POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

no, I didn't. I just told you I would tell Trump to go **** himself instead of shaking his hand. You said that you shake the president's hand, period.

At the time of W, being the worst prez of all time in your mind, you still would shake his hand. At that moment, there was not one single prez worse. The bottom of the bottom. Just sayin'.

Hey, Scoobs, I thought I wasn't worth listening to, so why are you quoting me?

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Hey, Scoobs, I thought I wasn't worth listening to, so why are you quoting me?

Cause it was ****ing hilarious.

[bronconick]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Who's going to dig up James Buchanan to shake his hand anyway?

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

At the time of W, being the worst prez of all time in your mind, you still would shake his hand. At that moment, there was not one single prez worse. The bottom of the bottom. Just sayin'.

Bush II made some decisions that were as costly as any president has made in my lifetime, both in terms of lives lost and economic harm, but he did not behave like a child. He was wrong, terribly so, but not categorically unfit. There is a difference.

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Plus he was never as evil as some pretended he was. I dont think he wished harm on people and actually cared for the country. (he was just a moron and a terrible president) Trump would burn everyone at the stake just to prove he could do it and whats worse is he doesnt even pretend that isnt true.

[French Rage]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Plus he was never as evil as some pretended he was. I dont think he wished harm on people and actually cared for the country. (he was just a moron and a terrible president) Trump would burn everyone at the stake just to prove he could do it and whats worse is he doesnt even pretend that isnt true.

If I had to sum up W in as few words as possible, it would be "fell in with the wrong crowd". Now, as President the responsibility of who he listens to is still his - "the buck stops here" - and boy did they lead to some monumental screwups. But as you said, there wasn't the, and I don't want to use this word but I can't think of a better one, "malice" that Trump exudes. W may have wanted different things then me, and I could argue against them ten ways to Sunday, but ultimately I felt he was doing what he honestly thought was best. If he were given the right supporting cast, he would be a decent caretaker President, doing the appearances and going through the motions and saying nice things; he wouldn't be a groundbreaking or academic one, but it would still be a step-up to now.

Man, 50 years from now the Trump administration will be the best thing that ever happened to the Bush family.

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Plus he was never as evil as some pretended he was. I dont think he wished harm on people and actually cared for the country. (he was just a moron and a terrible president) Trump would burn everyone at the stake just to prove he could do it and whats worse is he doesnt even pretend that isnt true.

I don't think many people thought of Dubya as evil. He was encapsulated perfectly in the epithet "C plus Augustus" -- someone miles out of his depth who didn't realize it and even had delusions of being well-suited to the task, a confidence that could only have come from his background as a coddled silver spooner insulated from all accountability.

Trump matches the latter, but he has something additional: that omnivorous narcissism that plays out partly as boorishness and partly as hypersensitive malice.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

I don't think I can respect the office when the man in office doesn't respect the office.

The man uses his position to throw tantrums over the Internet and spreads lies and rumors on the daily. That's not presidential behavior, and there should be no expectation of respect because of it.

This.

After the tweetstorm this am, I think he's even less honorable than before. If that's possible.

Using his 11 year-old son as a political prop. What a sh*tbag.

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Who's going to dig up James Buchanan to shake his hand anyway?

He had a good run.

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

I think the notion of respecting the office even if you don't respect the office holder in this day and age is quaint, to say the least. While the left is certainly guilty of saying some unfair stuff about GWB and failing to "respect the office" while he was sitting in it, the republicans have failed to uphold that notion far more egregiously than even the worst of the democrats. The right generally equates that type civility with weakness and considers it "unmanly" nowadays. Does anyone really believe the average knuckle-dragging trump supporter, like the shirtless guy with all the tattoos screaming "make me a burrito" at a trump rally last year, is going to appreciate me respectfully shaking trump's hand and expressing my deep respect for the office while the man in it in 2017 is making a mockery of it? No. He's going to think I'm some weakling homo who has shown by trying to be civil and nice I'm worthy of nothing but mockery. We started to really lose that type of civility during the Clinton presidency when the republicans went full in on the disrespect factor, whether it was mocking Bill Clinton or his wife. To the point now where there is little upside seen in being respectful. I used to be very big on "respect the office" but anymore, I don't know why I would.

