WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

[MavHockey14]

Im sorry, but most of this just feels like a giant overreaction to some bad luck in the NCAAs.

I guess I set the bar at what UMD and SCSU do and believe that Minnesota State should be able to be on par with them. The amount of NHL picks playing in the NCHC is 35, compared to 8 in the WCHA this year, as I previously mentioned. (With the WCHA having 2 more teams.)

St. Cloud State has 4 draft picks, 3 from Minnesota.

Minnesota Duluth has 5 draft picks, 5 from Minnesota.

Minnesota State has 1 draft pick, 1 from Minnesota.

When recruiting those types of players, it’s an easier sell to say you’re going to play in a league littered with draft picks, etc. compared to one where a guy here or there is drafted in your league.

Yes the WCHA, and Minnesota State, has guys like Daniel Brickley who are coveted NHL free agrents, but the NCHC has guys like that as well, and those guys are in addition to the NHL draft picks, etc.

Not to mention, the NCHC has consistently been the top conference, or in the top 2 conferences in the country. In addition to a league with more talent, do you want to play where there’s a track record of consistent success in non conference play vs. the majority of the country and every team in the league is a top half of D1 team, or in a league where half the teams are in the bottom 15 of NCAA teams?

All this said, these are the questions recruits considering UMD and MSU, or SCSU and MSU, are weighing. To take the next step, I think it’s imperative to start bringing in that kind of talent, particularly when a lot of these kids are within easy driving distance of the campus in Mankato.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

I guess I set the bar at what UMD and SCSU do and believe that Minnesota State should be able to be on par with them. The amount of NHL picks playing in the NCHC is 35, compared to 8 in the WCHA this year, as I previously mentioned. (With the WCHA having 2 more teams.)

St. Cloud State has 4 draft picks, 3 from Minnesota.

Minnesota Duluth has 5 draft picks, 5 from Minnesota.

Minnesota State has 1 draft pick, 1 from Minnesota.

When recruiting those types of players, it’s an easier sell to say you’re going to play in a league littered with draft picks, etc. compared to own where a guy here or there is drafted in your league.

Yes the WCHA, and Minnesota State, has guys like Daniel Brickley who are coveted NHL free agrents, but the NCHC has guys like that as well, and those guys are in addition to the NHL draft picks, etc.

Not to mention, the NCHC has consistently been the top conference, or in the top 2 conferences in the country, consistently. In addition to a league with more talent, do you want to play where there’s a track record of consistent success in non conference play vs. the majority of the country, or in a league where half the teams are in the bottom 15 of NCAA teams?

All this said, these are the questions recruits considering UMD and MSU, or SCSU and MSU, are weighing, particularly kids that are within easy driving distance of the campus in Mankato.

There is little doubt that the NCHC top to bottom is a better league and I understand wanting to be with UMD, SCSU, UND but I also like winning. MSU seems even less able to handle falling into mediocrity than MTU. NCHC is a meat grinder and as much as I would like to know just how good MTU is, I'm quite happy getting home Ice regularly and making the NCAA 3 of 4 years...It might be a little more difficult to make the NCAAs out of the WCHA, but as long as a team focuses on themselves, I don't see any reason the WCHA can't win another title, just need to find a way to get over the hump in the NCAAs...

[Iwearpurple]

Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

I feel quite confident that we can make it into the tournament on our record, whether we are in the WCHA or the NCHC. And based on the fact that in the 3 of 5 last years, we were in the tournament whether or not we won our league championship, based on our Pairwise.

Secondly, it is clear that is where Coach Hastings wants to be, and I believe the majority of our fans would rather be. We have done a good job of increasing our attendance, but that is due to having a team with a winning record. But I feel it would be great to have to sell SRO tickets for many of our home games.

[Jimjamesak]

There is a better chance that moving to the NCHC turns Mankato into a doormat, ala Miami, than there is that the move turns them into a title contender. In fact, I'd say it is a much, much better chance.

Miami, CC, and Western are learning the harsh lesson that when there is no minnow for you to pick on, you are the minnow.

[TalonsUpPuckDown]

Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

Miami, CC, and Western are learning the harsh lesson that when there is no minnow for you to pick on, you are the minnow.

