College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!

[Slap Shot]

Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!

Does it matter that he's as of yet only accused? Just tossing that out there.

[alfablue]

Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!

Why should he have to fire him? The only reason he "has" to fire him is if he thinks it reflects poorly on him or the University. Are employers required to fire all "wife beaters?"

Yes- this is OSU's official policy https://hr.osu.edu/wp-content/uploads/policy705.pdf

Where the consequence is

II. Consequences of Policy Violations
A. Individuals found to engage in behavior in violation of this policy will be subject to corrective action, up to and
including termination, in accordance with university policies or rules. Criminal charges may also be filed, as
appropriate.
B. The university will take reasonable steps to respect the confidentiality and autonomy of the victim in a reported
situation of workplace violence, to the extent allowed by law.
C. Perpetrators of workplace violence may be required to seek and successfully complete training, assessment,
counseling, treatment and/or referrals.

And there's also this https://hr.osu.edu/wp-content/uploads/policy115.pdf

where

Domestic violence Conduct that would meet the definition of a felony or misdemeanor crime of violence committed by the
complainant’s current or former spouse or intimate partner, a person with whom the complainant shares a
child in common, a person who is or has cohabitated with the complainant as a spouse or intimate partner,
or individual similarly situated to a spouse under domestic or family violence law, or anyone else protected
under the domestic or family violence law of the jurisdiction in which the offense occurred. An individual
need not be charged with or convicted of a criminal offense to be found responsible for domestic violence
pursuant to this policy.

(the highlight is mine)

Since that falls under the sexual assault policy, this applies to everyone, except a handful with specific reasons (mostly clergy or specialized doctors):

C. All university employees, except those exempted by legal privilege of confidentiality or expressly identified as a
confidential reporter, have an obligation to report incidents of sexual assault. Any employee who receives a
disclosure of a sexual assault or becomes aware of information that would lead a reasonable person to believe that
a sexual assault may have occurred involving anyone covered under this policy, must report all known
information immediately.

There's a lot more there, but it seems to me that if Meyer knew in 2015, and did nothing, he's in big trouble.

[SJHovey]

Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!

We will be finding out whether it is mandatory to report crimes or not. Any more, I don't think it's really up to your opinion- most states have decided that people in certain positions are required to report it.

Whether you agree with that or not may be a moot point.

And lets not equate a significant policy violation vs. a crime here, the worst think that will happen to Meyer is that he looses his job. He's not going to jail.

It's also interesting that Meyer being quiet about spousal abuse flies in the face of what he tells his athletes- to not hit women.

It has nothing to do with my opinion. I suspect Ohio is pretty much like every other state. Certain people who hold certain positions must report abuse of minors or adults who are considered "vulnerable", such as the elderly. The state may also require doctors or health workers to do certain things if they suspect domestic violence involving one of their patients. But there is no general employer responsibility to report any of their employees who they know or suspect are involved in domestic violence, either as a perpetrator or victim.

The purpose of my posts here today has been solely to suggest that you put yourself into the position of employer or supervisor who learns or suspects that an employee is committing domestic violence. Should you be fired or punished if you yourself don't fire or punish that perpetrator?

[alfablue]

Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!

It has nothing to do with my opinion. I suspect Ohio is pretty much like every other state. Certain people who hold certain positions must report abuse of minors or adults who are considered "vulnerable", such as the elderly. The state may also require doctors or health workers to do certain things if they suspect domestic violence involving one of their patients. But there is no general employer responsibility to report any of their employees who they know or suspect are involved in domestic violence, either as a perpetrator or victim.

The purpose of my posts here today has been solely to suggest that you put yourself into the position of employer or supervisor who learns or suspects that an employee is committing domestic violence. Should you be fired or punished if you yourself don't fire or punish that perpetrator?

Funny that your opinion doesn't matter a few posts later when you said you didn't think people should need to report that. Was that a factual based on Ohio law or your opinion?

