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Thread: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by bigblue_dl View Post
    I think the WCHA's move, in this hypothetical depends on what happens with the Alaska schools. They have said that hockey is safe at both schools, but I don't get the impression that everyone thinks that is actually the case. If we lose one of the Alaskas, then I think the WCHA stays at 8, at least in the short term. If everyone is comfortable with the stability of both of the Alaska schools, WCHA pulls in Robert Morris.
    Personally, I would prefer a league with 8 teams rather than 10 or more. You'd get a 28-game league schedule having a home and road series against each of the other 7 schools. I know it's a minor point but the unbalanced schede is a pet peeve of mine. I'd like to see every league opponent at the Mac every year.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    If Mankato would bolt, that wlild put the Beavers in a tough spot with Tech being the closest conference foe......

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by bigblue_dl View Post
    If everyone is comfortable with the stability of both of the Alaska schools, WCHA pulls in Robert Morris.
    I've seen RMU floated in the past but I've always wondered why they would leave the AHC, especially since the scholarship situation has been resolved. What's in it for them? They seem to have a pretty good setup where they are.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by beaverhockeyfan View Post
    If Mankato would bolt, that wlild put the Beavers in a tough spot with Tech being the closest conference foe......
    I always thought it made the most sense for Bemidji and MSU to go as a pair (especially since BG told them non merci when they inquired about our interest the last time around). With that scenario the oWCHA is just about back together (traded Minnesota and Wisconsin for Western and Miami State).

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by TalonsUpPuckDown View Post
    I always thought it made the most sense for Bemidji and MSU to go as a pair (especially since BG told them non merci when they inquired about our interest the last time around). With that scenario the oWCHA is just about back together (traded Minnesota and Wisconsin for Western and Miami State).
    Which is where this is going to end up. Meaning that the whole NCHC formation was completely pointless, which it was. Would have been much easier, and much less of a headache to just oust Bruce McLeod, and fix the leadership of the old WCHA than do what they ended up doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalonsUpPuckDown View Post
    I always thought it made the most sense for Bemidji and MSU to go as a pair (especially since BG told them non merci when they inquired about our interest the last time around). With that scenario the oWCHA is just about back together (traded Minnesota and Wisconsin for Western and Miami State).
    And that's exactly what the founders of the NCHC wanted. The old WCHA minus money drains Anchorage and Tech.

    Miami and Western are locked in thanks to outrageous breakup fees.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by aparch View Post
    And that's exactly what the founders of the NCHC wanted. The old WCHA minus money drains Anchorage and Tech.

    Miami and Western are locked in thanks to outrageous breakup fees.
    Bemidji got into the WCHA by paying the $250,000 fee, building a new arena and forgoing any of the profit sharing for three years (my understanding is UNO did not have to forgo the profit sharing). They agreed, and once the three years were up, poof, you have the NCHC. Because of this, I don't see Denver, CC, UND, UNO and UMD really wanting them (I am leaving SCSU out of the mix as they were originally supposed to be a member of the WCHA until they went begging to the NCHC to allow them in).

    I could see the break up fees being waved if the dominos fell right. If Mankato and BSU/ASU go to the NCHC, I could see the NCHC waiving those fees to allow Western and Miami out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigblue_dl View Post
    I think the WCHA's move, in this hypothetical depends on what happens with the Alaska schools. They have said that hockey is safe at both schools, but I don't get the impression that everyone thinks that is actually the case. If we lose one of the Alaskas, then I think the WCHA stays at 8, at least in the short term. If everyone is comfortable with the stability of both of the Alaska schools, WCHA pulls in Robert Morris.
    I donít see the WCHA going after Robert Morris. The only under 10 hour bus trips would be from Ferris & Bowling Green.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by aparch View Post
    And that's exactly what the founders of the NCHC wanted. The old WCHA minus money drains Anchorage and Tech.
    Not really. Remember St. Cloud State didn't get in until the league struck out on trying to land Notre Dame. The only reason UMD got in initially was that they wanted somebody to give them a footprint in Minnesota. Their big dream was always to be a television powerhouse, which hahahaha.
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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by MaizeRage View Post
    Not really. Remember St. Cloud State didn't get in until the league struck out on trying to land Notre Dame. The only reason UMD got in initially was that they wanted somebody to give them a footprint in Minnesota. Their big dream was always to be a television powerhouse, which hahahaha.
    And, if I remember correctly, UMD had just won the 2011 Frozen Four.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by manurespreader View Post
    That apathy argument was exactly what the Denver people used to justify the establishment of the NCHC to their fans. The attendance was dropping and games against the lower teams, such as Tech, were poorly attended. Which justified changing to a league where there would be top competition coming in every home game. Except it didn't work out that way and attendance kept dropping or at least did not improve. So I would not expect to suddenly have more fans at games. Especially if your team is in 5 th place.

