UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!

Back to Snively's list ... how many seasons did Brick play?

Excellent, Aerman!. I will edit my earlier post (no. 776) to include Brick's NHL 11 seasons (albeit first and last were 3 and 2 games, respectively, similar to some others that I edited).

[Dan]

I'm just going to group some of Dan's comments together, for sake of responding in a more linear fashion ...



So here's the funny thing ... JvR's two years at UNH overlapped with my least active posting period EVER on USCHO. I know that for a fact since I know what I was doing in my real life way back when - as opposed to relying upon your wisps of imagination and "insinuation". No, I've never claimed to be a huge fan of JvR, and at one time or another I've chimed in with observations that probably hit on issues like his work rate in the defensive end, and whether or not he was playing up to his potential at UNH. That never meant "hate", and if you came up with a "lazy selfish prima donna" as my so-called "insinuations", then I'm afraid you've missed the mark there as well, my friend.

Not unlike any number of other players before, during, and since JvR's time at UNH, I felt he was an example of someone who was playing to protect his NHL future (and his future earnings). And if that's the case, then hey - who am I to question how he's handled his business? But players who don't put themselves 100% on the line in their current situation (for our discussion, at UNH) aren't ever going to earn my heartfelt respect and admiration. If you - or others - are willing to live with a talented player giving you most of what he has, then good for you. Personally, I'd rather see those players playing elsewhere. My priority is to see UNH winning games consistently again, and eventually to get back to competing regularly in the REAL postseason. And eventually to have some success at that too. Let's move on ...



First of all, I've been checking the Toronto depth charts/line charts on and off for the last couple of seasons, primarily due to seeing how Coach Babcock is using the guy. I've said on here before that Toronto putting Babcock in charge was the best thing that ever could have happened for JvR's career. He is the one guy who is going to pull the best out of JvR, and have the gravitas to do so. JvR has spent time on all three forward lines for the most part during the Babcock era. So was calling him a 3rd liner an exaggeration? Probably, but there is some basis for it. As opposed to your exaggeration later in the post, which we'll get to shortly.

Now let's look at that list of other 2nd overall draft picks. I specifically asked you to focus on the list for the last 25 years - so imagine we draw a line under Yashin. Of the players playing forward positions after that, I see only Jordan Staal and David Legwand producing less than JvR at the same draft position. That's not middle of the pack - that's the bottom quartile (or whatever). By any objective measure, that's on the disappointing side. Not a bust, but not an NHL All-Star caliber player either. And you should expect that at #2 overall, no?



Yes, it is ridiculous to argue (or is that "insinuate"?) that JvR is anywhere near the Top 150 all-time NHL team, in any capacity. As you've previously acknowledged, health and injuries are parts of this game. If not for some bad knees and pre-arthroscopic medical technology and technique, Bobby Orr would've played 20+ years and doubled his already prodigious stats, and the B's probably would have chipped a few Cups away from the Bowman era Habs. It's fun to discuss the "what if's" sometimes, but at this stage of his career, JvR is a decent player on a decent team, which is getting better around him, not because of him. JvR still continues to be a negative player on plus/minus too, which is something that's been the case in all but two of his NHL seasons to date. Take that for what it's worth.

Oh, and BTW ... your throwaway line about "likely" scoring his 200th NHL goal this season is predicated on him scoring 35 goals this year. Or five (5) full goals more than he has in any of his previous eight (8) NHL seasons. Good one.

---

I will say this for JvR ... I give him more credit for what he did at UNH than what Poturalski did in his two seasons. I've said Tyler Kelleher was the one who made AP look better, you've disagreed. Neither is currently tearing it up in the AHL, but one guy has more points in less games so far, and is faring better in plus/minus, too. Guess?

Gee, I wonder why you don't want to include the second round picks pre-Yashin? Why focus on the whole sample size when you can focus only on the part that helps your case. And you're still wrong, because in your hand picked sample size he ranks 8th of 13 in goal scoring pace. Certainly Sedin is the better player, but JVR has given you everything you'd get from Bobby Ryan. I eagerly await your new points of comparison to win the remaining four arguments - a different one for each player I'm sure. To beat you to the punch, Barkov and Landeskog have played plenty of games to know what they are...

