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Thread: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

  1. #81
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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    Quote Originally Posted by bucky15 View Post
    Steve, which Canadian team do you think will win the cup next?
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  2. #82
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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    I say Edmonton. I'm not sold on Andersen being the 'clutch' playoff goalie Toronto needs.

    I would not put money on either one though. I think Edmonton's window is shorter, especially given that Cam Talbot is already 30, and who knows if Nick Ellis is good enough for the NHL.
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  3. #83
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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    I pick Ottawa. Because, what the hell.

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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    I say Edmonton. I'm not sold on Andersen being the 'clutch' playoff goalie Toronto needs.

    I would not put money on either one though. I think Edmonton's window is shorter, especially given that Cam Talbot is already 30, and who knows if Nick Ellis is good enough for the NHL.
    That team could be so much better is the frustrating thing to think about. They could still have Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle :facepalm:

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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    I think we can all agree it won't be Vancouver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyplayer1015 View Post
    I think we can all agree it won't be Vancouver.
    Or Lose-ipeg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Or Lose-ipeg.
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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    That team could be so much better is the frustrating thing to think about. They could still have Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle :facepalm:
    I think the Oilers got better with the Larsson/Hall trade. They needed a dman more than a left wing who has yet to score 30 goals in a season and doesn't care to play defense. The Eberle trade was done to free up cap space for next year when the McD contract starts up. They are rolling the dice on Strome.

    The Oilers have signed some bad contracts on aging players, plus there goalie is getting old. They may be the next Canadian cup winner, but I agree the window is a short one.

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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    They didn't get better because of the Larsson Hall trade, they got better because McDavid played a full season and they got unsustainably good goaltending from a guy who was almost 30. This is why Dom L's preseason predictions have the Oilers getting more like 93 points next year and not 100. Hall is a top five player at his position and Larsson is a low end first pairing D at best. They easily could have room for these guys without the horrid Lucic contract too.

    With the D they just needed someone to get the puck to McDavid and go from there. The guy is so good he can make Kris Russell look competent and a guy like Larsson look much better than he is. The Penguins without Letang were the same way basically.
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 09-30-2017 at 10:13 AM.

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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    They didn't get better because of the Larsson Hall trade, they got better because McDavid played a full season and they got unsustainably good goaltending from a guy who was almost 30. Hall is a top five player at his position and Larsson is a low end first pairing D at best. They easily could have room for these guys without the horrid Lucic contract too.
    We have different views on Hall. I also think Larsson is better than people give him credit for. He was +15 his last year in NJ and that team was awful. He played well for the Oilers this last year and played a lot of minutes.

    Lucic is the worst of the three contracts I was thinking are bad. Sekera's will be viewed as bad in a few years and I don't get the Russell contract from the start.

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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    +\- is a worthless stat but I'm not arguing he's a bad player he's just not nearly as elite at his position (albeit a more important one).

    But yeah I forgot how bad the Russell contract extension was.

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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    +\- is a worthless stat
    Is there a way to make it less useless? Maybe normalizing it against overall team +/-?

    It seems like it should be able to tell us things, but obvs the simple metric just tells me whether the team sucks.
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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    +\- is a worthless stat but I'm not arguing he's a bad player he's just not nearly as elite at his position (albeit a more important one).

    But yeah I forgot how bad the Russell contract extension was.
    I knew you were going to say it is a worthless stat I usually agree, but when a team is that bad and a dman is +15 it says something. The Oilers don't need him to be elite, just need a stay at home dman when the rest of the team is rushing the puck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Is there a way to make it less useless? Maybe normalizing it against overall team +/-?

    It seems like it should be able to tell us things, but obvs the simple metric just tells me whether the team sucks.
    Normalizing versus team +/- would be best. I mean if a team is -22 but a guy is +15 that seems to be an indication of something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Is there a way to make it less useless? Maybe normalizing it against overall team +/-?

    It seems like it should be able to tell us things, but obvs the simple metric just tells me whether the team sucks.
    Basically you're better off using shot attempt +\- due to the sample size and (as a result) predictive nature. You're also better off normalizing that stat to account for zone starts/deployment. Also now they're using expected goals models which contain even more data than shot based metrics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    Normalizing versus team +/- would be best. I mean if a team is -22 but a guy is +15 that seems to be an indication of something.
    Not really because the sample size is far too small to be repeatable from year to year (which is basically how you know something is luck vs an actual skill) and like I said you need to account for zone starts. Like Larsson might've been +15 that year (guessing Schneider had a good year) and it wasn't that long ago that PK Subban (easily a top 10 Dman) was a minus on the year probably due to Price getting hurt and the backup being terrible.
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 09-30-2017 at 03:08 PM.

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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    Dave Strader passed away. That really sucks, man.

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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    Jagr reportedly agrees to 1 year deal with Calgary.

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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyplayer1015 View Post
    Jagr reportedly agrees to 1 year deal with Calgary.
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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    So, remember when Malcolm Subban was a trendy pick for the Vegas Golden Nights for the expansion draft? And then they didn't?

    No worries, they snatched him on waivers today.

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    Re: NHL 2017.1: We turn over a new Leaf and still find a Penguin

    Tom Wilson (WSH) gets a 4 game vacation courtesy of George Parros.

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