Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Somewhere in the last 50 years or so teaching and preaching about the Last 4 Things got tossed in favor of feel good.

Punishment isn't profound. It's just sadistic.

[joecct]

Punishment isn't profound. It's just sadistic.

If you spit in the face of God you get off with no punishment? This is not the NCAA.

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

If you spit in the face of God you get off with no punishment? This is not the NCAA.

The Creator of All Existence is a petty little twerp?

What's more likely: that's real, or it's the projection of some pathetic apes who will never outgrow their eggshell egos no matter how far from the trees they get?

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

I thought they uninvented Purgatory. Looking it up I guess not. What was it they changed if it wasn't purgatory

If there is purgatory I don't understand the theology of having other people get you out of your sin. If I understand it right you pay for masses, say prayers and it somehow changes things and the person gets out sooner. Your sin was your sin. How can other people buy you out of it or Masses buy you out of it? Not sarcastic/ am curious how that would make sense if you are responsible for your own actions.

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

I thought they uninvented Purgatory. Looking it up I guess not. What was it they changed if it wasn't purgatory

If there is purgatory I don't understand the theology of having other people get you out of your sin. If I understand it right you pay for masses, say prayers and it somehow changes things and the person gets out sooner. Your sin was your sin. How can other people buy you out of it or Masses buy you out of it? Not sarcastic/ am curious how that would make sense if you are responsible for your own actions.

Purgatory is still there as Heaven's mud room.

They backtracked on the necessity of the "limbo of children." joe can explain it better than I can. This is a good start.

Basically, one of the hundred or so brutal embarrassments in Catholic doctrine is because baptism is required for entry into Heaven, an unbaptized dead baby (like all those fetuses that naturally abort 13 seconds after conception) doesn't get to go on eternal play dates with Jesus. This strikes a large portion of the flock as anywhere between "the universe is unfair" which is bad because, you know, God is love, and "who is this church anyway to make up sh-t rules like this?" which is really bad because now donations are on the line.

Little by little the Church has tried to dig its way out of this marketing nightmare without also cutting off either Augustine's nuts or the money firehose by saying "maybe babies do get to go to heaven, we just can never know for sure." This is pretty easy to say in Catholicism because the entire edifice is built on "Sacred Mysteries," which is the Church's way of saying since their doctrine doesn't make logical sense then logic must be wrong. The moons are in your telescope. Original sin itself -- the Catch-22 that d-mns us eternally no matter what we ourselves have ever done -- is merely man trying to figure stuff out for himself rather than just shutting up and letting the Church, cough, I mean Jesus take the wheel.

[unofan]

If you spit in the face of God you get off with no punishment? This is not the NCAA.

If God is all powerful and all knowing, why would he let someone spit in his face if he didn't like it? I think he's got a kinky side.

[joecct]

I thought they uninvented Purgatory. Looking it up I guess not. What was it they changed if it wasn't purgatory

If there is purgatory I don't understand the theology of having other people get you out of your sin. If I understand it right you pay for masses, say prayers and it somehow changes things and the person gets out sooner. Your sin was your sin. How can other people buy you out of it or Masses buy you out of it? Not sarcastic/ am curious how that would make sense if you are responsible for your own actions.

Limbo- for the unbaptized.

Praying for the dead goes back to Maccabees. They offered sacrifices(prayers?) for the dead. If the dead were already in heaven (or hell for that matter), there would be no need to pray for them.

Once someone is in heaven, we can ask for them to intercede with God for some intention.

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Limbo- for the unbaptized.

Praying for the dead goes back to Maccabees. They offered sacrifices(prayers?) for the dead. If the dead were already in heaven (or hell for that matter), there would be no need to pray for them.

Once someone is in heaven, we can ask for them to intercede with God for some intention.

Ah. We don't have Maccabees. Pretty sure the point of the New Testament is God didn't want the burnt offerings anymore (otherwise we could be still toasting various animals outside the church) because Jesus answered for those. I still don't get how praying is going to make God ignore the bad stuff. What happened to being responsible for yourself? If God is all knowing and seeing AND he gave His only Son who died for our sins, why would prayer and intervention be necessary? Humans may mercenary Capitalists but I don't see anywhere in the Bible that says God is. I have tried to get my FIL or mr les, who are Catholic, to explain this but just hear, "Its a Mystery!!"

They also can't explain and I am lost about how we aren't supposed to have any other God before Him but people pray to Saints. Again, if God is all powerful he doesn't need a filter or assistance to work out who is important. (Which fits neatly into the description previously posted of Protestants v Catholics)

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Christians are back to whining about how oppressed they are. They have Trump in their corner and resident Head Christian Tony Perkins.

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Christians are back to whining about how oppressed they are. They have Trump in their corner and resident Head Christian Tony Perkins.

Trump is about as close to the Anti-Christ as you can get if you read the warning of what one is. Then we have the warning that the 'Believers' will be gullible

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Trump is about as close to the Anti-Christ as you can get if you read the warning of what one is. Then we have the warning that the 'Believers' will be gullible

No surprise. The least Christian people have always been the ones who put their Christianity on blast.

[geezer]

If God is all powerful and all knowing, why would he let someone spit in his face if he didn't like it? I think he's got a kinky side.

One theory on the question of free will is that God figured people would just be boring without it. So He granted free will in order to kick back and watch the shenanigans. Some people end up hating the freedom and becoming bitter because hardship comes with it; others embrace it and use it to seek after truth.

[MissThundercat]

No surprise. The least Christian people have always been the ones who put their Christianity on blast.

Like my conservative family.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

One theory on the question of free will...

This is the crux of the matter. If one doesn't auto believe that God is controlling everything it starts to make more sense. Its not just kinda free will. Its all free will.

A good part of praying for wrong doing is a personal admission. Its not that you are suddenly in the clear for the things you did in the past...its that it makes you a better person going forward. If going forward you are not sinning, then you'll be more at peace with yourself and in essence, God forgives you. You still may feel guilt etc from past actions...that is a price for past wrong doings.

If you keep sinning and are Christian, deep down you know its wrong and in all likelihood, you will feel pain/guilt - the pain resulting from knowing you did wrong - and in essence, you won't be forgiven until you stop sinning. Its pretty straightforward.

[burd]

This is the crux of the matter. If one doesn't auto believe that God is controlling everything it starts to make more sense. Its not just kinda free will. Its all free will.

A good part of praying for wrong doing is a personal admission. Its not that you are suddenly in the clear for the things you did in the past...its that it makes you a better person going forward. If going forward you are not sinning, then you'll be more at peace with yourself and in essence, God forgives you. You still may feel guilt etc from past actions...that is a price for past wrong doings.

If you keep sinning and are Christian, deep down you know its wrong and in all likelihood, you will feel pain/guilt - the pain resulting from knowing you did wrong - and in essence, you won't be forgiven until you stop sinning. Its pretty straightforward.

I don’t quite understand the last paragraph.
Sounds very bleak to me—for virtually everyone.