POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

[jerphisch]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

true true true true as conjecture conjecture conjecture

conjecture:
noun
1.the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.

We have seen the actual email.

[mookie1995]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

conjecture:
noun
1.the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.

We have seen the actual email.

really?

[jerphisch]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

really?

Yes. Unless your position is that Jr. released a fake email in order to make himself look guilty when the real email showed him to be innocent? I mean I know he's stupid, but that seems a bit much.

[mookie1995]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

Yes. Unless your position is that Jr. released a fake email in order to make himself look guilty when the real email showed him to be innocent? I mean I know he's stupid, but that seems a bit much.

that would have been covered in mookie's "true" section.

mookie thought the arab times missed a story about an email popping up from sputnik stating they supported this or that.

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

It's interesting how many times people are making it equivalent that lying about an affair is the same as working with another country to influence an election.

If lying about an affair is that bad, shouldn't little newt be in prison?

And we have another article that does try to downplay the higher problem if russian influence. Again, to the dump supporters out there, is it REALLY ok that the russians tried to influence our election? Regardless of how dumps morons were involved or not.

If it was anyone in the EU, you'd be screaming bloody murder, and worrying about the New World Order. But for russia- crickets. What's up with that?

What planet are you on? No one cares about anything beyond our borders. America First!!!11!1! So no matter what it doesn't matter.

I think people would care more if there was some real evidence of collusion. Maybe more will come out in time but so far it has been pretty underwhelming.

Sometimes you post things that make me think and stimulate dialogue and then you post something like this. Makes me think of a kid who is scared of Mickey Mouse at Disney. Parents say there is a man in there, it isn't really Micky. Kid has a moment of insight, understands that it isn't scary if there is a man inside. In minutes the only thing they retain is it isn't scary. They forget the man is in there.

Exactly what do you think you should see to make you not concerned. The vast majority of sentient people can see there is something to be concerned about. The entire intelligence community has said this is a real thing and we should be very concerned. They actually agree with each other (something that should make this classified as a miracle). During the recent hearings even the GOP stalwarts on the committee admitted there was reason to be concern. The entire Legislature minus 3 passed sanctions and went against Trump. They passed a resolution that will prevent him from replacing the AG while they are out on break to make sure Mueller can continue without being fired. They have convened 2 Grand Juries- not exactly easy to do without some sort of evidence. There is also evidence this has happened in Europe. I know anything outside the border usually doesn't count but this goes to establishing a pattern.

Seems like those who support the GOP and/Trump can't deal with the concerns because that might be seen as believing the real enemy- the Dems. Even tho the GOP controls both House and Senate and has voted to protect the special Prosecutor and has convened a number of committees to investigate. At some point the smoke coming out the windows and the doors becomes so intense you have to entertain the possibility there is fire inside. Whether you totally believe it or think there is only a very powerful smoke machine (unlikely) you should at least prepare for response to fire when that fire is more likely than not. That they messed with the elections isn't in doubt. That we should be figuring out how to prevent incursion again isn't in doubt. Like any disease the more you know about it the better you can treat it but you don't sit back and watch the disease go nuts while you wait for the culture results. You throw the most likely antibiotic at it. Or maybe 2 and an antifungal /antiviral if it is really bad. You certainly don't throw away the culture before it has been incubating for a week.

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

I think people would care more if there was some real evidence of collusion. Maybe more will come out in time but so far it has been pretty underwhelming.

So IF there is no collusion, you are 100% ok with the russians trying to influence the election, then, right? Their hacking into our system, which IS illegal, is ok. And some of the appearance of hacking into the actual voting systems is ok, too.

Is that how you feel? Just because you think dumps morons are not involved, this is all about nothing?

Can you EVER answer that question????

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

You make good points, les.

However, Hillary Clinton is a person who exists so we can't be too sure about all this Trump stuff.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

LOL. You wish, conservatives.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...-fake-news-si/

[Drew S.]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

What planet are you on? No one cares about anything beyond our borders. America First!!!11!1! So no matter what it doesn't matter.

