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Thread: World Soccer XXVIII: Campeones de NorteAmérica.

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Is that how college gymnastics works? Honest question. They seem to produce globally competitive athletes in a sport where you're over the hill at 24. How do the other powers produce their gymnasts? Maybe that is the more apt model?

    Football will be extinct in 20 years. All those cornerbacks and running backs are going to have to go somewhere.
    College gymnastics is a fall back for thousands that couldn't cut it at the international level.

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    Re: World Soccer XXVIII: Campeones de NorteAmérica.

    I agree with Jim 100% that the entire youth system needs to be blown up. I am giving up my USSF reffing badge after this season because the youth system is rotten to the core and I am sick of being a part of it.

    Every weekend I stand there watching Coach Dad tell his team to just give the ball to the most physically advanced kid (not via a pass, but by him taking it off their feet), who runs straight down the field with defenders bouncing off him, then shoots. Repeat in the other direction. That kid is going to stop growing in 3 years, have no foot skills, and be unable to physically keep up any more, but hey, you guys won a U-11 regional title. Congrats to the club, not for the title, but for the $1250 per kid they got 17 suckers to pay.

  3. #203
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    Re: World Soccer XXVIII: Campeones de NorteAmérica.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    Unless that kid has access to an EU passport they aren't leaving the US, FIFA prohibits youth players from moving abroad until they're 18.

    And there is a place for kids to play professionally at a young age, the x-2 teams that MLS has in the USL, Seattle, Portland, KC, Red Bulls etc. all have them. Know why kids don't sign into those teams? Because they'll lose their precious college scholarship if they do and parents steer them away.

    The system is there, it's our culture that is killing this game.
    I understand the frustration with the system, despite being new to soccer. However, I don't think the frustration needs to be taken out on college teams. I think we would end up running into the system that Major Junior has... lots of kids chasing a crazy dream that miss out on a college education and never make it out of the USL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    I agree with Jim 100% that the entire youth system needs to be blown up. I am giving up my USSF reffing badge after this season because the youth system is rotten to the core and I am sick of being a part of it.

    Every weekend I stand there watching Coach Dad tell his team to just give the ball to the most physically advanced kid (not via a pass, but by him taking it off their feet), who runs straight down the field with defenders bouncing off him, then shoots. Repeat in the other direction. That kid is going to stop growing in 3 years, have no foot skills, and be unable to physically keep up any more, but hey, you guys won a U-11 regional title. Congrats to the club, not for the title, but for the $1250 per kid they got 17 suckers to pay.
    Yup, I've seen the exact same thing and it's even worse at the competitive level at Regionals. Thankfully the DA is starting to render a lot of those obsolete, now it's just a matter of transferring that system to rest of youth soccer.

    As for the referee thing, don't give up the badge. I'll give you the same advice I give a lot of referees: Remember that you're an independent contractor and you can choose what games you want to ref. Tired of the youth BS? Find an adult amateur league to work. Get your upgrades to give yourself better opportunities. See about working HS and college as well, but word of caution as those two are their own minefields.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cF[Authentic] View Post
    I understand the frustration with the system, despite being new to soccer. However, I don't think the frustration needs to be taken out on college teams. I think we would end up running into the system that Major Junior has... lots of kids chasing a crazy dream that miss out on a college education and never make it out of the USL.
    That's why you integrate college soccer into the system. If a kid goes into USL at 16 but doesn't pan out yet there should be no problem with him going to college. The NCAA does have a problem and that's why they need to be divorced out of the system.

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    Re: World Soccer XXVIII: Campeones de NorteAmérica.

    By Elo, our worst loss ever.
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    Re: World Soccer XXVIII: Campeones de NorteAmérica.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    Yup, I've seen the exact same thing and it's even worse at the competitive level at Regionals. Thankfully the DA is starting to render a lot of those obsolete, now it's just a matter of transferring that system to rest of youth soccer.

    As for the referee thing, don't give up the badge. I'll give you the same advice I give a lot of referees: Remember that you're an independent contractor and you can choose what games you want to ref. Tired of the youth BS? Find an adult amateur league to work. Get your upgrades to give yourself better opportunities. See about working HS and college as well, but word of caution as those two are their own minefields.
    90-95% of my games are NFHS, I'm keeping that. What adult leagues there are around here don't really care what your certification is (or if it exists), they need warm bodies (it's mostly co-ed beer leagues). I've been fending off the guys chirping me about getting into college, that seems like heartburn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    It sounds like college soccer is where college hockey was in 1965. Is there a systemic reason to doubt that 20-30 years down the line college soccer won't rival European development in the way college hockey came to rival the Major Juniors?

    What drove the improvement of college hockey and how can we do the same with college soccer?
    College soccer plays more like u12 than the pros, and that needs to flip. The substitution rules are too generous, the use of a fixed clock, short season, etc.

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    Re: World Soccer XXVIII: Campeones de NorteAmérica.

    Quote Originally Posted by unofan View Post
    College soccer plays more like u12 than the pros, and that needs to flip. The substitution rules are too generous, the use of a fixed clock, short season, etc.
    Oh, we should change all the rules to align with FIFA yesterday.
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    Re: World Soccer XXVIII: Campeones de NorteAmérica.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Oh, we should change all the rules to align with FIFA yesterday.
    It's what happens when allow people who a) hold historic grudges against the US Soccer/FIFA system and b) think they know the game better than others, make the rules.

    And 95% of our youth soccer is designed to feed into that system.