    I still think it's the right decision but i'd be asking some questions before I took the leap. How many league games will there be. How will they be determined? What about the playoffs. etc. At least go in with your eyes open, since once you are in, you can't leave.
    I get that....and I think everyone else does too. My comeback would be that Denver and Mankato are two completely different situations. Denver is in a market that's very large, Mankato is not. Mankato hasn't had success in the past, Denver has. Mankato is doing better than ever before and still can't come close to filling the building, has no in conference rivalries and even though we are consistently at the top of the conference, can't generate any buzz and the fan base isn't growing while at the same time expenses are growing. It's not sustainable in the long-term.
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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by Bale View Post
    I get that....and I think everyone else does too. My comeback would be that Denver and Mankato are two completely different situations. Denver is in a market that's very large, Mankato is not. Mankato hasn't had success in the past, Denver has. Mankato is doing better than ever before and still can't come close to filling the building, has no in conference rivalries and even though we are consistently at the top of the conference, can't generate any buzz and the fan base isn't growing while at the same time expenses are growing. It's not sustainable in the long-term.
    Agreed, but it's two different problems. One is the expenses are increasing and two is the revenues aren't. I think the opponents are a smaller part of that than maybe the university thinks. Certainly lowering travel costs would be big.
    I wonder how many Nacho schools had increases and I also wonder what St Cloud's attendance is looking like the last two years. That might be something like you'd see.
    As BSU says, this might be a bigger problem for the remaining schools than it is for you guys.
    Third this is hypothetical, but it's pretty close to reality come March.
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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Hey guys. Jumping in to your conversation. I was talking with my booster club rep and it sounds like the financing for the hockey arena is complete. The building drawings are done and have been viewed by some. We are looking at 4300ish seats, but expected opening might be for the 2020-21 season. They are planning on building this next to the basketball arena, which they want to upgrade. They want to run the projects simultaneously to cut down on costs. There will be a practice rink next to the arena. So hopefully something official comes before the end of the season. On a pay board for ASU football it was said to be happening soon, but that was a post from a month ago. I know folks are getting restless.

    Everything that is said for conference leads me to believe that they still are wanting and expect it to be NCHC. Through different interviews we have heard drips and drabs for next years schedule and it is once again very solid. In a coaches interview this last week it was said 18 home and 16 road games. But I can't imagine the NCHC touching ASU until the building is ready for play.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by manurespreader View Post
    Agreed, but it's two different problems. One is the expenses are increasing and two is the revenues aren't. I think the opponents are a smaller part of that than maybe the university thinks. Certainly lowering travel costs would be big.
    I wonder how many Nacho schools had increases and I also wonder what St Cloud's attendance is looking like the last two years. That might be something like you'd see.
    As BSU says, this might be a bigger problem for the remaining schools than it is for you guys.
    Third this is hypothetical, but it's pretty close to reality come March.
    Sean Pickett keeps an online spreadsheet of average yearly attendance (AYA) history for all DI programs https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15ztbaiNKn8cvadBKa-HNyTQM1Uua3i1twK1cXpCNFqk/edit#gid=1617103401. St. Cloud AYA for the past 5 years:
    12-13: 4,413
    13-14: 4,501
    14-15: 4,398
    15-16: 4,200
    16-17: 4,297

    Nacho AYA trends for the period '13-'17 (through last season) pulled straight from his spreadsheet:
    CC: -9.3%
    Denver: -3.5%
    Miami State: -14.6%
    UMD: -4%
    UNO: -22.2%
    UND: -1%
    St. Cloud: -2.6%
    WMU: -29.6%

    I'd argue that Denver, UMD, UND, and St. Cloud are basically flat. The rest? Hmmm.....


    For comparison, here's the WCHA team's AYA for the same time period:
    UAH: -17.7%
    UA_: -43.3%
    UAA: -23.8%
    BSU: -17.5%
    BGSU: -6.4%
    FSU: -12.8%
    LSSU: +22.9%
    Tech: +.06%
    MSU: +7.5%
    NMU: -38.4%

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revs89.2 View Post
    Hey guys. Jumping in to your conversation. I was talking with my booster club rep and it sounds like the financing for the hockey arena is complete. The building drawings are done and have been viewed by some. We are looking at 4300ish seats, but expected opening might be for the 2020-21 season. They are planning on building this next to the basketball arena, which they want to upgrade. They want to run the projects simultaneously to cut down on costs. There will be a practice rink next to the arena. So hopefully something official comes before the end of the season. On a pay board for ASU football it was said to be happening soon, but that was a post from a month ago. I know folks are getting restless.