Sometimes you post things that make me think and stimulate dialogue and then you post something like this. Makes me think of a kid who is scared of Mickey Mouse at Disney. Parents say there is a man in there, it isn't really Micky. Kid has a moment of insight, understands that it isn't scary if there is a man inside. In minutes the only thing they retain is it isn't scary. They forget the man is in there.

Exactly what do you think you should see to make you not concerned. The vast majority of sentient people can see there is something to be concerned about. The entire intelligence community has said this is a real thing and we should be very concerned. They actually agree with each other (something that should make this classified as a miracle). During the recent hearings even the GOP stalwarts on the committee admitted there was reason to be concern. The entire Legislature minus 3 passed sanctions and went against Trump. They passed a resolution that will prevent him from replacing the AG while they are out on break to make sure Mueller can continue without being fired. They have convened 2 Grand Juries- not exactly easy to do without some sort of evidence. There is also evidence this has happened in Europe. I know anything outside the border usually doesn't count but this goes to establishing a pattern.

Seems like those who support the GOP and/Trump can't deal with the concerns because that might be seen as believing the real enemy- the Dems. Even tho the GOP controls both House and Senate and has voted to protect the special Prosecutor and has convened a number of committees to investigate. At some point the smoke coming out the windows and the doors becomes so intense you have to entertain the possibility there is fire inside. Whether you totally believe it or think there is only a very powerful smoke machine (unlikely) you should at least prepare for response to fire when that fire is more likely than not. That they messed with the elections isn't in doubt. That we should be figuring out how to prevent incursion again isn't in doubt. Like any disease the more you know about it the better you can treat it but you don't sit back and watch the disease go nuts while you wait for the culture results. You throw the most likely antibiotic at it. Or maybe 2 and an antifungal /antiviral if it is really bad. You certainly don't throw away the culture before it has been incubating for a week.

There is no doubt Russia tried to interfere or involve themselves or whatever with the election. I'm not disputing that at all. Is it the first time it has happened? Have we ever done it? I find it bizarre that for most people this is some shocking turn of events.

As far as Trump's involvement, I'm sorry but I just do not see it. For me collusion or conspiracy involve planning and strategy, none of which I have ever seen any evidence of. At most there was casual connection between the two parties. What connection I have seen was initiated by the other party. It's funny and ironic that people rail non-stop about how disorganized and incompetent Trump & Co is, but then in the same breath believe he pulled off some great conspiracy with a foreign government to get the most important job on the planet. I would bet everything I own that if Russia had anything on Trump colluding with them they would a million percent leak it. They want nothing more than to cause chaos in our country and that most certainly would do the trick. There are many things you can criticize Trump fairly for but Russia is not one of them.

[Drew S.]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

So IF there is no collusion, you are 100% ok with the russians trying to influence the election, then, right? Their hacking into our system, which IS illegal, is ok. And some of the appearance of hacking into the actual voting systems is ok, too.

Is that how you feel? Just because you think dumps morons are not involved, this is all about nothing?

No! It's been going on since the beginning of time though. It is something our country actively does. It is something out countries do to each other. This isn't some sort of new thing. I would be a lot more concerned if anyone interfered with the actual votes. We should be a lot more careful as far as making sure there is a foolproof way that votes are made and counted.

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

You make good points, les.

However, Hillary Clinton is a person who exists so we can't be too sure about all this Trump stuff.

True but one of grand juries is reportedly re Flynn. I don't personally care about who it gets. I care that it gets the people who should be gotten.

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

The thing with the collusion (and everything else) is that with Trump's history in the courts, and given that he IS the POTUS, one better make sure there are ZERO loopholes if one wants to impeach. ANY loophole, and the case starts to fall apart. The recent phone call transcripts, for example, adds a couple bricks to the foundation for a case against Trump and his incompetence.

When the investigators decide to bring the thunder, it's gonna be a sh*storm of epic proportions, because it HAS to be to get the job done.

