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  • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

    Originally posted by Timothy A View Post
    No one ever dreamed Trump would win, they felt no need to denounce him. Too bad Hillary got complacent at the end, she's the root cause of all your angst.
    Hellllooooooo? This wasn't directed to a political party. This isn't about politics. I was questioning Christian leaders not calling out someone who was behaving like an anti-Christ. Who cares if he was supposed to be elected or not? The man has behaved in an amoral way with the support of the 'Evangelical' Right religious leaders. Inexplicably they seem espouse the leadership of a man who behaves in a way that is directly opposite what they want to require of anyone else. The other religious leaders should have been howling in outrage. That has nothing to do with political party. It has to do with reminding people what is right and wrong.

    The argument THe Religious Right makes that he'll forward their Right/fundie agenda is ridiculous. If they truly believe in Christianity they would be looking at what Christ's message was- it wasn't obsessing on abortion for one thing. He told us to feed the poor, care for the children and widows, etc.

    People are getting sucked into partisan politics to the point they are losing the ability to realize an evil person or evil intent is evil, no matter what party they are from.
    Last edited by leswp1; 12-13-2017, 05:54 PM.

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    • Back on topic, I haven't seen as much of the War on Christmas stuff this year.

      That being said, the same people who are desperate to Keep Christ in Christmas are the same people who ignore the parable of the Sheep and the Goats, and have no interest in loving justice, loving mercy, and walking humbly with their God.

      And I've figured my family out: "love your neighbor as yourself..." kinda hard to do when you're overflowing with self-loathing.
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      • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        Sanders would have won. He was just as anti-establishment as Dump and he didn't have any of Hillary's baggage.

        As for "rigged," it depends what you mean. The nomination was certainly tilted but it's not clear to me that Sanders would have won if it was completely unbiased. It's just too hard to say. A huge number of Democratic voters could see nothing but FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT and they were going to carry that banner come hell or high water. Also, a large number of Democrats have lived their whole lives under the Identity Regime and don't have the stomach or even the desire for a real fight for economic justice. While this may not have been the intention of the 1% it has certainly been a blessing for them.
        Originally posted by geezer View Post
        I think Bernie would have won based on enthusiasm and turnout. Students were as excited about him as they were for Obama. Remember even with Hilly it was very very close and he would’ve given a big boost in MI, WI, etc
        The newscaster guys and gals on NPR are very smart people. I heard an ironclad case on their podcast that convinced me Bernie would have won it all... don't remember all the details, except that they certainly convinced me of it at the time.
        So you guys think 'Murica is ready for democratic socialism?

        Based on discussions I've had, I don't.

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        • Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
          So you guys think 'Murica is ready for democratic socialism?

          Based on discussions I've had, I don't.
          I think the people who were Obama/Trump voters, which are those who swung the upper Midwest red, would've stayed blue with an old charismatic white guy to vote for. Because they clearly weren't voting based on ideology.

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          • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

            Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
            He had Romney numbers. So don't even begin to imply he was the most "beatable". It's not true.
            All the experts were laughing at his campaign, they in fact said the same thing. He unconventionally destroyed one front runner after another and gave the Republican establishment the middle finger, supposedly alienating his constituents. He was way back in all the polls until the board starting turning his color. James Carville was totally SHOCKED. No one gave him a snowball's chance in Hell of winning.
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            • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

              [QUOTE=Kepler;6571633]Sanders would have won. He was just as anti-establishment as Dump and he didn't have any of Hillary's baggage. [QUOTE]

              I wanted to like Bernie, I like guys like him, McCain and Feingold, mavericks (and compromisers) not just falling in line with their party's conventional wisdom, but he was too far left for me. Trump was also anti-establishment, but a little too out there, but with Hillary being 1000% establishment, I had to go with Trump. Had Bernie vs a conventional Republican happened, I probably went for Bernie just to spite the Republican Establishment. I have voted for Kerry & Feingold in the past, I'm not a straight party guy. I want real change, the House and Senate need to get cleaned out.
              Wisconsin Hockey: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 WE WANT MORE!
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              Come to the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
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              Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
              "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
              Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

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              • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                Lol. Hillary was too far right for most of the liberal base of the party.
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                When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

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                • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                  Originally posted by Timothy A View Post
                  No one gave him a snowball's chance in Hell of winning.
                  Not true, but whatever.

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                  • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                    Originally posted by Timothy A View Post
                    Trump was also anti-establishment, but a little too out there, but with Hillary being 1000% establishment, I had to go with Trump.

                    I want real change, the House and Senate need to get cleaned out.
                    And there it is. Not that we couldn't have guessed it, of course.

                    Just another deplorable dope.

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                    • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                      [QUOTE=Timothy A;6571759][QUOTE=Kepler;6571633]Sanders would have won. He was just as anti-establishment as Dump and he didn't have any of Hillary's baggage.

