Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!

[burd]

Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!

And yet people accused me of an overreaction when I say white supremacy groups are actively infiltrating police departments in many places in this country, despite well researched articles detailing just this in the legitimate media. I believe it is a bigger problem than even that media has led us to believe, in fact. This kind of behavior by police simply did not happen with such alarming regularity 30 years ago. It isn't just the advent of a camera in everybody's hands either that more readily reveals it. If it was, the cops themselves would be adjusting their behavior. The truth is it IS happening far more frequently. And since the cops know the chances of them suffering even as much as a termination are slim and none, nothing else is giving them much of a reason to stop.

What we are likely heading to, in five years, or maybe 10, but we're heading to it, is an entire population of people who so fear the police (rightly, in many cases) that they will be taking matters into their own hands. I'm surprised it hasn't happened already actually.

I have to wonder where you were in the 60s--or the xx years before that. You think blacks and other minorities weren't regularly beaten, wrongly incarcerated and murdered in those times? And without being in the news. Keep in mind what cell phones and a 24-hour news cycle have done to make us all aware that kind of abuse.

[joecct]

I have to wonder where you were in the 60s--or the xx years before that. You think blacks and other minorities weren't regularly beaten, wrongly incarcerated and murdered in those times? And without being in the news. Keep in mind what cell phones and a 24-hour news cycle have done to make us all aware that kind of abuse.

I think the Birmingham water cannon (1963) brought it to mainstream USA via the nightly news.

https://youtu.be/hPrHwmiUMH0

And then 11 years later - Boston
https://youtu.be/a46oVFrA3XI

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!

And yet people accused me of an overreaction when I say white supremacy groups are actively infiltrating police departments in many places in this country, despite well researched articles detailing just this in the legitimate media. I believe it is a bigger problem than even that media has led us to believe, in fact. This kind of behavior by police simply did not happen with such alarming regularity 30 years ago. It isn't just the advent of a camera in everybody's hands either that more readily reveals it. If it was, the cops themselves would be adjusting their behavior. The truth is it IS happening far more frequently. And since the cops know the chances of them suffering even as much as a termination are slim and none, nothing else is giving them much of a reason to stop.

What we are likely heading to, in five years, or maybe 10, but we're heading to it, is an entire population of people who so fear the police (rightly, in many cases) that they will be taking matters into their own hands. I'm surprised it hasn't happened already actually.

I still think that is inaccurate at best, wrong at worst. I don't think that there is an organized effort. Racists getting in the mix, sure. No doubt. But an active mission across the country to infiltrate? To me, that's a bit of tinfoil hat.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!

I still think that is inaccurate at best, wrong at worst. I don't think that there is an organized effort. Racists getting in the mix, sure. No doubt. But an active mission across the country to infiltrate? To me, that's a bit of tinfoil hat.

Aren’t inaccurate and wrong the same thing?

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!

I have to wonder where you were in the 60s--or the xx years before that. You think blacks and other minorities weren't regularly beaten, wrongly incarcerated and murdered in those times? And without being in the news. Keep in mind what cell phones and a 24-hour news cycle have done to make us all aware that kind of abuse.

I disagree with this notion most vehemently. This was not happening with the frequency it is now in the 1970s and 1980s. Law enforcement was making real, tangible progress for a couple of decades in fixing some of the systematic racism within their ranks. There was a real push to integrate some police departments and society as a whole was coming to grips with the need to move beyond the worst days of racism. If that wasn't so we never would have seen the progress that began 60 and 70 years ago, starting with integrating the military and the seeds of the first real steps taken judicially and legislatively in the 1950s. Follow that up with the civil rights movement in the 1960s and the two most impactful pieces of civil rights legislation since the Civil War. While we did not have a 24 hour news cycle and cell phone videos in 1970 what we did have was an even more functional hard news media in some ways. Most big cities still had multiple newspapers and nearly everyone tuned into the nightly news. I believe most people were better informed. And 50 years ago cops had a far more dangerous job. It would almost have been understandable if every cop was jumping out of his own skin in 1970 because a lot more of them were being assualted and killed then, by far, than now. Law enforcement is far, far worse now than at any point in my lifetime.

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!

Aren’t inaccurate and wrong the same thing?

Not quite, IMO. Say, racist cops make up 10% of the force (just assume it's a fact, for argument's sake). Saying that 50% of the cops are racist is very wrong (again, just assume the number, for argument's sake). Call it the +/- in a poll.

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!

I still think that is inaccurate at best, wrong at worst. I don't think that there is an organized effort. Racists getting in the mix, sure. No doubt. But an active mission across the country to infiltrate? To me, that's a bit of tinfoil hat.

Then you think all of the links I posted previously are wrong too. The FBI has been warning local law enforcement of this issue for a decade at least now. I posted well sourced articles from well respected news organizations that discuss how this is becoming an issue. This is where I really don't understand you Brent. You think it is inaccurate because you want it to be. I believe you must either have family or very close friends in law enforcement and don't want to think people you know and care about could be part of the problem, because you reflexively give law enforcement far too much of the benefit of doubt.

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!

Then you think all of the links I posted previously are wrong too. The FBI has been warning local law enforcement of this issue for a decade at least now. I posted well sourced articles from well respected news organizations that discuss how this is becoming an issue. This is where I really don't understand you Brent. You think it is inaccurate because you want it to be. I believe you must either have family or very close friends in law enforcement and don't want to think people you know and care about could be part of the problem, because you reflexively give law enforcement far too much of the benefit of doubt.

