2020 Democratic Challengers

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

The problem with this is yes it's true with my parents generation and maybe it's true with all generations, but I'm not as certain that those assumptions all hold anymore. I think that generation just lived most of their life when the country and economy were on a clear upward trajectory for the vast majority of the time and while there was the oil related recession for a bit I'm not sure it was nearly as bad as the financial crisis we've had during our lifetime and the economy/job market/quality of life aren't seeing the significant gains they saw during their lifetime. In their lifetime there was more opportunity (for white people anyway) and so a lot of them could kinda just tune out politics and live life on cruise control which resulted in the mess we have now.

This is a very good point. I would be interested in knowing whether the generation born in, say, 1890 and hit by the Great Depression right as they should have come into their own followed the usual descent into fat middle-aged conservatism. That was a generation that watched the predations of the rich destroy America during the roaring 20s, finally ending in the explosion of the system in the Great Depression, and then built the American miracle of the middle class on Americanized socialism with the New Deal. They won WW2 with their clipboards and logistics, translating an empowered working class into the economic edge we needed to beat the fascist regimes.

Being born in 1890 is roughly analogous to being born in around 1980. The rot sets in all through your early life and is taken for granted as you reach adulthood. Just as you should be kicking into high gear in your most productive years the grinding inequality foisted on the country by the right has destroyed all of your chances. All that's missing is the last big explosion -- the Great Dumpression.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

If it is Oprah v. Trump, we will, in my lifetime, have President Camacho.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

All that's missing is the last big explosion -- the Great Dumpression.

Didn't you say big business just got their big tax breaks ("the heist")? Business won't let the explosion happen until Trump is gone; there's too much money to be made in the mean time.

Yes, I just predicted possibly the longest economic expansion in US history, but if there's money to be made it'll run.

Whoever follows better have a big mop.

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

You got a way to put the genie back in the bottle?

Yep. But Rover aint gonna like it.

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

Didn't you say big business just got their big tax breaks ("the heist")? Business won't let the explosion happen until Trump is gone

I'm sure Wall Street didn't want 1929 to happen, either.

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

If it is Oprah v. Trump, we will, in my lifetime, have President Camacho.

We already do. Tell me Dump wouldn't try to solve a food crisis by watering crops with Gatorade.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

I'm sure Wall Street didn't want 1929 to happen, either.

Wall Street didn't have control of DC in '29.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

We already do. Tell me Dump wouldn't try to solve a food crisis by watering crops with Gatorade.

Don't be stupid.

He'd use Diet Coke.

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

The starting number of liberals vary, but the approximate fall off will be to the same degree anywhere you look. Posters of a younger age on USCHO will run far more liberal than overall society - but it will see the same approximate percentage fall off as anywhere else. The fall off will be similar in 2030 as it was in 1800. Its similar in MA as it is in AL. That's the way broad based statistical trends operate.

You got a way to put the genie back in the bottle? Everything that the Republicans have done over the last 25 years has destroyed elections and Government. Trump is the pure culmination of the Republican's destruction and tear down of our Government. They get elected to destroy Government and they're doing it. Now with Trump getting elected the election process is destroyed. You had the Democrats whining on their side that Bernie got screwed, you have Donald claiming that 3 million illegal votes cost him the popular vote, and you had an electorate elect an unqualified buffoon who isn't even what he says he is (a successful businessman) to finish the job.

And you think the Democrats need to fight that by nominating John Kerry? Or Al Gore? Or Hillary Clinton again? Cause, I'll tell you what. All three of them were more qualified than the candidate they ran against. But, people wanted to have a beer with W. People hate Hillary. Now we're going to cross the chasm. Somehow there is this magical Democrat who will win because that Democrat isn't boring like Al Gore, or aloof like John Kerry, or female like Hillary Clinton. Somehow the Democrats have another Barack Obama in the tank. I have yet to see it.

If the chasm ultimately has Oprah on the other side of it sign me up. I learn my lessons.

Of course, this is correct. What's most important is that the white house resident has good intentions...and if electability is an issue, then all else is secondary.

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

The starting number of liberals vary, but the approximate fall off will be to the same degree anywhere you look. Posters of a younger age on USCHO will run far more liberal than overall society - but it will see the same approximate percentage fall off as anywhere else. The fall off will be similar in 2030 as it was in 1800. Its similar in MA as it is in AL. That's the way broad based statistical trends operate.

First of all, we have no good data before the middle of the 20th century.

And I think you need to take trix' argument into consideration. There is a difference now that we haven't had for about a century: the background condition of a rising America has been flipped by conservative policies and America is now in decline for all but the super rich. It was rational behavior for people to become complacent as they got older when they were on an up escalator. But America post-Reagan is an empty elevator shaft (just as it was designed to be by the people who lied to put those policies into place). Why would people relax into conservatism when conservatism has destroyed the American middle class that liberalism built in the first place?