                      I wanted to like Bernie, I like guys like him, McCain and Feingold, mavericks (and compromisers) not just falling in line with their party's conventional wisdom, but he was too far left for me. Trump was also anti-establishment, but a little too out there, but with Hillary being 1000% establishment, I had to go with Trump. Had Bernie vs a conventional Republican happened, I probably went for Bernie just to spite the Republican Establishment. I have voted for Kerry & Feingold in the past, I'm not a straight party guy. I want real change, the House and Senate need to get cleaned out.
                      Maybe I can ask this question of you and get a real answer. Totally not a sarcastic question-- How did you reconcile your Faith with voting for someone who was so against everything that is Christian? I am old enough to remember tRump from way back when I was in college. Anyone with minimal ability to search can find articles of his unChristian like behavior for decades. I have heard because he repents but it is quite obvious that his behavior has persisted until the current day. He also associates, encourages, or applauds people who exhibit the same behaviours.

                      I have heard also that he was the way to achieve the religious right agenda but I do not understand using a tool that clearly espouses all the things they abhor.

                      I understand wanting change but I do not understand the ability to tolerate the evil in a man to get it. I don't understand the thought that he would evince change that would be acceptable- as a Christian person his platform was against everything that Christ tells us to do. I feel like we are watching the current day re-enactment of Jesus turning over the Temple tables, calling out the Pharisees while large parts of the populace miss the point because well, "the Law" means that it is OK to do all sorts of things that are against the Spirit of the Law or what Christ would want us to do.

                      Most recently there have been Pastors saying that Moore was acceptable with the same reasoning. I just don't get how anyone who deeply believes that God will provide can sell their soul to evil to accomplish what God is supposed to be able to do. Is that not becoming part of the Evil that is supposed to be eradicated?

                      Sorry for the long post but I have really tried to get an answer to this and no one ever answers it. THe people who didn't vote for tRump can't answer. The people who did many times are secular.

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                      • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                        Originally posted by Timothy A View Post
                        All the experts were laughing at his campaign, they in fact said the same thing. He unconventionally destroyed one front runner after another and gave the Republican establishment the middle finger, supposedly alienating his constituents. He was way back in all the polls until the board starting turning his color. James Carville was totally SHOCKED. No one gave him a snowball's chance in Hell of winning.
                        I did. Joe Scarborough did. Mika Brzezinski did. And there were others. Don't say no one thought he could win. Not true. Just because you bought into the majority of pundits does not mean that some of us knew that the polls were wrong and that people were lying when they were polled cause they didn't want to admit they were voting for Trump. The same thing happened in Minnesota with Jesse Venture. I knew it could happen. It did.

                        And you voted for him. Congratulations. You're even more responsible for what's happening now then the USCHO Centrist.
                        **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                        Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                        Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                        • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                          Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                          I did. Joe Scarborough did. Mika Brzezinski did. And there were others. Don't say no one thought he could win. Not true.
                          Michael Moore famously not only thought he could win, he guaranteed it.

                          Nate Silver's 538 model gave it a 20% chance and he cautioned it might be higher because the purple states are not independent trials -- some have linking characteristics which means they tend to move together.

                          And OH, PA, WI and MI did.

                          2016 was a bizarre election because it featured two Roy Moores running against each other. In that situation, a Roy Moore wins.
                          Last edited by Kepler; 12-14-2017, 09:47 AM.
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                          • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                            Originally posted by burd View Post
                            If God is as old as the universe, maybe he had grown a little infirm by that time and was missing things he might not have missed several billion years earlier. That might also explain why he felt it was time to get his son involved in the business.
                            Here is a link to a fascinating (if a bit technical) article in a philosophical journal about how the discovery of alien life might affect philosophy.

                            https://aeon.co/essays/how-the-disco...hange-morality

                            Cliff notes version:
                            - discovery of alien life strengthens the argument that there is a Creator Deity
                            - discovery of alien life suggests that human beings aren't all that special to the Deity; maybe we really don't matter all that much to the Deity at all and that's why we have evil as well as good.

                            In a playful mood, sometimes I suggest that we are merely a trial version while the Deity is still perfecting His/Her/Its craft....and we really are on own. In that case, we might as well be nice to each other, makes life better all around.
                            "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                            "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                            "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                            "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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                            • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                              Originally posted by leswp1 View Post
                              I was questioning Christian leaders not calling out someone who was behaving like an anti-Christ.
                              I believe, if I am not mistaken, that there is a law on the books that says if religious leaders engage in political speech in their capacity as a religious leader, that they then forfeit their tax exemption. Either you can be a religious official and be tax-exempt, or you can be political and not tax-exempt, but it is against the law to be a religious official and overtly political. I'm not sure of the exact details and limits though, just broad outlines.
                              "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                              "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                              "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                              "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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                              • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                                Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                                Here is a link to a fascinating (if a bit technical) article in a philosophical journal about how the discovery of alien life might affect philosophy.

                                https://aeon.co/essays/how-the-disco...hange-morality

                                Cliff notes version:
                                - discovery of alien life strengthens the argument that there is a Creator Deity
                                - discovery of alien life suggests that human beings aren't all that special to the Deity; maybe we really don't matter all that much to the Deity at all and that's why we have evil as well as good.

                                In a playful mood, sometimes I suggest that we are merely a trial version while the Deity is still perfecting His/Her/Its craft....and we really are on own. In that case, we might as well be nice to each other, makes life better all around.
                                Interesting site. I also recommend the 538 piece "Science Isn't Broken" which is a direct answer to the Aeon piece whose name you can probably figure out.
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