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  • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

    Originally posted by leswp1 View Post
    How did you reconcile your Faith with voting for someone who was so against everything that is Christian?
    The answer I've heard: "render unto Caesar those things that are Caesar's, and render unto God those things that are God's."




    Also, you overlook how the last administration took The Little Sisters of the Poor to court! It's hard to imagine how you can get more "against everything that is Christian" than that!


    It's not like either party cared at all about values that matter to people of Faith.
    Last edited by FreshFish; 12-14-2017, 01:22 PM.
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    • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

      Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
      The answer I've heard: "render unto Caesar those things that are Caesar's, and render unto God those things that are God's."
      That's not what that quote means.
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      • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

        Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
        I believe, if I am not mistaken, that there is a law on the books that says if religious leaders engage in political speech in their capacity as a religious leader, that they then forfeit their tax exemption. Either you can be a religious official and be tax-exempt, or you can be political and not tax-exempt, but it is against the law to be a religious official and overtly political. I'm not sure of the exact details and limits though, just broad outlines.
        It may be but this is not the question I asked as they are speaking out now. THey are completely allowed to call out amoral behavior without saying who to vote for. Even if we were to leave out the US leaders the Pope, The Anglican Archbishop, the Coptics, the Orthodox Church all have come out and said stuff now

        The Caesar comment- This isn't about governance but about reprehensible behaviour.

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        • Originally posted by leswp1 View Post
          It may be but this is not the question I asked as they are speaking out now. THey are completely allowed to call out amoral behavior without saying who to vote for. Even if we were to leave out the US leaders the Pope, The Anglican Archbishop, the Coptics, the Orthodox Church all have come out and said stuff now

          The Caesar comment- This isn't about governance but about reprehensible behaviour.
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          • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

            Originally posted by ShirtlessBob View Post
            INteresting article. Actually some good points (and some thoughts based on incorrect assumptions regarding stats)

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            • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

              [QUOTE=leswp1;6571933][QUOTE=Timothy A;6571759]
              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              Maybe I can ask this question of you and get a real answer. Totally not a sarcastic question-- How did you reconcile your Faith with voting for someone who was so against everything that is Christian? .
              Everyone is a sinner. Some sins are very public and some are private, but all sin is equal in God's eyes. God does forgive our sins with the caveat of repentance (of course the caveat to forgiveness is faith). Repentance means trying your level best to alter your behavior not do that sin again. Sometimes that is easy, sometimes that is very hard. If Trump is still doing the same things he did 40 years ago, is he repentant? Probably not, but we cannot judge a person's repentance from what we outwardly see. Repentance is an inward battle that sometimes the positive result is public. We should love and support each other with the battle against our public flaws and pray to help each other beat the private flaws. I think a perception that is all too common is that Christians are so pure and perfect and that ****es people off. Nothing can be further from the truth. A true Christian examines themselves, knows they are very flawed, and use's God's grace and forgives through Jesus Christ, repents and humbly serves others as a way of thanking God. So look at us as a flawed humans who is trying their best to not keep stumbling on those same rocks every day. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fail, but I'm never going to stop fighting it. Thanks for the question (that I'm not sure I totally answered) and the opportunity to express my Faith.
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              • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                Originally posted by Timothy A View Post
                but all sin is equal in God's eyes.
                So stealing a candy bar is as bad as mass murder?

                Sounds like a God worthy of devotion to me...

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                • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                  Originally posted by Timothy A View Post
                  Everyone is a sinner. Some sins are very public and some are private, but all sin is equal in God's eyes. God does forgive our sins with the caveat of repentance (of course the caveat to forgiveness is faith). Repentance means trying your level best to alter your behavior not do that sin again. Sometimes that is easy, sometimes that is very hard. If Trump is still doing the same things he did 40 years ago, is he repentant? Probably not, but we cannot judge a person's repentance from what we outwardly see. Repentance is an inward battle that sometimes the positive result is public. We should love and support each other with the battle against our public flaws and pray to help each other beat the private flaws. I think a perception that is all too common is that Christians are so pure and perfect and that ****es people off. Nothing can be further from the truth. A true Christian examines themselves, knows they are very flawed, and use's God's grace and forgives through Jesus Christ, repents and humbly serves others as a way of thanking God. So look at us as a flawed humans who is trying their best to not keep stumbling on those same rocks every day. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fail, but I'm never going to stop fighting it. Thanks for the question (that I'm not sure I totally answered) and the opportunity to express my Faith.
                  Thank you for the answer, I found it clear and I believe I understand you.

