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Thread: 2020 Democratic Challengers

  1. #621
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    Quote Originally Posted by jericho View Post
    So alot of people seem to think that Oprah's acceptance speech as the Golden Globes last night was a stump speech to launch her campaign.....
    celebrity presidents are probably going to become the norm now. It's going to be based on name recognition and personality now I guess.

  2. #622
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    celebrity presidents are probably going to become the norm now. It's going to be based on name recognition and personality now I guess.
    Sadly I agree. Hey why not Mark Cuban! He's a billionaire with a reality TV show too, right?!?!?!

    Now Jerry Springer would have been fun. Especially since he was actually an elected official in a prior life. Unfortunately he bagged a run for Ohio Gov this year.
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  3. #623
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    So, the trick isn't to counter absurd neo-conartist policies with loony lefty ones.
    I always find it ironic that UBI gets labeled as a loony lefty policy when in a more sane world, it would probably be the conservative position. The whole idea is that you know how to spend your money better than the government does.

    It should be noted that the campaign platform I was asked about was $1000/month, which Handy ballooned into $1000/week in order to go into his hysterics. Could a person live off that? No, but it's enough to bump anyone taking it up a standard deviation or two. It's like a non-BS version of W's stimulus that the right loved. You could probably even rope in the White Genocide lunatics on the right(I believe they're called 'Republicans'), because I can't tell you how many middle class white families I know that would have another kid if it wasn't so ****ing expensive.

    So how do you pay for it?

    First of all, the number of people getting it is a lot smaller than assumed earlier. Nobody at the top is taking it because you can give them a tax incentive to not take it. And nobody at the bottom is getting it because they're already getting it(and hopefully more) through welfare.

    Second, it's not fair to say we have a $4T federal budget and we'd be adding another $3-4T on top of that, because a good percentage of the latter is already covered by the former. If you say we need to be spending money on college education and healthcare, guess what? A good chunk of that UBI money is going to be spent on college education and healthcare anyway. An extra $12K a year in your pocket is $12K you don't need to take out in student loans. Again, shrinking the size of bloated government social programs, which leads to inefficiencies, is a very conservative principle.

    As far the rest, pull up any chart on wage stagnation for the majority of American workers. There's been more than enough money stolen by the rich from the lower/middle class to make up the difference. Giving some of that back strengthens the middle class back to something closer to what it once was and would do wonders for the economy. It's not millennials that are killing Applebee's. It's that it's a family restaurant which most families can't afford to eat at more than once in a blue moon.
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  4. #624
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    Iím not sure I want her negotiating with North Korea, Russia, or Iran. Sheís be better than the doofus we have now, but come on. Canít we get someone who understands and knows geopolitical issues?
    Oh come on, think of the fun. "You get a sanction, and you get a sanction, and you get a sanction...."
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  5. #625
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    So now I'm confused....

    If we're shrinking "bloated government programs" - which ones? Do you want to replace Medicare/Medicaid with UBI? Or govt assistance with student loans. Get rid of Pell Grants? How are you making people any better off if you give with one hand and take with the other? At the end of the day then, aren't these people just break even at best?

    To your point about not covering 150M people @ 1000 a week (Handy's assumption IIRC) okay. Lets cut it back. 12K a year for 100M people (less than 1/3rd of the US population). That's still 1.2T bucks. Every year. I'm also curious if UBI changes with inflation or stays at 1000.

    Finally, and no offense, but the notion that you'd get the Republicans to go along with this is fantasyland thinking. Its like when Kep thought Bernie would walk away with half of the GOP vote due to economic issues, completely ignoring that most Goopers vote the way they do based on emotional/race issues.
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  6. #626
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    Quote Originally Posted by jericho View Post
    So alot of people seem to think that Oprah's acceptance speech as the Golden Globes last night was a stump speech to launch her campaign.....
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  7. #627
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Finally, and no offense, but the notion that you'd get the Republicans to go along with this is fantasyland thinking.
    I never said they would, just that in a sane world they would. But of course....*gestures broadly toward national government*

    You wouldn't be replacing big programs, but benefits for those programs are based on income level, and with everyone however much richer, that means you'd be using less of those programs. It's not necessarily a magical cure-all that is going to drastically change everyone's lives, but it does give people greater economic flexibility to where, if they don't need it for that stuff, they have that money to spend however they want, rather than it ending up in some billionaire's hedge fund or sitting in Panama.
    Originally posted by dicaslover
    Yep, you got it. I heart Maize.

    Originally posted by Kristin
    Maybe I'm missing something but you just asked me which MSU I go to and then you knew the theme of my homecoming, how do you know one and not the other?

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    Iím not sure I want her negotiating with North Korea, Russia, or Iran. Sheís be better than the doofus we have now, but come on. Canít we get someone who understands and knows geopolitical issues?
    Stupid people are uncomfortable with smart people because it reminds them of their stupidity. That's the whole basis of "I'd like to have a beer with him."

    We've already had celebrities as presidents: the war heroes in the 19th century. Those guys weren't logistical geniuses or brilliant field commanders, they were just darlings of a voracious and sycophantic legend-building media. William Henry Harrison was the Oprah of the War of 1812, Zachary Taylor was the Kanye of the Seminole War, and James Garfield was Justin Bieber at Shiloh and Chickamauga.
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  9. #629
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    That's quite unfair to Garfield to put him in with the other two. Grant, absolutely, but Garfield was a pretty sharp guy with lots of political experience, and only ended up on the presidential as a compromise candidate.
    Originally posted by dicaslover
    Yep, you got it. I heart Maize.