And if you read their message boards (Miami State and Western), half their posters are screaming for their coaches heads while a quarter are screaming to get out of the Nachos and in with us.

I think being in Minnesota gives Mankato an edge over those three in recruiting and travel. However, I can't ever see a situation where Miami State and Western ever agree to another Minnesota based team getting in without some sort of concessions (whatever they may be). If Mankato does get in, it'll be over K'zoo's and Oxford's dead bodies.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

And if you read their message boards (Miami State and Western), half their posters are screaming for their coaches heads while a quarter are screaming to get out of the Nachos and in with us.

I think being in Minnesota gives Mankato an edge over those three in recruiting and travel. However, I can't ever see a situation where Miami State and Western ever agree to another Minnesota based team getting in without some sort of concessions (whatever they may be). If Mankato does get in, it'll be over K'zoo's and Oxford's dead bodies.

it makes too much sense to swap BSU and MSU for Miami and WMU...but I'm not sure WMU and Miami can swallow their pride on that...I'd hate it personally because the closest games would be in Houghton for me...granted that would probably mean more NC games with NCHC since they would have no shorter road trips than MTU other than UW and Minny.

[TalonsUpPuckDown]

Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

it makes too much sense to swap BSU and MSU for Miami and WMU...but I'm not sure WMU and Miami can swallow their pride on that...I'd hate it personally because the closest games would be in Houghton for me...granted that would probably mean more NC games with NCHC since they would have no shorter road trips than MTU other than UW and Minny.

Which means you would end up with the following:

Nacho =oWCHA - (B1G + Tech + UAA)
nWCHA = CCHA + Tech + UAA + UAH - B1G

Seems like a lot of hullabaloo for very little gain. Would have saved everyone time and energy if oWCHA went to Tech and UAA and said GTFOOH. We'd be right where you propose we should be. But then we'd have nothing to debate and the last 5 years would have been boring.

[manurespreader]

Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

Well to me Mankato will be a bit above omaha. I still say they would make the tournament a good bit ,but not as often as now. I think it might make it marginally better to get players but only marginally.I think the biggest plus for them is less travel. However, having said that, they only get in with ASU if you ask me, and that means trips to Michigan, Ohio, Denver and Phoenix. Plus with so many teams you won't get 4 games vs all the in state teams every year. So suddenly there will be almost as much travel and maybe fewer in state games than you want.
I didn't know that about the two schools near BG. I doubt Miami is happy with their decision to jump. And i'm sure WMU is questioning it.
It's one thing to go when you like who you are with and get along and work together. But when the others in your group are arrogant jerks, and basically shove it up you at every opportunity, it makes it more difficult to swallow.I'm looking at you Denver.

[jsmithe]

Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

Miami, CC, and Western are learning the harsh lesson that when there is no minnow for you to pick on, you are the minnow.

It's as if they all went into this thinking, "Somebody's got to finish last, but it won't be me."

[Crocodile Tears]

Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

WCHA has the MacNaughton, hence, will always be cooler than everyone but the NHL.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

WCHA has the MacNaughton, hence, will always be cooler than everyone but the NHL.

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

I think that we would certainly hold our own in the NCHC. Our record against NCHC opponents in the last 4 years are: 17-18 (2W-2L), 16-17 (2W-0L), 15-16 (0W-5L), and 14-15 (2W-2L).

This is the myth of the NCHC. Fans think that just because they play in a "power" conference their team magically gets better by putting a different conference patch on their uniforms. Your combined record against the NCHC (using your numbers above) is 6 wins and 9 loses. That's a losing record and it means you're in the bottom half of the conference keeping company with CC, Miami, Western and likely ASU. So even if you win ALL your NC games you're going to be just over 0.500 overall. How is this getting you to the NCAA tourney? "Battle tested" won't matter when your team is watching the tourney on the ESPN family of networks from home...

Everyone thinks that their team won't be one of the "bottom feeders" but the reality is that half of the conference HAS to finish in the bottom half. It sounds stupid to even have to say something like that but I think a lot of fans can't grasp that simple concept or they assume "it will be all the other teams" who are in the bottom half. So you'll be hanging an NCHC membership banner in your rink rather than NCAA tourney appearances and hopefully wins.