Goals Per Game
Malkin - .46 (335 / 727)
Heatley - .43 (372 / 869)
Yashin - .40 (337 / 850)
Seguin - .37 (197/527)
E. Stall - .35 (359 / 1028)
Marleau - .34 (516 / 1513)
Ryan - .33 (223 / 678)
JVR - .32 (174 / 547)
Sedin - .30 (373 / 1243)
Barkov - .29 (79 / 269)
Landeskog - .28 (167 / 444)
J. Stall - .25 (193 / 781)
Legwand - .20 (228 / 1136)

Not only is he middle of the pack, but he's five goals over the course of a season and a quarter away from the top of the middle of the pack. Facts matter.

Line charts don't. Half the line charts posted in a given night in NCAA hockey have the team's best line listed third. That argument is laughably bad. It's apparent what type of player he is, what his role is and how he is valued. Calling someone a third liner refers to their ability, not what line they're playing on in a single night. You know this.

As for him hitting 200 goals this season and 350 for his career - it's not far fetched either. Certainly health is a factor - but you know what you can't be if you get hurt? A bust! The ability is what it is, cut short by injury or not.

First of all - JVR is currently on pace for 41 goals this year, so hitting 200 represents a step back from the pace he's on right now. If he doesn't hit it this season, he'll hit it VERY early next year. He has essentially scored atleast a 25 goal pace for the last eight seasons and nearly a 30 goal pace the last six. Here are his single season per 82 goal productions - 16,23,21,31,31,27,29,29,41 (surprising, huh?).

Let's say he only hits 195 (scoring five full goals less than 35 this year!) by the end of this season - he's still only 29 as of the start of next season. It's easy to see him scoring 100 more goals (25/yr) by the time he's 32. Then let's say his prime is over and he only averages 15/11 over the next four or five. That fairly conservative projection puts him at - gasp - 355/350 by the time he's 36/37 and ready to hang it up. So no, it's not unreasonable to think he has a chance to hit the top 150 (which actually only means 341 goals) - simple math shows it's likely unless he's injured or just walks away. Which again, would have NOTHING to do with his ability. Injuries happen. There are also essentially four guys in this list who have played double the games JVR has (a few more will join them) - and if you double JVRs goals...350...

Finally, it's ridiculous to expound on the effort and mindset of AP or JVR when you have no idea what the truth is. Because they're not blocking shots with their face, dominating every single shift and are good enough to leave early they weren't trying and didn't care about their time at UNH? That's bologna. Kelleher, Saviano, Gould - they all leave early if they are good enough, big enough and have a 750K opportunity dangled in front of them. Period. It has nothing to do with how much or how little they invested in their time at UNH...

You may remember JVR had the chance to leave as a FR and surprised/upset many pundits by choosing to stay. It's almost as if he loved his time at UNH!? You question APs effort and care for UNH, while dismissing out of hand the many sources who have told you flatly he played with an injured shoulder down the stretch? If he was the player/person you paint him to be he would have sat. Would he have 'cared' more about his time at UNH if they hadn't deferred him and he skated theee years in Durham? Souza, himself, called him one of the best to ever play at UNH. Both he and TK were elite players - capable of producing at elite levels alone or even more so together. It really isn't complicated. Unless you want to muddy the waters to reinforce you're pre- determined opinions...

That's it for me. Until next time, my friend...

[BCeagle]

Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!

Any reason why no one is talking about tonight’s game ? 😊

BC is not ranked while UNH is ranked along with NU and PC and our rivals down Comm Ave⛳️

I’m driving up to watch tonight and looking forward to watching this matchup tonight.

[HockeyRef]

Any reason why no one is talking about tonight’s game ? 😊

BC is not ranked while UNH is ranked along with NU and PC and our rivals down Comm Ave⛳️

I’m driving up to watch tonight and looking forward to watching this matchup tonight.

Would love to chat about it we usually do more post game. Our blogger Mike Lowry (C-H-C) did a great job discussing the match up in the BCInterruption blog.

Looking for competitive game with your Eagles and glad we will have a couple of our forwards back. 'Cats haven't beaten BC (or the hillbillies as they are affectionately called here) since I've started following them although we tied and lost by one here last season.

Gotta break that two game losing streak and can't think of a better team to do that with than BC 😉 Go 'Cats!!!