People can believe what they want (and that's the problem here, people believing what they want and not what is demonstrably true) but one side here has been worse than the other. But we live in a society where one side can not possibly admit that they may bare more of the blame. What a shame when admitting you are wrong is seen as a sign of weakness to be exploited rather than a sign of a mature person you can work with and get things done.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Do you mean like the way we used to state the Pledge?

Objection, relevance.

Yeah, I've heard of the Bellamy Salute, smartypants.

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

I think the notion of respecting the office even if you don't respect the office holder in this day and age is quaint, to say the least. While the left is certainly guilty of saying some unfair stuff about GWB and failing to "respect the office" while he was sitting in it, the republicans have failed to uphold that notion far more egregiously than even the worst of the democrats. The right generally equates that type civility with weakness and considers it "unmanly" nowadays. Does anyone really believe the average knuckle-dragging trump supporter, like the shirtless guy with all the tattoos screaming "make me a burrito" at a trump rally last year, is going to appreciate me respectfully shaking trump's hand and expressing my deep respect for the office while the man in it in 2017 is making a mockery of it? No. He's going to think I'm some weakling homo who has shown by trying to be civil and nice I'm worthy of nothing but mockery. We started to really lose that type of civility during the Clinton presidency when the republicans went full in on the disrespect factor, whether it was mocking Bill Clinton or his wife. To the point now where there is little upside seen in being respectful. I used to be very big on "respect the office" but anymore, I don't know why I would.

People can believe what they want (and that's the problem here, people believing what they want and not what is demonstrably true) but one side here has been worse than the other. But we live in a society where one side can not possibly admit that they may bare more of the blame. What a shame when admitting you are wrong is seen as a sign of weakness to be exploited rather than a sign of a mature person you can work with and get things done.

Good post. I guess I am quaint, in that I still will respect the office. I wish that quaintness would return. One quibble with your post, is that the Repubs have "far more egregariously" disrepected the office/prez. Quite a few non-Repubs have literally called for Trump's head on a stick.

On both main party sides, there are those extremists. As a whole, I think both are equally guilty. Given the last couple of pages here, it appears to me that while many of us disagree, we can at least understand each other's viewpoints for the most part, and are trying to work things out. I really like that aspect of this discussion.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Quite a few non-Repubs have literally called for Trump's head on a stick.

"Cite your sources!" *clap* *clap* *clapclapclap*

Literally? As in, outright called for his assassination? Really?

Other than the usual fringe whackjobs, who constitutes "quite a few"?

[jerphisch]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

The best people...

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Good post. I guess I am quaint, in that I still will respect the office. I wish that quaintness would return. One quibble with your post, is that the Repubs have "far more egregariously" disrepected the office/prez. Quite a few non-Repubs have literally called for Trump's head on a stick.

On both main party sides, there are those extremists. As a whole, I think both are equally guilty. Given the last couple of pages here, it appears to me that while many of us disagree, we can at least understand each other's viewpoints for the most part, and are trying to work things out. I really like that aspect of this discussion.

Which party has had more and worse abuse of norms is probably something that is forever in the eye of the beholder -- you know my sympathies so you know what I believe.

But it doesn't matter what's gone before if we can mutually formulate a code of conduct and then pledge to stick to it in the future. Then, violations become measurable, and probably more importantly we then have a scale to measure our actions against before we commit to them.

There's a name for those who deliberately shock and offend to get their jollies: trolls. The vast, vast majority of us are not trolls. When we offend it is typically the heat of the moment and/or a slip of self-discipline, not a methodical strategy. If we can agree on what constitutes "too far" then we will each be more vigilant about crossing or even approaching that line.

And luckily we don't have to invent it wholecloth. It's basically the normal rules of social interaction we were taught as kids. Don't belittle, don't threaten, don't bait, don't name-call.