BTW, you should read OSU's policies. It's pretty clear that he has to report it. So it's not even a state thing. Again, the worst that can happen to Meyer is that he will be fired. Big deal. Minor in the face of being choked and hit by your spouse.

[SJHovey]

Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!

Funny that your opinion doesn't matter a few posts later when you said you didn't think people should need to report that. Was that a factual based on Ohio law or your opinion?

BTW, you should read OSU's policies. It's pretty clear that he has to report it. So it's not even a state thing. Again, the worst that can happen to Meyer is that he will be fired. Big deal. Minor in the face of being choked and hit by your spouse.

Buy you are equating what the law requires with what OSU (the employer) may require.

I am absolutely correct in stating that nothing in the law requires Meyer to report this. If you can find something in Ohio law to the contrary, I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

As I said in my prior posts, employers can adopt policies or positions, or make decisions to fire employees who engage in bad behavior outside the workplace if they think it puts them in a bad light. That's the whole point of the OSU policies. They adopt those policies so that if they think the behavior of the assistant coach wife abuser, or the head coach who knows about but says nothing, brings shame to the University, they can fire that coach and then defend the breach of contract or other claim by say, "we had a policy." But the University can just as easily decide it doesn't want to fire the coach, and there is nothing that can be done about it.

[jerphisch]

Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!

Buy you are equating what the law requires with what OSU (the employer) may require.

I am absolutely correct in stating that nothing in the law requires Meyer to report this. If you can find something in Ohio law to the contrary, I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

As I said in my prior posts, employers can adopt policies or positions, or make decisions to fire employees who engage in bad behavior outside the workplace if they think it puts them in a bad light. That's the whole point of the OSU policies. They adopt those policies so that if they think the behavior of the assistant coach wife abuser, or the head coach who knows about but says nothing, brings shame to the University, they can fire that coach and then defend the breach of contract or other claim by say, "we had a policy." But the University can just as easily decide it doesn't want to fire the coach, and there is nothing that can be done about it.

No one is arguing anything about what the law requires. We are pointing out that Meyer is going to be fired for being a POS because tOSU has specific policies in place that say don't be a POS.

[Handyman]

Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!

Why should he have to fire him? The only reason he "has" to fire him is if he thinks it reflects poorly on him or the University. Are employers required to fire all "wife beaters?"

Required? No. But seeing as Meyer makes it a point to emphasize that he teaches his players how to respect women it kinda seems like it would be important.

Plus his contract (and his wife's) required him to report all of this which is why he is now in CYA mode. The second the wife said he told Meyer's wife about the abuse the Meyers' were in trouble. They could have been fired for cause meaning he loses the rest of the money.

It isnt about the law...no one is saying Meyer should be charged. IT is about the policies of the school. He wont be fired though because football matters too much. The school will back him up that he reported it even though that will make them look bad.

[unofan]

Why should he have to fire him? The only reason he "has" to fire him is if he thinks it reflects poorly on him or the University. Are employers required to fire all "wife beaters?"

You don't think continuing to employ a wife beater is de facto reflecting poorly on the employer?

[alfablue]

Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!

Buy you are equating what the law requires with what OSU (the employer) may require.

I am absolutely correct in stating that nothing in the law requires Meyer to report this. If you can find something in Ohio law to the contrary, I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

As I said in my prior posts, employers can adopt policies or positions, or make decisions to fire employees who engage in bad behavior outside the workplace if they think it puts them in a bad light. That's the whole point of the OSU policies. They adopt those policies so that if they think the behavior of the assistant coach wife abuser, or the head coach who knows about but says nothing, brings shame to the University, they can fire that coach and then defend the breach of contract or other claim by say, "we had a policy." But the University can just as easily decide it doesn't want to fire the coach, and there is nothing that can be done about it.

No, I am not- I was speculating, just like you were, on what Ohio law was. I didn't know one way or another if he was legally required to report. And I don't think you do either.

And, for the most part, that became moot when I looked up OSU's policies, and found that they have a LOT of bearing to fire him. And if they don't, for the sake of having a good football program, that's a sad way to brush off your own policies.