    To everyone:

    Go online, look at the clubs in your area and see how many college scholarships they advertise on their websites. Look up college showcase tournaments in your area. Look at youth regional championships for the college coaches tents.

    Then look at how much these clubs charge per year to play.

    Then look at who runs the boards at the State level.

    Then look at the voting breakdown for the board at US Soccer.

    And you'll find out exactly why we can't develop players to beat T&T, Panama, and Honduras.
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    Re: World Soccer XXVIII: Campeones de NorteAmérica.

    Jim, can you explain more? I'm not quite sure what you are saying. Is it that Mr. and Mrs. Choate block poor kids from competing with little Erik and Erika so we wind up with a soccer system filled with Dartmouth and Duke upper class twits of the year?

    In short, is it lacrosse?
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    Re: World Soccer XXVIII: Campeones de NorteAmérica.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    It's what happens when allow people who a) hold historic grudges against the US Soccer/FIFA system and b) think they know the game better than others, make the rules.

    And 95% of our youth soccer is designed to feed into that system.

    To everyone:

    Go online, look at the clubs in your area and see how many college scholarships they advertise on their websites. Look up college showcase tournaments in your area. Look at youth regional championships for the college coaches tents.

    Then look at how much these clubs charge per year to play.

    Then look at who runs the boards at the State level.

    Then look at the voting breakdown for the board at US Soccer.

    And you'll find out exactly why we can't develop players to beat T&T, Panama, and Honduras.
    I love that getting college scholarships is a bad thing. That should probably be the goal for most players, not making the national team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerphisch View Post
    I love that getting college scholarships is a bad thing. That should probably be the goal for most players, not making the national team.
    The problem is, and this relates to your post Kep, that's not the goal for US Soccer. US Soccer's goal is to build teams that win the World Cup, and you don't produce players capable of winning a World Cup by producing kids for college.

    The system is designed for parents to pay thousands of dollars for their kid to have a chance to play college soccer, that's the wrong system. The system should be producing the 23 players that will be the best team in the world.

    If we want kids to go to college then we should work on making college affordable for everyone, not designing our sports programs to send a lucky 1%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post

    As for the referee thing, don't give up the badge. I'll give you the same advice I give a lot of referees: Remember that you're an independent contractor and you can choose what games you want to ref. Tired of the youth BS? Find an adult amateur league to work. Get your upgrades to give yourself better opportunities. See about working HS and college as well, but word of caution as those two are their own minefields.
    Not gonna lie I gave up on reffing too. I reffed youth for a while and also high school and Injust decided I had better things to focus my time on as it wasn't something I was exactly profiting from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerphisch View Post
    I love that getting college scholarships is a bad thing. That should probably be the goal for most players, not making the national team.
    Imagine if all NCAA Football teams just ran an option offense. Nothing like what is run in the NFL. Now complain that your college draft kids can't compete in the NFL.

    That is what is happening here.

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    Re: World Soccer XXVIII: Campeones de NorteAmérica.

    You're going to have to make a Major Junior for soccer because University Presidents aren't going to go along along with FIFA rules. Period. They have more important things to do then the demands of a non- revenue sport with free or cheap ticket admission at most.
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    Re: World Soccer XXVIII: Campeones de NorteAmérica.

    If I'm not mistaken the European model is to have a pro team and then teams below that level all the way down to U10 or so. The object is to develop kids for the big club, be it at the top level or some lower division

    So if we did that here we'd have DC United, a U20 team and so forth down the line all the way to 9 year olds. What I'm not clear on is would you have a ton of 9 year olds learning the fundamentals and then as they age up, the pyramid gets smaller???

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    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    If I'm not mistaken the European model is to have a pro team and then teams below that level all the way down to U10 or so. The object is to develop kids for the big club, be it at the top level or some lower division

    So if we did that here we'd have DC United, a U20 team and so forth down the line all the way to 9 year olds. What I'm not clear on is would you have a ton of 9 year olds learning the fundamentals and then as they age up, the pyramid gets smaller???
    DC United does have youth teams down to U-11. In fact one of the players is Barron Trump. So does every other MLS team.

    Joe, this is not specifically to you but does include you, do some simple research before commenting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bronconick View Post
    You're going to have to make a Major Junior for soccer because University Presidents aren't going to go along along with FIFA rules. Period. They have more important things to do then the demands of a non- revenue sport with free or cheap ticket admission at most.
    There is two major differences in the interaction between the USSF and the NCAA versus other sports: 1. The USSF doesn't need the NCAA like say USA Track & Field. 2. The USSF threatening to disqualify all NCAA players from Professional and International soccer actually carries weight.

    The USSF, as the defined NGB for soccer under the Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act (and confirmed by the courts in ChampionsWorld vs. USSF), has the power to regulate amateur soccer in the US. The NCAA considers themselves, and their soccer, amateur. Therefore the USSF has the power to say to the NCAA "conform to our regulations or face the consequences." And the USSF has the financial muscle to back it up.

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    Re: World Soccer XXVIII: Campeones de NorteAmérica.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaceBoarder View Post
    Imagine if all NCAA Football teams just ran an option offense. Nothing like what is run in the NFL. Now complain that your college draft kids can't compete in the NFL.

    That is what is happening here.
    That would never happen, because college coaches want to get the best recruits, and to do that they have to sell how they'll be prepared for the NFL.

    It seems you all are describing the symptoms, not the illness. The illness is that soccer simply isn't as popular in the US as several other sports. Building up the system you are dreaming of might just be possible until there is big money in soccer in the US.

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