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

The thing with the collusion (and everything else) is that with Trump's history in the courts, and given that he IS the POTUS, one better make sure there are ZERO loopholes if one wants to impeach. ANY loophole, and the case starts to fall apart. The recent phone call transcripts, for example, adds a couple bricks to the foundation for a case against Trump and his incompetence.

When the investigators decide to bring the thunder, it's gonna be a sh*storm of epic proportions, because it HAS to be to get the job done.

Different from the past 25 years with Clintons. Investigation after investigation failed, as well as the impeachment trial, but the GOP could have cared less about their continued failures. It was the narrative they wanted and they got it.

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

Different from the past 25 years with Clintons. Investigation after investigation failed, as well as the impeachment trial, but the GOP could have cared less about their continued failures. It was the narrative they wanted and they got it.

IMO, that is a big reason for this drawn-out wait. They don't want to, and cannot, fail. They want to do this once, and have it done right, and have it done without any questioning.

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.15 - Now With More Yacht Banging Stories!

There is no doubt Russia tried to interfere or involve themselves or whatever with the election. I'm not disputing that at all. Is it the first time it has happened? Have we ever done it? I find it bizarre that for most people this is some shocking turn of events.

As far as Trump's involvement, I'm sorry but I just do not see it. For me collusion or conspiracy involve planning and strategy, none of which I have ever seen any evidence of. At most there was casual connection between the two parties. What connection I have seen was initiated by the other party. It's funny and ironic that people rail non-stop about how disorganized and incompetent Trump & Co is, but then in the same breath believe he pulled off some great conspiracy with a foreign government to get the most important job on the planet. I would bet everything I own that if Russia had anything on Trump colluding with them they would a million percent leak it. They want nothing more than to cause chaos in our country and that most certainly would do the trick. There are many things you can criticize Trump fairly for but Russia is not one of them.

I don't think most of us would say this is new. The difference, IMHO, is the precision with which it can be carried out. All the research re psychology of marketing, social media etc is much more specific than it has been. Also it would not surprise me that actual ballots could be messed with altho I haven't seen anything about this yet that is hard evidence. I am not sure that is something that would come out. Most of the things leaked have leaked because the Admin is trying to cover things up and leaks stymied that. Heard an interesting analysis of why people leak things and the consensus is currently it is to protect the country from the inner enemy- Trump et al.

I am of 2 opinions about Trump. The man we see now has completely decompensated, is in full blown megalomania. Before it would seem that he had some fluid boundaries regarding what he thought he could get away with and what he thought he would need to do on the sly to get what he wanted. He also wasn't under the microscope as much so things may have slipped thru without being noted. As time has gone on he has become more emboldened. He now does things blatantly with no care for consequences and sees himself as invincible. He most definitely has lost his grip on reality and is behaving more and more bizarrely. I don't think you can judge previous actions by his blatant actions now. He has devolved over time.

I don't think Trump is a particularly smart man as in planning things on his own but I think he is an evil genius at seeing something he wants and using people to get what he wants. He has no conscience or sense of right and wrong that would stop him from trying to get what he wanted. It would not surprise me one bit that people working for him did things totally illegally. It would not surprise me if he knew they planned to do illegal things or had knowledge afterwards even if he didn't actually do them himself. It would not surprise me if he was approached, told they would help him be elected if he followed along. All of these do not require much planning, organization or thought on his part.

I would never make that bet. I can see no benefit for Russia to admit they did anything. They are in it for the long haul. 1) Trump just recently went completely round the bend. For all he is a nut he is fairly predictable and easily manipulated. Stroke his ego and you can do just about anything. 2)He has an obvious need to please Putin. He is more useful when he is trying to do that. 3) As long as he is in the WH they have a president who is ineffectual, weak, not trusted or respected by other world leaders. What better way to sow confusion that having someone who can't rally and may mess up any plan for the 'Free world. 4) having him continually sow doubt among his followers is way more useful to them than admitting they did something- divide and conquer is more effective than facing a united pi55ed off enemy.