If the president of OSU wants to stand in front of the press, and answer that question, well, that will be interesting.

I never claimed that Meyer broke any rules. And I have clearly pointed out that the very worst that will happen to him is getting fired. If he knew that his assistant choked his wife, and hit his wife, and clearly violated university policy, and did nothing about it- then I have no problem of him losing his job.

If they do nothing, and people start to look at OSU like they do PSU, well, they have do deal with that. And it's sad to me that we, as a society, value entertainment that much. That is all football is- entertainment.

[First Time, Long Time]

Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!

https://twitter.com/AriWasserman/sta...066792961?s=19

[busterman62]

Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!

No, I am not- I was speculating, just like you were, on what Ohio law was. I didn't know one way or another if he was legally required to report. And I don't think you do either.

And, for the most part, that became moot when I looked up OSU's policies, and found that they have a LOT of bearing to fire him. And if they don't, for the sake of having a good football program, that's a sad way to brush off your own policies.

If the president of OSU wants to stand in front of the press, and answer that question, well, that will be interesting.

I never claimed that Meyer broke any rules. And I have clearly pointed out that the very worst that will happen to him is getting fired. If he knew that his assistant choked his wife, and hit his wife, and clearly violated university policy, and did nothing about it- then I have no problem of him losing his job.

If they do nothing, and people start to look at OSU like they do PSU, well, they have do deal with that. And it's sad to me that we, as a society, value entertainment that much. That is all football is- entertainment.

I certainly don't want to defend Meyer but.......the policies you have sited relate to the "campus" of tOSU. Policy 7.05 is titled "Workplace Violence" and the Sexual Misconduct Policy clearly states:

This policy applies to alleged sexual misconduct that takes place on university property or at universitysponsored events, regardless of their location

I am not a lawyer but I am pretty sure that one worth his/her fee could shoot a few holes in your theory that Urban violated these policies. I would however bet the farm that, in all likelihood, he has a morals clause that they can utilize if they choose to.

[SJHovey]

You don't think continuing to employ a wife beater is de facto reflecting poorly on the employer?

Generally speaking, no. For certain jobs, of course. If the accused drives forklift for Home Depot, does (or should) anyone care? If you’re working as a local prosecuting attorney it probably matters greatly to the employer. I suspect more of us fall in the former than the latter.

[MavHockey14]

Huh?

Unless someone deleted a post I’m not sure what you’re referring to?

Same..

[MavHockey14]

Re: College Football 2017-18: Now with more CTE!

Why should he have to fire him? The only reason he "has" to fire him is if he thinks it reflects poorly on him or the University. Are employers required to fire all "wife beaters?"

It’s putting winning ahead of doing the right thing. A coach is going home and abusing his wife, and Meyer knows about multiple allegations of this, and lies about it, and only now admits he knew as it became public due to McMurphy’s story.

Urban Meyer enabled an abuser — Coach Smith was given the reward of a healthy salary and the ability to coach, all while not being punished for beating his wife. He made that behavior okay as their was no consequence.

Urban Meyer preaches respect for women, yet knowingly allows a domestic violence abuser stay on his staff and coach 18-22 year olds? Had some of his closest confidants reach out to the vicious and urge to not press charges?

It’s disgusting behavior by Meyer and he should be fired. Winning a **** game shouldn’t be put ahead of the safety of a woman in her home.

[LynahFan]

Generally speaking, no. For certain jobs, of course. If the accused drives forklift for Home Depot, does (or should) anyone care? If you’re working as a local prosecuting attorney it probably matters greatly to the employer. I suspect more of us fall in the former than the latter.

Be glad you don't work at my hypothetical Home Depot - I would absolutely fire any abuser I knew about, in any job. Why take the risk that those violent tendencies might spill over to the workplace someday? It's a lot easier to find a new forklift driver than to deal with years of lawsuits over my negligence in keeping a known sociopath in the workplace. No way that guy is so awesome at driving a forklift that it is worth the risk.