Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

BTW, a prenup is grounds for annulment in the Catholic Church (since a prenup supposes a divorce, it signals that the parties did not intend a lifetime commitment).

Huh. That is genuinely insane.

Given that kind of, well, let's call it "reasoning," I'm a little surprised the Catholic Church considers a marriage with a prenup to be a marriage at all. They should probably condemn sex inside of a marriage with a prenup as "fornication."

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

To be fair, it is supposed to be "until death do us part". Civil divorce doesn't count in the eyes of the Catholic hierarchy, and in the old days they'd refuse you communion if you shacked up or remarried someone else (it was considered adultery). Nowadays "The Church of Nice" will wag their finger, but that's about it. It's a lot easier to get an annulment too, if you do some legwork and donate some money.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Look, the fact is that there are an awful lot of misguided, phony Christians out there according to your definition, 5mn. Do you attend an organized Christian church, or are you an independent believer who has only ever read the Gospels (since, per your belief, they're the only part of the common Biblical canon that matters)?

Yes there are. I go to a Mpls city church and I will say that most everyone I communicate with talks strictly about love and compassion. They never talk about homosexuality, abortion, etc. I'm guessing like me these culture war platforms are very low priority...and due to that, I believe they inherently get the concepts of Jesus first. Of course, I know many 'misguided' Christians also. And this is a guess, but it might be tied to political persuasion...as in conservatives focus on homosexuality, etc first. From all my interactions, I do believe that this group is putting their personal feelings ahead of Jesus. That's my opinion.

I interpret 5mn's statements of "fact" to be nothing less (or more) than the tenets of his religion. That is the hallmark of religion (or magic): believing makes it so.

We joke, but think of how awful it must be to have all that riding on your constant belief. Dr. Mrs. says she can't sleep in the car passenger seat because if she falls asleep we will veer into oncoming traffic. Her concentration is the air traffic beam we fly on. Now imagine that pressure, 24/7, and with your immortal soul riding on it.

I've talked plenty about how I think the bible, Christianity, etc. provides a pretty awesome life tool for many - this in terms of both helping improving one's life and helping that take action on their updated morality. Here you question that. Let me put some meat to those bones; Pew put out a survey last year:

Improving one's life: As a percentage, one-third more highly religious are 'very happy with the way things are going in life' than those that are not highly religious (40% vs. 29%).
Taking action on morality: As a percentage, one-half more highly religious volunteer and donate time/money/goods than do those that are not highly religious (45% vs. 28% and 65% vs. 41% respectively)

All that pressure of afterlife doesn't really seem to be having much of an effect.

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

I've talked plenty about how I think the bible, Christianity, etc. provides a pretty awesome life tool for many - this in terms of both helping improving one's life and helping that take action on their updated morality. Here you question that.

I have never questioned that. As I have said a billion times, and as you have ignored each time, if believing in God or little green men or Russell's teapot makes you treat other human beings better then PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep those beliefs.

You are questioned here because you make endless inane and ignorant statements about what being a non-believer means.

On matters of your faith you are the expert. On matters of other theists' faiths you seem to be pretty weak and ignorant, as they have told you, but honestly we're talking about different crayons so I pay it no mind. On matters of theism vs atheism you have shown yourself a fool.

That just can't be that hard to understand. Nobody cares what you believe; nobody is trying to suppress you. Your faith is like somebody's baby pictures on Facebook -- vitally important and endlessly fascinating to you and no doubt a source of great joy and meaning. To the rest of us, well... internet lint.

If you stopped making mindless statements about what being an atheist is driven by your empty-headed, lofo agenda, nobody would bother you ever again.

[joecct]

To be fair, it is supposed to be "until death do us part". Civil divorce doesn't count in the eyes of the Catholic hierarchy, and in the old days they'd refuse you communion if you shacked up or remarried someone else (it was considered adultery). Nowadays "The Church of Nice" will wag their finger, but that's about it. It's a lot easier to get an annulment too, if you do some legwork and donate some money.

Money is not necessary. And annulment in this country are fairly quick (year or so). However in a lot of other countries (Argentina for example), it can take a looonnnnggggg time.

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Money is not necessary. And annulment in this country are fairly quick (year or so).

I dated a woman going through an annulment. It was a laughable process right out of the Middle Ages. That was 25 years ago and I have heard it is more streamlined now, but good lord the Church has some very silly ideas about itself.

[MissThundercat]

I have never questioned that. As I have said a billion times, and as you have ignored each time, if believing in God or little green men or Russell's teapot makes you treat other human beings better then PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep those beliefs.