                  I read it as you saying you refuse to make any moral judgments on the candidate. May I ask then how you do choose a candidate? Do you consider the moral consequences of policy or is that also something where you defer to God?

                  A reservation: if you can never judge a candidate how do you know if they're honest and without an assumption of honesty how do you know you'll get the policy outcomes you are aiming for?

                  I have to say that while I'm not "convinced" by the argument I am sympathetic to it. I feel that politicians are chess pieces and we should move them (or sacrifice them) at will to achieve policy outcomes. I have little confidence we ever know a candidate -- we know only the facade and the marketing campaign. And if that is true then your process seems to me to be the most pragmatic one for even if we ought to judge we have no information to judge on. However that theoretical argument is a ship that hits the iceberg of Trump and sinks, because Trump is so very, very obviously a knowable moral hazard.
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                  • Originally posted by unofan View Post
                    So stealing a candy bar is as bad as mass murder?

                    Sounds like a God worthy of devotion to me...
                    Venial Sin v Mortal Sin. One does not get you on the down elevator. An unconfessed Mortal Sin is an express elevator to Hell.

                    However, we all face the Individual (Particular) Judgment at the moment of death. There we stand naked before Christ and our life is laid bare. Those who are deemed worthy are advanced to Heaven/Purgatory. The truly evil are sent to Hell.

                    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particular_judgment
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                    • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                      Originally posted by joecct View Post
                      Venial Sin v Mortal Sin. One does not get you on the down elevator. An unconfessed Mortal Sin is an express elevator to Hell.

                      However, we all face the Individual (Particular) Judgment at the moment of death. There we stand naked before Christ and our life is laid bare. Those who are deemed worthy are advanced to Heaven/Purgatory. The truly evil are sent to Hell.

                      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particular_judgment
                      Psst, joe...



















                      "Judgment" is a metaphor. "Hell" and "Heaven" are what we make ourselves in this life. "The Afterlife" is the acknowledgement that our existence ceases forever in our death, so it isn't that we go on living after death, it's that for us time ends with our death therefore we are "immortal."
                      Last edited by Kepler; 12-15-2017, 08:50 AM.
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                      • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        Psst, joe...



















                        "Judgment" is a metaphor.
                        We'll find out who's right sometime in the next 50 years.
                        CCT '77 & '78
                        4 kids
                        5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                        1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                        ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                        - Benjamin Franklin

                        Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                        I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                        • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                          Originally posted by joecct View Post
                          We'll find out who's right sometime in the next 50 years.
                          No. We really won't.
                          Cornell University
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                          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                          • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            No. We really won't.
                            I believe in an afterlife. But there is that teeny tiny bit that says, "Oops!". For you, it's the other way.
                            CCT '77 & '78
                            4 kids
                            5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                            1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                            ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                            - Benjamin Franklin

                            Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                            I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                            • Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

                              Originally posted by joecct View Post
                              I believe in an afterlife. But there is that teeny tiny bit that says, "Oops!". For you, it's the other way.
                              There is no "oops," joe. How often do you worry about not having made your sacrifices to Poseidon?

                              I know religious people actually think Pascal's Wager is prudent, but it so utterly misses the point, and so obviously, that maybe there simply are two different types of brains.
                              Cornell University
                              National Champion 1967, 1970
                              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                              • Originally posted by joecct View Post
                                Venial Sin v Mortal Sin. One does not get you on the down elevator. An unconfessed Mortal Sin is an express elevator to Hell.

                                However, we all face the Individual (Particular) Judgment at the moment of death. There we stand naked before Christ and our life is laid bare. Those who are deemed worthy are advanced to Heaven/Purgatory. The truly evil are sent to Hell.

                                https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particular_judgment
                                Timothy isn't Catholic.

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