    Everything that is said for conference leads me to believe that they still are wanting and expect it to be NCHC. Through different interviews we have heard drips and drabs for next years schedule and it is once again very solid. In a coaches interview this last week it was said 18 home and 16 road games. But I can't imagine the NCHC touching ASU until the building is ready for play.
    When the Coyotes move to Houston, Gila River will be begging you to come! LOL! Great to see the ASU fans in Vegas.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by Revs89.2 View Post
    Hey guys. Jumping in to your conversation. I was talking with my booster club rep and it sounds like the financing for the hockey arena is complete. The building drawings are done and have been viewed by some. We are looking at 4300ish seats, but expected opening might be for the 2020-21 season. They are planning on building this next to the basketball arena, which they want to upgrade. They want to run the projects simultaneously to cut down on costs. There will be a practice rink next to the arena. So hopefully something official comes before the end of the season. On a pay board for ASU football it was said to be happening soon, but that was a post from a month ago. I know folks are getting restless.

    Everything that is said for conference leads me to believe that they still are wanting and expect it to be NCHC. Through different interviews we have heard drips and drabs for next years schedule and it is once again very solid. In a coaches interview this last week it was said 18 home and 16 road games. But I can't imagine the NCHC touching ASU until the building is ready for play.
    Not surprising, Nachos make the most sense for ASU for the long haul. Thanks for the update, Coach Powers!

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    FWIW, there are other options for several of the schools. Bowling Green still owns the rights to the name CCHA and there are several regional hockey schools that make sense in a new CCHA conference. I'm not saying that it will happen but I know for a fact that it has been discussed outside of these boards.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by manurespreader View Post
    That apathy argument was exactly what the Denver people used to justify the establishment of the NCHC to their fans. The attendance was dropping and games against the lower teams, such as Tech, were poorly attended. Which justified changing to a league where there would be top competition coming in every home game. Except it didn't work out that way and attendance kept dropping or at least did not improve.
    Denver couldn't even sell-out their medium size rink when they were in the stretch run of their national championship season. Nobody in Denver (other than DU alumni) cares about DU hockey. We already have the Avs and the Eagles an hour North (likely to be converted from a championship winning ECHL franchise to an AHL franchise shortly). An hour to the South you have CC and Air Force. Even being a doormat of the NCHC, CC has a stronger fan base than DU with a market that is 1/10th the size.

    Attendance at DU games (or lack there of) has nothing to do with who DU is playing against. It's just DU hockey. Denver is a pro sports town, first and foremost. College hockey is 10th best option for the sports fan on a Friday and Saturday night. Even skipping the hockey options I mentioned previously, you still have the Broncos, Nuggets, Rockies, Mammoth (lacrosse), Rapids (soccer), Outlaws (lacrosse), Barbarians (Rugby)... and eventually if you have any sports dollars or time left to spend you get to DU hockey.

    They are a small fish in a huge pond with a lot of other fish, most of which are larger with stronger fan bases. DU could play North Dakota every weekend and the only way attendance goes up is if UND brings more of their fans to town. Most DU fans likely don't even know in what cities Miami or WMU are located and they don't care. K-zoo, Houghton, Oxford, Huntsville makes no difference to them. Attendance isn't going to change up or down significantly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BGFan View Post
    FWIW, there are other options for several of the schools. Bowling Green still owns the rights to the name CCHA and there are several regional hockey schools that make sense in a new CCHA conference. I'm not saying that it will happen but I know for a fact that it has been discussed outside of these boards.
    And I have a hunch that it would include the WCHA schools south of the Mackinac Bridge only. And maybe one above the bridge located on an offramp from I-75.

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    Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

    So to be a little more specific on the travel. MSU swaps BG for Miami and Ferris for WMU. They swap the Alaska schools for the Colorado schools which is a push cost wise since Alaska schools subsidize travel and since they lose the 4 games exemption. They swap UAH for ASU.( it's likely more money to go to ASU because hotels in Phoenix are so much more expensive) They swap BSU for UND.... and they get games vs Duluth and St Cloud that are in conference instead of out of conference.Some of the time but not all of the time.
    The only other trips are to Lake State which is kind of far and Houghton which is medium far but Bus-able. The schedule would most likely be unbalanced in both scenarios. So for to me the costs are pretty close. Certainly it takes longer to go to Alaska, but it doesn't save money.
    Still I think they would do it regardless . I don't see tournament considerations being part of the decision. In both cases they have a good shot because they are a good team either way. The only thing different I see is the fewer total games if you are a nacho team which translates into limited non con games and fewer total home dates.
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