The decline into social conservatism with age will still exist: the bigotries they picked up as children are eroding in the wider culture so by standing in one place they appear to move to the right as their older, even more bigoted parents and mentors die off and are replaced by younger, more tolerant people.

And the Sex Envy/Anger/Futility of the Olds will always be a factor, as they respond to their diminishing powers and attractiveness by trying to force control of women's bodies and choices and promulgate the superstitious Sex Fear that the Olds are always prey to as they near death.

But decline into economic conservatism is not a natural law. It was a rational choice as people moved into the Haves, but in a broken system which is shrinking the number of Haves, you'd expect the Olds to be just as p-ssed off and ready for reform as the young.

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

And you think the Democrats need to fight that by nominating John Kerry? Or Al Gore? Or Hillary Clinton again? Cause, I'll tell you what. All three of them were more qualified than the candidate they ran against. But, people wanted to have a beer with W. People hate Hillary. Now we're going to cross the chasm. Somehow there is this magical Democrat who will win because that Democrat isn't boring like Al Gore, or aloof like John Kerry, or female like Hillary Clinton. Somehow the Democrats have another Barack Obama in the tank. I have yet to see it.

I've posted the link numerous times but the problem with those candidates is that they clearly appealed to their donors but didn't have enough of a broad appeal with their base that is clearly not as affluent and is to the left of the donors. We'll see if they make that mistake again but we've seen more recently that the dems are moving left on various issues such as healthcare, college, marijuana, and those things are polling well. Hopefully this truly means there's a shift in strategy and they recognize this but we'll see.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

I've posted the link numerous times but the problem with those candidates is that they clearly appealed to their donors but didn't have enough of a broad appeal with their base that is clearly not as affluent and is to the left of the donors. We'll see if they make that mistake again but we've seen more recently that the dems are moving left on various issues such as healthcare, college, marijuana, and those things are polling well. Hopefully this truly means there's a shift in strategy and they recognize this but we'll see.

LOL. The argument is they weren't left enough? So the lefts "answer" to the right is to allow their candidates to get elected until an Obama comes around? And then they see that Obama talks the talk but ultimately can't walk the walk so they do it again when Hillary is the nominee? How ****ing stupid are these people? Really?

It's no wonder Trump is the President of the United States. And, apparently (thanks Susan Sarandon) exactly the President we wanted. Cause if we can't have Obama (even though he didn't accomplish **** for them) or Bernie (even though he's never accomplished anything either, we're taking our ball (vote) and going (staying) home.

It's no wonder the right controls every ****ing level of Government.

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

LOL. The argument is they weren't left enough? So the lefts "answer" to the right is to allow their candidates to get elected until an Obama comes around? And then they see that Obama talks the talk but ultimately can't walk the walk so they do it again when Hillary is the nominee? How ****ing stupid are these people? Really?

It's no wonder Trump is the President of the United States. And, apparently (thanks Susan Sarandon) exactly the President we wanted. Cause if we can't have Obama (even though he didn't accomplish **** for them) or Bernie (even though he's never accomplished anything either, we're taking our ball (vote) and going (staying) home.

It's no wonder the right controls every ****ing level of Government.

The party needs to listen to their base or they're going to lose it's that simple. Whether people are stupid for not voting or whatever is irrelevant, it's the result that matters and the party clearly screwed up in all of those elections by not listening to their base as we can see from the results.

And we're seeing real change in that regard now so on some level the party must've received the message. At least that's my hope because if they don't we'll probably still see Trump lose but it'll just result in dems losing seats again, losing the next presidential election, and the R's will hold every seat like you just said.

And heck maybe Oprah will actually do the stuff that the base wants and allow the dems to hold power, if that happens I'm all for it. I'm just skeptical.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

The party needs to listen to their base or they're going to lose it's that simple. Whether people are stupid for not voting or whatever is irrelevant, it's the result that matters and the party clearly screwed up in all of those elections by not listening to their base as we can see from the results.

And we're seeing real change in that regard now so on some level the party must've received the message. At least that's my hope because if they don't we'll probably still see Trump lose but it'll just result in dems losing seats again, losing the next presidential election, and the R's will hold every seat like you just said.

And heck maybe Oprah will actually do the stuff that the base wants and allow the dems to hold power, if that happens I'm all for it. I'm just skeptical.

The base isn't big enough to get them over the hump. The GOP has the same problem. The people that vote GOP, which is different than the 33-38% base ALWAYS Vote GOP in the end. That's why they win. Democrats are so ****ing stupid.

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

The base isn't big enough to get them over the hump.

Actually it is, they just unthinkably won in Alabama and VA despite massive voter suppression. And the dems have always had more people than the right, they just need to vote and to get that to happen you need candidates that will actually intend to deliver something meaningful.