POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

[Drew S.]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Yes. He certainly is.

It's already begun on all the RW sites -- this is the fault of the counter-protesters, it's the fault of "Obama who divided this country" (?), and of course that's not counting the Flaggy Bannon/Jones sites and their "false flag with actors to shut down our freedumbs."

Your position is clear from your posts. Now this, where you play the Fox/Trump concern "both sides do it" game. Be gone.

I've posted this a few times today, and I'm not sure why it is so difficult to understand, but I'm not trying to absolve the white supremacists of blame. They're despicable and never should have been allowed to even have the event in the first blame. They deserve tons of blame, scorn, and any other bad thing that can go their way. None of that however would let people who were there solely to provoke violence off the hook. I'm not trying to claim all the counter protestors were up to no good either, I'm sure the vast majority were there for all the right reasons. Is any of this not clear now? Can you not see that there could be despicable people on both sides of the fence?

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

I've posted this a few times today, and I'm not sure why it is so difficult to understand, but I'm not trying to absolve the white supremacists of blame. They're despicable and never should have been allowed to even have the event in the first blame. They deserve tons of blame, scorn, and any other bad thing that can go their way. None of that however would let people who were there solely to provoke violence off the hook. I'm not trying to claim all the counter protestors were up to no good either, I'm sure the vast majority were there for all the right reasons. Is any of this not clear now? Can you not see that there could be despicable people on both sides of the fence?

An act of domestic terrorism occurred yesterday, in which a woman was murdered, and your response to it was, "Hey remember the Euros where it turned out it was actually the other guys' fault?"

So no, it's not clear. And adding a one sentence disclaimer to the end of every post to try to be on both sides doesn't make it any clearer.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

I've posted this a few times today, and I'm not sure why it is so difficult to understand, but I'm not trying to absolve the white supremacists of blame. They're despicable and never should have been allowed to even have the event in the first blame. They deserve tons of blame, scorn, and any other bad thing that can go their way. None of that however would let people who were there solely to provoke violence off the hook. I'm not trying to claim all the counter protestors were up to no good either, I'm sure the vast majority were there for all the right reasons. Is any of this not clear now? Can you not see that there could be despicable people on both sides of the fence?

You're basically attempting to equate a few counter-protesters who turned spray cans into weak flamethrowers and torched a few Nazi & Confederate flags, with neo-Nazis committing assault with a weapon, and murder.

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

I understand what Drew is saying, and like Fade said, it's a bad comparison. As many here have said, words are one thing. Actions are another.

[geezer]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Clearly terrorism like yesterday's armed "protest" isn't free speech, and needs to be stopped. By "the authorities" and all our condemnation.
But... modernity needs to be open to converts also. I'm uncomfortable with the way twitter is yelling **** at nearly every conservative who openly speaks out against racism. Decency is not a "right" granted only to the right "kind of people" who have somehow earned credibility. There are decent conservatives looking for the correct way forward and they should be supported. Hate cannot drive out hate. You guys see the pic of the black cop guarding the confederates yesterday? That pic said a lot. Most of the child Nazis probably need a hug more than anything.

[aparch]

You're basically attempting to equate a few counter-protesters who turned spray cans into weak flamethrowers and torched a few Nazi & Confederate flags, with neo-Nazis committing assault with a weapon, and murder.

https://m.facebook.com/briancalley/p...pe=3&source=48

The Pulitzer winners so far this year just from this event.

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Yes. He certainly is.

It's already begun on all the RW sites -- this is the fault of the counter-protesters, it's the fault of "Obama who divided this country" (?), and of course that's not counting the Flaggy Bannon/Jones sites and their "false flag with actors to shut down our freedumbs."

Your position is clear from your posts. Now this, where you play the Fox/Trump concern "both sides do it" game. Be gone.

It is no different than the people who blamed the Black Marchers for getting beat up by White Cops and on lookers cause they dared walk down the street. Of course at least they didnt pretend they were being fair and just admitted they hated Blacks.

They are right though, Obama did divide us just not in the way they think he did. Prior to Obama the racist factions were underground and were only tacitly part of the Right Wing. The Second Ole' Darky got all uppity and got 'imself elected Prezdent they came out in full force. Now they dont even hide, they elected a bigot and his Klan of Racists to office and they are emboldened. And now, they have a National "News" outlet backing them not just WKKK Local News in Bama!

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Unless the person espousing hatred and bigotry is actually committing or encouraging violence, I would hope most of us feel that the right to free speech must be upheld. But one thing we don't need to do is give them more airtime.

This part. All of this part.

At the same time, anyone who wants to counter protest to declare that the other person's opinion is not shared should be allowed too. And the original group should be grown up enough to allow other people their right to free speech and free assembly as well.

Getting shouted down is still allowing you to speak. Having an opinions means that other people may have a different opinion.