[Dan]

Would love to chat about it we usually do more post game. Our blogger Mike Lowry (C-H-C) did a great job discussing the match up in the BCInterruption blog.

Looking for competitive game with your Eagles and glad we will have a couple of our forwards back. 'Cats haven't beaten BC (or the hillbillies as they are affectionately called here) since I've started following them although we tied and lost by one here last season.

Gotta break that two game losing streak and can't think of a better team to do that with than BC 😉 Go 'Cats!!!

Last five -
BC: 5-0-0
UNH: 1-3-1

I fear both teams are regressing to the mean and that the regression continues tonight. I'm sure there was much hand-wringing on the heights after BCs slow start - but the reality is their early schedule was a gauntlet. Three losses to SCSU and DU (arguably the two best teams in the country) and one (as part of a split) versus PC. They might want the UW loss back, but that's hardly a bad loss in a vacuum. They're talented and playing well.

UNH needs one of tonight and at Yale - obviously the preference would be for the HE win - and a split at PC to have some momentum heading into a stretch of VERY winnable games...

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!

Gee, I wonder why you don't want to include the second round picks pre-Yashin? Why focus on the whole sample size when you can focus only on the part that helps your case. And you're still wrong, because in your hand picked sample size he ranks 8th of 13 in goal scoring pace. Certainly Sedin is the better player, but JVR has given you everything you'd get from Bobby Ryan. I eagerly await your new points of comparison to win the remaining four arguments - a different one for each player I'm sure. To beat you to the punch, Barkov and Landeskog have played plenty of games to know what they are...

Goals Per Game
Malkin - .46 (335 / 727)
Heatley - .43 (372 / 869)
Yashin - .40 (337 / 850)
Seguin - .37 (197/527)
E. Stall - .35 (359 / 1028)
Marleau - .34 (516 / 1513)
Ryan - .33 (223 / 678)
JVR - .32 (174 / 547)
Sedin - .30 (373 / 1243)
Barkov - .29 (79 / 269)
Landeskog - .28 (167 / 444)
J. Stall - .25 (193 / 781)
Legwand - .20 (228 / 1136)

Not only is he middle of the pack, but he's five goals over the course of a season and a quarter away from the top of the middle of the pack. Facts matter.

Line charts don't. Half the line charts posted in a given night in NCAA hockey have the team's best line listed third. That argument is laughably bad. It's apparent what type of player he is, what his role is and how he is valued. Calling someone a third liner refers to their ability, not what line they're playing on in a single night. You know this.

As for him hitting 200 goals this season and 350 for his career - it's not far fetched either. Certainly health is a factor - but you know what you can't be if you get hurt? A bust! The ability is what it is, cut short by injury or not.

First of all - JVR is currently on pace for 41 goals this year, so hitting 200 represents a step back from the pace he's on right now. If he doesn't hit it this season, he'll hit it VERY early next year. He has essentially scored atleast a 25 goal pace for the last eight seasons and nearly a 30 goal pace the last six. Here are his single season per 82 goal productions - 16,23,21,31,31,27,29,29,41 (surprising, huh?).

Let's say he only hits 195 (scoring five full goals less than 35 this year!) by the end of this season - he's still only 29 as of the start of next season. It's easy to see him scoring 100 more goals (25/yr) by the time he's 32. Then let's say his prime is over and he only averages 15/11 over the next four or five. That fairly conservative projection puts him at - gasp - 355/350 by the time he's 36/37 and ready to hang it up. So no, it's not unreasonable to think he has a chance to hit the top 150 (which actually only means 341 goals) - simple math shows it's likely unless he's injured or just walks away. Which again, would have NOTHING to do with his ability. Injuries happen. There are also essentially four guys in this list who have played double the games JVR has (a few more will join them) - and if you double JVRs goals...350...

Finally, it's ridiculous to expound on the effort and mindset of AP or JVR when you have no idea what the truth is. Because they're not blocking shots with their face, dominating every single shift and are good enough to leave early they weren't trying and didn't care about their time at UNH? That's bologna. Kelleher, Saviano, Gould - they all leave early if they are good enough, big enough and have a 750K opportunity dangled in front of them. Period. It has nothing to do with how much or how little they invested in their time at UNH...