If that is really what Mankato wants, let them go. One less potential hurdle for the remaining top WCHA to make the tourney each season. I really don't think it would be that tough to get one of the Western AH teams to move to the WCHA or one of the NCHC Eastern teams to do the same if the NCHC doesn't pick up ASU for an even number.

Ryan

[MavHockey14]

This is the myth of the NCHC. Fans think that just because they play in a "power" conference their team magically gets better by putting a different conference patch on their uniforms. Your combined record against the NCHC (using your numbers above) is 6 wins and 9 loses. That's a losing record and it means you're in the bottom half of the conference keeping company with CC, Miami, Western and likely ASU. So even if you win ALL your NC games you're going to be just over 0.500 overall. How is this getting you to the NCAA tourney? "Battle tested" won't matter when your team is watching the tourney on the ESPN family of networks from home...

Everyone thinks that their team won't be one of the "bottom feeders" but the reality is that half of the conference HAS to finish in the bottom half. It sounds stupid to even have to say something like that but I think a lot of fans can't grasp that simple concept or they assume "it will be all the other teams" who are in the bottom half. So you'll be hanging an NCHC membership banner in your rink rather than NCAA tourney appearances and hopefully wins.

If that is really what Mankato wants, let them go. One less potential hurdle for the remaining top WCHA to make the tourney each season. I really don't think it would be that tough to get one of the Western AH teams to move to the WCHA or one of the NCHC Eastern teams to do the same if the NCHC doesn't pick up ASU for an even number.

Ryan

Initially it means you simply change the conference logos, etc.

As I mentioned, they Mavs are lacking in talent behind UMD and SCSU, two schools that MSU needs to beat more for recruits to enhance their talent. Playing in the top conference in college hockey, like those two schools do, would help MSU immensely in terms of recruiting.

I’ve laid out a number of reasons why, with stats showing the difference in talent between the two leagues.

[purpleinnebraska]

This is the myth of the NCHC. Fans think that just because they play in a "power" conference their team magically gets better by putting a different conference patch on their uniforms. Your combined record against the NCHC (using your numbers above) is 6 wins and 9 loses. That's a losing record and it means you're in the bottom half of the conference keeping company with CC, Miami, Western and likely ASU. So even if you win ALL your NC games you're going to be just over 0.500 overall. How is this getting you to the NCAA tourney? "Battle tested" won't matter when your team is watching the tourney on the ESPN family of networks from home...

Everyone thinks that their team won't be one of the "bottom feeders" but the reality is that half of the conference HAS to finish in the bottom half. It sounds stupid to even have to say something like that but I think a lot of fans can't grasp that simple concept or they assume "it will be all the other teams" who are in the bottom half. So you'll be hanging an NCHC membership banner in your rink rather than NCAA tourney appearances and hopefully wins.

If that is really what Mankato wants, let them go. One less potential hurdle for the remaining top WCHA to make the tourney each season. I really don't think it would be that tough to get one of the Western AH teams to move to the WCHA or one of the NCHC Eastern teams to do the same if the NCHC doesn't pick up ASU for an even number.

Ryan

But by that logic, we should go D3, win all of our games, and have attendance of 5000+ every night!
There’s a balance between winning, playing quality hockey, and having rivalry games. We have a lot more geographic rivalries with NCHC teams. I am seriously concerned that the quality of play in the WCHA is moving closer to AH, and further from the ECAC. As Iwearpurple noted, there are fewer and fewer drafted players coming to the WCHA. That’s the sort of thing that just snowballs, as good players don’t come because they don’t see any other good players already in the conference.
I like the WCHA and what we’ve accomplished, but I worry about the sustainability of it.

[giwan]

Initially it means you simply change the conference logos, etc.

As I mentioned, they Mavs are lacking in talent behind UMD and SCSU, two schools that MSU needs to beat more for recruits to enhance their talent. Playing in the top conference in college hockey, like those two schools do, would help MSU immensely in terms of recruiting.

I’ve laid out a number of reasons why, with stats showing the difference in talent between the two leagues.

How do you see it helping in recruiting? Do you believe all of a sudden those recruits won't go to UMD or SCSU let alone UM? Who are you stealing recruits from?