You can't respond to counter protests with violence. But that pattern of physical bullying was well laid out in dumps campaign. Happened a few times, and other than a few words, was never really stopped. I thought it was more encouraged.

BTW, I do remember that Brent was very, very upset at the protests in Minneapolis, I don't recall any real threats- but that they should not be allowed to protest like they did. It would taking some digging, but I clearly remember that.

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

They are right though, Obama did divide us just not in the way they think he did. Prior to Obama the racist factions were underground and were only tacitly part of the Right Wing. The Second Ole' Darky got all uppity and got 'imself elected Prezdent they came out in full force. Now they dont even hide, they elected a bigot and his Klan of Racists to office and they are emboldened. And now, they have a National "News" outlet backing them not just WKKK Local News in Bama!

It didn't help that R's ONLY goal was to stop President Obama. First from getting elected a second time and then getting anything done. Other than that, they had no agenda. So the racist got a lot of "acceptance" thanks to R's in congress. Again, they only have themselves to blame. assuming they actually feel bad about this.

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

An act of domestic terrorism occurred yesterday, in which a woman was murdered, and your response to it was, "Hey remember the Euros where it turned out it was actually the other guys' fault?"

So no, it's not clear. And adding a one sentence disclaimer to the end of every post to try to be on both sides doesn't make it any clearer.

IMHO anyone who calls it anything but terrorism loses all credibility on the term. There is no difference between what this terrorist did and what a Suicide Bomber does. The only difference is we cant declare war on the White Terrorists because we already fought a war over that.

And as for the "well perhaps the Anti-Protesters caused this" BS...a bunch f self identifying racists are marching through town with guns and torches (in flipping Virginia!) you think that might trigger something? I said it yesterday, if BLM did the same thing all hell breaks lose and some of the BLMers would be dead right now. Hell the cops would have killed a few just for having guns and daring to be Black. And if they dared block traffic some Online Justice Warriors would be hoping that someone threw rocks at them or drove through the protests because how dare they?!?!? Havent heard that anywhere about this one though...

[Drew S.]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Clearly terrorism like yesterday's armed "protest" isn't free speech, and needs to be stopped. By "the authorities" and all our condemnation.
But... modernity needs to be open to converts also. I'm uncomfortable with the way twitter is yelling **** at nearly every conservative who openly speaks out against racism. Decency is not a "right" granted only to the right "kind of people" who have somehow earned credibility. There are decent conservatives looking for the correct way forward and they should be supported. Hate cannot drive out hate. You guys see the pic of the black cop guarding the confederates yesterday? That pic said a lot. Most of the child Nazis probably need a hug more than anything.

I'm convinced divisiveness is the biggest issue we face right now. This thread is a great example of how people force their preconceived narratives on others. How we fix it is completely beyond me.

Along the lines of your post there was a great article in today's NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/12/o...white-men.html

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

https://m.facebook.com/briancalley/p...pe=3&source=48

The Pulitzer winners so far this year just from this event.

Christ read the comments...lots of White People blaming the Anti-Protesters. So Free Speech matters for the White People marching to protect the statue of a traitor but not for the people who think those people are wrong. Gee...how convenient.

Since we know The South doesnt have the balls to actually leave again (since we would let them and watch them starve) can we just kick them out. These people arent American, they have no love for this country. Let the Slave states be a White Flight Haven...in a decade they will so broke we could buy them back for pennies on the dollar.

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

There were 4 arrests total I believe. Compare that to your average BLM march or even Occupy.

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

At the same time, anyone who wants to counter protest to declare that the other person's opinion is not shared should be allowed too. And the original group should be grown up enough to allow other people their right to free speech and free assembly as well.

Getting shouted down is still allowing you to speak. Having an opinions means that other people may have a different opinion.

You can't respond to counter protests with violence. But that pattern of physical bullying was well laid out in dumps campaign. Happened a few times, and other than a few words, was never really stopped. I thought it was more encouraged.

BTW, I do remember that Brent was very, very upset at the protests in Minneapolis, I don't recall any real threats- but that they should not be allowed to protest like they did. It would taking some digging, but I clearly remember that.

Brent was upset about the protests but he just wanted them arrested for the weak *** crime of blocking traffic. It was other people on GPL (and I wont name them cause I think they post here too) who implied or outright said (when there was a protest at the U) that if he was there he would just step on the gas and go right through them. Saw even more of it on Facebook...yeah heaven forbid you be stuck in traffic...how dare them uppity Negroes want justice who do they think they are I have to get home and watch SPORTS!!!!

The rest of your post is dead on though. The First Amendment either counts for both sides or it counts for neither. Violence automatically negates your free speech though. Once you act violently you lose that right.

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

I was indeed upset at the protesters blocking freeways, etc. I don't care what the protesters were protesting, don't block a friggin' freeway. I won't shy down from that opinion.

If the alt-right groups blocked a freeway, I'd hold the same opinion. Arrest 'em and charge 'em.