You may remember JVR had the chance to leave as a FR and surprised/upset many pundits by choosing to stay. It's almost as if he loved his time at UNH!? You question APs effort and care for UNH, while dismissing out of hand the many sources who have told you flatly he played with an injured shoulder down the stretch? If he was the player/person you paint him to be he would have sat. Would he have 'cared' more about his time at UNH if they hadn't deferred him and he skated theee years in Durham? Souza, himself, called him one of the best to ever play at UNH. Both he and TK were elite players - capable of producing at elite levels alone or even more so together. It really isn't complicated. Unless you want to muddy the waters to reinforce you're pre- determined opinions...

That's it for me. Until next time, my friend...

You lost me at the "JVR has given you everything you'd get from Bobby Ryan" part. Suffice to say that while Ryan is still marginally better than JvR in your hand-picked measurement (GPG), he has consistently brought a more well-rounded game to the table over the course of his career. Ryan has consistently been a plus player, while JvR has consistently been a minus player. I'll admit the difference between the two statistically was less than I'd anticipated, but it appears that's mostly because Ryan's recent output in Ottawa has been sliding.

Maybe the Ryan v. JvR comparison helps me bridge the discussion back to what I think is at the root of most of our disagreements, which might be how these guys go about competing. I know the baseline assumption of those who rely heavily on statistical analysis is that you can assume all players are giving equal/maximum effort. I've never bought into that assumption. That's not to say or imply that a player who doesn't dig as deep as someone else is "lazy". Far from it. Sure, there are exceptions, and *maybe* some extraordinarily talented players (Yashin is a name we've already mentioned here) who are either dysfunctional and/or outside of their comfort zone just get too comfortable cashing paychecks, and giving less than full effort. It happens - not often, but it does happen. For the other 95+% of players (which includes JvR, Poturalski, and most of the other names we've discussed on here so far) the fear/motivation of losing their ice time or their roster slot does pretty much keep everyone else "honest". But some guys will simply push harder for their 100% than others.

Prime example I've always used on this issue is Steve Yzerman (BTW a 4th overall pick in his draft year). Yzerman was going to be a HHOF player after the first half of his career, no matter what happened afterwards. But he was a one-dimensional player, and his teams always came up short in the postseason, despite being laden with all-time talented players. Scotty Bowman happened, and when he did, Yzerman was on the trading block until he met with Bowman, and bought 100% into his system. Yzerman committed fully to the two-way game, and while his scoring fell off modestly - still at levels that the JvR's and Ryans of the world could only dream about - he became a consistently plus player (never a negative year post-Bowman, when he was 50/50 pre-Bowman), and started winning the Stanley Cups his previous teams failed to snag. And when he often was overlooked for the big international competitions early in his career - in part due to guys like Gretzky and Lemieux being in their primes, and in equal part due to perceptions about his defensive indifference - he eventually became the leader of the Canadian teams in those same competitions later in his career.

Yzerman could have parked it in neutral when Bowman came along, accepted a trade to hometown Ottawa, and racked up 800 goals and probably pushed for 2,000 points (more fodder for the NRN crowd out there ). It took a guy like Bowman to unlock the proverbial extra 10% to get him the Cups and the widespread recognition from peers and coaches he earned in the second half of his career. That's what a coach like Babcock might be able to do for JvR. As for Yzerman, he seems to have learned his lessons so well, he's applying them for one of the best teams in the NHL right now down in that hockey hotbed of Tampa FL.

To freshen it up for modern-day players/fans ... let's just say some folks are drawn to the Patrick Kane types, others opt for the Jonathan Toews types. My guess is you are a Kane guy, and I'm a Toews guy. It takes all kinds, and just because you like certain styles/players while I prefer different ones, doesn't mean either "hates" the other style. JMHO.

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!