    Originally posted by Kristin
    Maybe I'm missing something but you just asked me which MSU I go to and then you knew the theme of my homecoming, how do you know one and not the other?

    Western College Hockey Blog

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    Quote Originally Posted by MaizeRage View Post
    That's quite unfair to Garfield to put him in with the other two. Grant, absolutely, but Garfield was a pretty sharp guy with lots of political experience, and only ended up on the presidential as a compromise candidate.
    That may be. Grant I would not lump in with the starlets. I was looking for guys who didn't really do anything on the battlefield either but be in the right place at the right time. Grant was, militarily, legit.
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  11. #631
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    Yeah Grant actually was a War Hero...so he is above the rest. Of course none of them are as bad as Pierce. He was the Kardashian of his day! (he was literally famous for nothing)
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Yeah Grant actually was a War Hero...so he is above the rest. Of course none of them are as bad as Pierce. He was the Kardashian of his day! (he was literally famous for nothing)
    I thought Pierce was a boring political machine lifer who finally got his pay off -- like Truman, or like Mondale, Dole, or McCain if they had won. Pierce won because the opposition party had in effect disintegrated.
    It's a book of our true stories
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    We're coming rougher every time

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  13. #633
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    That may be. Grant I would not lump in with the starlets. I was looking for guys who didn't really do anything on the battlefield either but be in the right place at the right time. Grant was, militarily, legit.
    So then your argument is that Oprah was born, as a black woman in the South in the 1950s, in the right place at the right time?
    Originally posted by dicaslover
    Yep, you got it. I heart Maize.

    Originally posted by Kristin
    Maybe I'm missing something but you just asked me which MSU I go to and then you knew the theme of my homecoming, how do you know one and not the other?

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    Quote Originally Posted by MaizeRage View Post
    So then your argument is that Oprah was born, as a black woman in the South in the 1950s, in the right place at the right time?
    No. My arguments are:

    (1) Oprah is a celebrity.

    (2) The idea of celebrities being president is idiotic.

    (3) But it is not unprecedented, because

    (4) Some of the war hero presidents we had in the 19th century were idiotic celebrities in a very similar way.
    Last edited by Kepler; 01-08-2018 at 01:24 PM.
    It's a book of our true stories
    True stories that can't be denied
    It's more than true it actually happened
    We're coming rougher every time

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  15. #635
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    If Trump has proven anything, it's the need to nominate and elect someone with foreign policy experience in 2020. By the time he's done, there's going to be at least two terms' worth of damage on that front for the next POTUS to repair.
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  16. #636
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    No. My arguments are:
    Then Grant is textbook. If you want to make some sort of exception for merit based on something tangentially related to governing, Oprah wasn't exactly born on third base either.
    Originally posted by dicaslover
    Yep, you got it. I heart Maize.

    Originally posted by Kristin
    Maybe I'm missing something but you just asked me which MSU I go to and then you knew the theme of my homecoming, how do you know one and not the other?

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  17. #637
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    If Trump has proven anything, it's the need to nominate and elect someone with foreign policy experience in 2020. By the time he's done, there's going to be at least two terms' worth of damage on that front for the next POTUS to repair.
    Agree with this. God willing there's a blowback from electing a clueless loudmouth of questionable mental ability. Maybe somebody with the experience to actually handle the job and not collude with enemy foreign powers, or is that asking too much?
    Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

    Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

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  18. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaizeRage View Post
    I always find it ironic that UBI gets labeled as a loony lefty policy when in a more sane world, it would probably be the conservative position. The whole idea is that you know how to spend your money better than the government does.

    It should be noted that the campaign platform I was asked about was $1000/month, which Handy ballooned into $1000/week in order to go into his hysterics. Could a person live off that? No, but it's enough to bump anyone taking it up a standard deviation or two. It's like a non-BS version of W's stimulus that the right loved. You could probably even rope in the White Genocide lunatics on the right(I believe they're called 'Republicans'), because I can't tell you how many middle class white families I know that would have another kid if it wasn't so ****ing expensive.

    So how do you pay for it?

    First of all, the number of people getting it is a lot smaller than assumed earlier. Nobody at the top is taking it because you can give them a tax incentive to not take it. And nobody at the bottom is getting it because they're already getting it(and hopefully more) through welfare.

    Second, it's not fair to say we have a $4T federal budget and we'd be adding another $3-4T on top of that, because a good percentage of the latter is already covered by the former. If you say we need to be spending money on college education and healthcare, guess what? A good chunk of that UBI money is going to be spent on college education and healthcare anyway. An extra $12K a year in your pocket is $12K you don't need to take out in student loans. Again, shrinking the size of bloated government social programs, which leads to inefficiencies, is a very conservative principle.

    As far the rest, pull up any chart on wage stagnation for the majority of American workers. There's been more than enough money stolen by the rich from the lower/middle class to make up the difference. Giving some of that back strengthens the middle class back to something closer to what it once was and would do wonders for the economy. It's not millennials that are killing Applebee's. It's that it's a family restaurant which most families can't afford to eat at more than once in a blue moon.
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  19. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Besides, if Oprah is President...

    1. That means taking the Oath on The Secret.

    2. Dr. Oz as Surgeon General.

  20. #640
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

    Oprah v. Roseanne

    Bring it. NOW!

    I see celebrity death match style debates!

    Pay. Per. View.

    Popcorn! STAT!

    Last edited by The Sicatoka; 01-08-2018 at 10:30 PM.
    The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved.

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