. It's a simple mathematical problem (I know....college's being required to understand math. UNBELIEVABLE!)


    I guess my point is, if the concerns that they air are the real reason they want to eliminate these things or limit ages, then fix the problem directly even if the solution hurts their own program. If they are truly worried about "college hockey" then do the right thing and quit trying to find a way to maybe fix the problems and not caring about the collateral damage. If the concerns are actually something different and they are trying to limit smaller schools opportunities to compete (which is what it seems like from the tactics they are taking), then at least have the integrity to say that.
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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by Bale View Post

    I guess my point is, if the concerns that they air are the real reason they want to eliminate these things or limit ages, then fix the problem directly even if the solution hurts their own program. If they are truly worried about "college hockey" then do the right thing and quit trying to find a way to maybe fix the problems and not caring about the collateral damage. If the concerns are actually something different and they are trying to limit smaller schools opportunities to compete (which is what it seems like from the tactics they are taking), then at least have the integrity to say that.
    Well i'd bet a dollar to a donut that the real motivation has nothing to do with concern for the players or age equality to the student body or any of that. It's pure and simple a way to get an edge and win more games. IMHO.
    An argument could be made that recruits would develop faster at a non name school, because exposure does not skate down the ice, or get you better at taking face-offs.
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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by manurespreader View Post
    Yes, subsequently then there is a scrum at the Denver goal,in saturday's game, St cloud is in the net behind the goalie and scores, which is called back. The refs also called a major on St cloud late in the second and overall Motzko was really unhappy. He made pointed comments on tv about the refs on friday and then he and Montgomery had to be separated by the refs in the post game handshake line.
    I want to point out that this gentlemen's agreement has been a joke for a couple of years at least now and though I give Motzko credit for going by it, he should understand if he wants a kid, sign him to an NLI right away.
    Unfortunately a coach can't always sign a player to an NLI right away. Their are age restrictions, and signing periods to abide by. UND was known to "steal" a few UAA recruits over the years ... this has been going on for a long time, but it's not talked about very much.
    Originally Posted by aparch
    I love the "UA_" comment. When I see it, I think of re-runs of Match Game, and Gene Rayburn going "U, A, Blank... UA blank"

    From ADN:

    "According to NCAA, the (UAF) hockey team used ineligible players in every game played from the 2007-08 season to the 2010-11 season. Over that span, the wins and ties will all become losses. 4 wins and 2 ties came against rival UAA".

    UAF is 56-86-12 vs. UAA.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by Suze View Post
    Unfortunately a coach can't always sign a player to an NLI right away. Their are age restrictions, and signing periods to abide by. UND was known to "steal" a few UAA recruits over the years ... this has been going on for a long time, but it's not talked about very much.
    Suze is right...Guttman had committed to SCSU in April 2016 at the age of 17. The early signing period for what should be players coming in for 2018 started on November 8, 2017 and Guttman flipped and decommitted/signed on November 13, 2017. As far as twitter/heisenberg say.
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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by Suze View Post
    Unfortunately a coach can't always sign a player to an NLI right away. Their are age restrictions, and signing periods to abide by. UND was known to "steal" a few UAA recruits over the years ... this has been going on for a long time, but it's not talked about very much.
    Matty Thomas alluded to this during our Blue Line Club luncheon last week (thought not naming specific programs). It comes down to getting a player to realize that they can make a bigger impact at a UAA (or UAH) than the bigger program that may end up not having a regular spot for him after they've over recruited. And that's not easy.
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