No, Dan. I was not comparing their scoring stats. I'm aware that goals came cheap back in the seventies so comparing JVR and Gould based on scoring stats is meaningless. My comparison of Gould as a sophomore and JVR as a sophomore was their performances in the most important games of their respective seasons where a win would put his team into the Final (Frozen) Four. In Gould's game, there were 19 freakin' goals scored, but none in the first overtime. Cornell was not a chump team and, as the second OT began, it would not have surprised anyone if they got the game winner. But, then again, it wouldn't have surprised any of my UNH buddies at the time if Gould got the game winner. In 2009 UNH was a decisive underdog against BU but there they were tied with less than a minute to go. UNH needed ever player to dig deep and prevent a score. I was sitting in the end zone corner as BU rushed up the ice and I distinctly remember JVR trailing the play on the left wing, allowing his man the freedom to make a pass cross ice to Wilson. Yes, it was a bad moment for JVR, in fact the last time he had an impact on a game at UNH, and it certainly should not define his college career. But it does define him in comparison to Gould in a big playoff game, and he ends up short.

Btw, you will never find me pining for Paul Surdam over Ralph Cox. Cox was an uber scorer. That year, 1977, he was on the same line as Miller. It was ridiculous how good they were together. Surdam was fourth line penalty killer, very effective but even he would tell you he was no Cox. Just an aside, the first time I ever saw Ralph Cox in person was an EMass HS semi-final when Archbishop Williams played Stoneham, whose star was Paul Surdam.

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!

Last five -
BC: 5-0-0
UNH: 1-3-1

I fear both teams are regressing to the mean and that the regression continues tonight.

Dan, I think BC is ascending to the mean.

[BCeagle]

Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!

This BC team is very young with no seniors except a graduate student from Michigan with a handful of juniors. It is a sophomore and freshman dominated team starting to play better of late.

This is their next test with back to back road games against 2 ranked teams in Hockey East.

I’m thinking a split is fine this weekend and hoping they can continue to play well.

[After the Whistle]

Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!

This BC team is very young with no seniors except a graduate student from Michigan with a handful of juniors. It is a sophomore and freshman dominated team starting to play better of late.

This is their next test with back to back road games against 2 ranked teams in Hockey East.

I’m thinking a split is fine this weekend and hoping they can continue to play well.

Well Bceagle I'm feeling a 4-3 game! Problem is the ball is to cloudy to see the winner.

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!

Dan, I think BC is ascending to the mean.

Yes, that is what I meant.

As to the BU/UNH '09 Regional Final - your memory is a little off, although I can certainly understand why this is your impression.

First of all, BU scored the game winner on the PP when Jason Lawrence's pass across the crease hit a sliding Jerry Pollastrone and ricocheted into the net. JVR was the UNH player in the penalty box. You recollection of JVR being late into the play is because he was the last man into the zone on the preceding rush and hauled down Nick Bonino, who had a point-blank shot from the mid-slot, to take a late hooking penalty. Before you blame JVR's lazy back-check for resulting in a crucial penalty, take a look at the highlights of that game below. If you do, you'll first notice JVR generates a lot of chances for himself and for his teammates throughout the game (the real difference in the game was Kieran Milan's goaltending). UNH out-chanced BU and really could/should have won this game. If you skip ahead to the 5:40 mark you'll also notice JVR save a goal on a BU wraparound attempt and then clear the puck out of danger. Finally, at the 7:10 mark you'll get to the play that led to JVRs penalty...

Now, take a close look at the UNH forwards in the offensive zone. You'll see that the three forechecking forwards, beaten by the BU rush up ice are, #20, #39 and #17. That checks out with UNH's third line that day, consisting of DeSimone, Fortney and Thompson. At least one of those forwards heads to the bench instead of backchecking. JVR jumps on in his place and as a result is late into the zone. He IS NOT late because he wasn't committed to coverage in a big game. He is chasing the play because he is coming from the bench after BU has already entered the zone. His effort to get into the play, prevent a scoring chance and his reaction to taking the penalty indicate a player who was skating hard, VERY committed to his team and into this play and this game...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dmQ_2a6WPo0

One final point, JVR is a supremely skilled and athletic individual. Players like JVR OFTEN look like they're not trying, because they are so fluid and skilled and the game comes naturally to them. Just because his legs aren't moving a mile a minute doesn't mean he's not giving the needed effort. Certainly not in this game. The film doesn't lie. I believe you should re-think him as a no-show in his last career game, Greg...

[HockeyRef]

Well Bceagle I'm feeling a 4-3 game! Problem is the ball is to cloudy to see the winner.