You are questioned here because you make endless inane and ignorant statements about what being a non-believer means.

On matters of your faith you are the expert. On matters of other theists' faiths you seem to be pretty weak and ignorant, as they have told you, but honestly we're talking about different crayons so I pay it no mind. On matters of theism vs atheism you have shown yourself a fool.

That just can't be that hard to understand. Nobody cares what you believe; nobody is trying to suppress you. Your faith is like somebody's baby pictures on Facebook -- vitally important and endlessly fascinating to you and no doubt a source of great joy and meaning. To the rest of us, well... internet lint.

If you stopped making mindless statements about what being an atheist is driven by your empty-headed, lofo agenda, nobody would bother you ever again.

Then again, I've heard this from my dad:

Stalin was an atheist.
Stalin murdered a lot of people.
Therefore, all atheists are murderers.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

I have never questioned that. As I have said a billion times, and as you have ignored each time, if believing in God or little green men or Russell's teapot makes you treat other human beings better then PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep those beliefs.

Umm...my post was a direct reply to your post:

Believers are caught in a Catch-22. Treating their beliefs as just another of thousands of competing theories is sacrilegious and will anger Zeus, or at the least means you aren't playing the game right.

We joke, but think of how awful it must be to have all that riding on your constant belief. Dr. Mrs. says she can't sleep in the car passenger seat because if she falls asleep we will veer into oncoming traffic. Her concentration is the air traffic beam we fly on. Now imagine that pressure, 24/7, and with your immortal soul riding on it.

You are questioned here because you make endless inane and ignorant statements about what being a non-believer means.

On matters of your faith you are the expert. On matters of other theists' faiths you seem to be pretty weak and ignorant, as they have told you, but honestly we're talking about different crayons so I pay it no mind. On matters of theism vs atheism you have shown yourself a fool.

If you stopped making mindless statements about what being an atheist is driven by your empty-headed, lofo agenda, nobody would bother you ever again.

My position is that not believing in God is an absence of belief in God. I don't think that concept is that difficult to comprehend. And frankly, that was me for decades. OTOH, I feel pretty comfortable that I also understand what belief is in terms of Christianity. It is a solid understanding of both sides that gives me decent credibility to talk about the relationship - and when I do, the concepts typically to the point. If that makes you upset, I'm bummed about that. But this is a message board and its more valuable discussing the concepts than a simple copy and pasting of the umpteenth article this month that focuses on an individual behaving badly.

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Money is not necessary. And annulment in this country are fairly quick (year or so). However in a lot of other countries (Argentina for example), it can take a looonnnnggggg time.

Is that across the board or area/diocese specific? I am pretty sure around here it takes a fair amount of $ to get things moving rapidly and a canon specialist (I forget what they are called) to help expedite- not free. Of course I may be wrong. I sure hope so. The whole annulment thing seems arbitrary and man driven, not based on anything Jesus said or did. I was all done when a friend tried to get an annulment and they wanted her soon to be hubby to pay for the process of getting one too. He was Jewish. They didn't recognize his religious sacraments but were quite willing to make them pay to annul something that wouldn't be acknowledged (because you needed a Catholic wedding to be legit). After trying for some time she left the church, got married and that was that.

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

{disingenuous polemic omitted} But this is a message board and its more valuable discussing the concepts than a simple copy and pasting of the umpteenth article this month that focuses on an individual behaving badly.

The last sentence is true, but face it -- when Thumpers set themselves up as privileged arbitrars of morality they are inviting their hypocritical balloons to be popped by stories about their fellow Very Serious Religious Leaders who are kid diddlers, rapists, thieves, and violate every commandment every day of their lives and twice on Sundays, and how the flock crawls on glass to excuse them.

When you make statements that you are The Way, reality is gonna sweep the leg. Know how you can avoid that? Stop talking about stuff you know nothing about and tend to your own jungle hut shibboleths and totems. That's your safe space.

This is hardy the first place that has answered the pious imbecilities of Tartuffe with a horse laugh. That's the price of basking in reflected Omniscience.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Money is not necessary. And annulment in this country are fairly quick (year or so). However in a lot of other countries (Argentina for example), it can take a looonnnnggggg time.

Fair enough. In the case of more conservative countries like Argentina, I don't think it's unfair to suggest that being rich enough to make a sizable donation might help bump your annulment proceedings to the top of the list.

[joecct]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Merry Christmas, Queen fans.

https://youtu.be/IxvMkSKRWOA

[MissThundercat]

Krampus comes tonight.

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Krampus comes tonight.

Promises, promises.

[MissThundercat]

Promises, promises.

I wish. So many brats would be taken away.