I have had 2 relatives as LEOs, 78 years combined. And THEY have some bad cop stories, for sure. I know there are bad cops. It's been proven. But to think that an active national mission to infiltrate a profession with racist views to secure the outcome that these groups want? That doesn't sound a little paranoid/odd to you?

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!

I have had 2 relatives as LEOs, 78 years combined. And THEY have some bad cop stories, for sure. I know there are bad cops. It's been proven. But to think that an active national mission to infiltrate a profession with racist views to secure the outcome that these groups want? That doesn't sound a little paranoid/odd to you?

No it doesn't sound paranoid or odd. Maybe it would be if there was nothing to back it up. The evidence is there. Is it every cop? Of course not. But I believe it to be widespread and in all corners of the country. If this were just a phenomena of bad policing or poor training, or that cops were faced with far too much violence to have less lethal responses, we'd see a proportional number of black cops killing unarmed white guys or even black cops killing other black people. But we don't. The cops doing the killing are overwhelmingly white, even in police departments that have a lot of black cops.

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!

No it doesn't sound paranoid or odd. Maybe it would be if there was nothing to back it up. The evidence is there. Is it every cop? Of course not. But I believe it to be widespread and in all corners of the country. If this were just a phenomena of bad policing or poor training, or that cops were faced with far too much violence to have less lethal responses, we'd see a proportional number of black cops killing unarmed white guys or even black cops killing other black people. But we don't. The cops doing the killing are overwhelmingly white, even in police departments that have a lot of black cops.

Here, have a seat next to Scooby. Kool-Aid is being served soon. Don't worry, Flaggy will be by to serve as a consultant.

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!

Here, have a seat next to Scooby. Kool-Aid is being served soon. Don't worry, Flaggy will be by to serve as a consultant.

You can throw your fvcking insults at me all you want brent. You proved my point though about having your opinion clouded by close family ties to law enforcement. I'm sure your bias is unintentional but it is there nonetheless. We all do it. My knee jerk reaction is to defend organized labor because it is my profession and I have been deeply immersed in it for over 30 years. So sometimes I have to take a step back and realize there are countless ways my union and all the rest have made grave mistakes when it comes to our mission. You can pound that flaggy 5h!t up your rear end because it doesn't apply to me. I don't subscribe to his brand of paranoia and actually have both of my feet well grounded in reality. You generally seem to as well and I don't make a habit of the ad hominem attacks on you some other tend to do. Having law enforcement in your family doesn't disqualify you from having strong opinions one way or another, but at least admit it may cloud your hopes and beliefs about the profession. I too have law enforcement in my family, an uncle who was a chief of police for years. He's since passed on and one of my cherished possessions is his badge. In fact it sits on the very desk my computer sits on. My best friend from high school was also a cop for a number of years.

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!

Yeah, I have admitted it clouds my beliefs somewhat (DQ'ed me from jury duty, unfortunately, a couple years ago). However, I am honest about it, and STILL think that the "infiltration" is tinfoil hat material. Again, I say that with no doubt, racists join the force. Post-Iraqi-war guys that are a bit gung-ho, racists that "want to make a difference," etc. But a nationally organized effort? IMO, that's just silly.

[Slap Shot]

Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!

Brent - why don't you read the links he's provided and pick apart specific parts of it you find incorrect? You seem to be blindly dismissing all of it without spending any time to validate your skepticism.

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!

Brent - why don't you read the links he's provided and pick apart specific parts of it you find incorrect? You seem to be blindly dismissing all of it without spending any time to validate your skepticism.

That whole article in the last link is speculation and anecdotal. 2 cops here, 4 cops there, hardly proof of a widespread organized effort.

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Cops 5: Barney Fife, Now in Real Life!

That whole article in the last link is speculation and anecdotal. 2 cops here, 4 cops there, hardly proof of a widespread organized effort.

I suppose it is the latent firefighter in me. Where there is smoke, there is fire. If you don't operate that way, you might die.

Circumstantial and anecdotal evidence is still evidence, by the way. Most criminal cases are decided on circumstantial evidence.

Issues arise in obtaining more empirical evidence, like the many structural impediments in investigating and researching the topic. First of all, there are too many law enforcement agencies in the country. Second, there are no consistent requirements to report on things like use of force, so compiling useful statistics for analysis is difficult. Third, we have become a society that reflexively seeks to support law enforcement no matter the apparent transgression because we incorrectly have believed fear mongers who posit there is far more crime than there actually is and that the job of a law enforcement officer is far more dangerous than it actually is. Finally, like the NRA, most city mayors refuse to take on the FOP (or whatever version of police "union" represents the local law enforcement) for fear of looking "weak on crime."

Realize too when I say white supremacist reach into law enforcement is "widespread" I don't necessarily mean pervasive or a majority of the cops out there are members of the KKK. I don't know if that is true. But I know how to use the brains and eyes God gave me. I know enough about how to understand statistics and probability.

If this was not an issue, unarmed white men would be getting killed by cops more often than unarmed black or brown men. Based on what evidence we have been able to obtain, we know that is not the case. Black cops would be killing unarmed people of all colors in numbers representative of their numbers on police forces, and those eyes God gave me tell me that is not true either. Show me the repeated instances of black cops captured on cell phone video shooting unarmed people. You can't. Of all the recent "viral" videos of the last few years, the only white victim I can recall is the Utah nurse who was illegally arrested for her refusal to let a cop take a blood sample he had no legal right to obtain. And last time I checked, she was alive and well.

It's high time as a society we put this issue to rest. Study it, understand it, fix it. If I'm wrong, law enforcement has nothing to fear and everything to gain by shining as much light on the topic as can be shined. Every day we wait tells me more and more I am not wrong.