Given the most recent history between these two teams it really is hard to predict a clear winner. Not too many in the NCAA pick em selected UNH to prevail and the Jim and Dave show even thought one or the other would win.

Regardless UNH needs a win here no question about it! As always HR is hoping for a highly competitive game and having Vela and CHKell back is a positive thing. One goal game is my predict but am not at liberty to say who gets the W 😉! Go 'Cats!!!

[e.cat]

Yes, that is what I meant.

As to the BU/UNH '09 Regional Final - your memory is a little off, although I can certainly understand why this is your impression.

First of all, BU scored the game winner on the PP when Jason Lawrence's pass across the crease hit a sliding Kevin Kapstad and ricocheted into the net. JVR was the UNH player in the penalty box. You recollection of JVR being late into the play is because he was the last man into the zone on the preceding rush and hauled down Nick Bonino, who had a point-blank shot from the mid-slot, to take a late hooking penalty. Before you blame JVR's lazy back-check for resulting in a crucial penalty, take a look at the highlights of that game below. If you do, you'll first notice JVR generates a lot of chances for himself and for his teammates throughout the game (the real difference in the game was Kieran Milan's goaltending). UNH out-chanced BU and really could/should have won this game. If you skip ahead to the 5:40 mark you'll also notice JVR save a goal on a BU wraparound attempt and then clear the puck out of danger. Finally, at the 7:10 mark you'll get to the play that led to JVRs penalty...

Now, take a close look at the UNH forwards in the offensive zone. You'll see that the three forechecking forwards, beaten by the BU rush up ice are, #20, #39 and #17. That checks out with UNH's third line that day, consisting of DeSimone, Fortney and Thompson. At least one of those forwards heads to the bench instead of backchecking. JVR jumps on in his place and as a result is late into the zone. He IS NOT late because he wasn't committed to coverage in a big game. He is chasing the play because he is coming from the bench after BU has already entered the zone. His effort to get into the play, prevent a scoring chance and his reaction to taking the penalty indicate a player who was skating hard, VERY committed to his team and into this play and this game...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dmQ_2a6WPo0

One final point, JVR is a supremely skilled and athletic individual. Players like JVR OFTEN look like they're not trying, because they are so fluid and skilled and the game comes naturally to them. Just because his legs aren't moving a mile a minute doesn't mean he's not giving the needed effort. Certainly not in this game. The film doesn't lie. I believe you should re-think him as a no-show in his last career game, Greg...

Those highlights are amazing to watch Dan and I agree UNH should have won that game.

You make very convincing arguments for JvR. Not that I needed any convincing!! Sad some people have such an unfounded jaded view of him!

[HockeyRef]

Those highlights are amazing to watch Dan and I agree UNH should have won that game.

You make very convincing arguments for JvR. Not that I needed any convincing!! Sad some people have such an unfounded jaded view of him!

Boy I wish I had had a chance to see him play....went to a UNH v CC game back in 08...had no idea what I was watching on the ice. You guys have been blessed with so many amazing players be proud of that fact.

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!

Yes, that is what I meant.

As to the BU/UNH '09 Regional Final - your memory is a little off, although I can certainly understand why this is your impression.

First of all, BU scored the game winner on the PP when Jason Lawrence's pass across the crease hit a sliding Jerry Pollastrone and ricocheted into the net. JVR was the UNH player in the penalty box. You recollection of JVR being late into the play is because he was the last man into the zone on the preceding rush and hauled down Nick Bonino, who had a point-blank shot from the mid-slot, to take a late hooking penalty. Before you blame JVR's lazy back-check for resulting in a crucial penalty, take a look at the highlights of that game below. If you do, you'll first notice JVR generates a lot of chances for himself and for his teammates throughout the game (the real difference in the game was Kieran Milan's goaltending). UNH out-chanced BU and really could/should have won this game. If you skip ahead to the 5:40 mark you'll also notice JVR save a goal on a BU wraparound attempt and then clear the puck out of danger. Finally, at the 7:10 mark you'll get to the play that led to JVRs penalty...

Now, take a close look at the UNH forwards in the offensive zone. You'll see that the three forechecking forwards, beaten by the BU rush up ice are, #20, #39 and #17. That checks out with UNH's third line that day, consisting of DeSimone, Fortney and Thompson. At least one of those forwards heads to the bench instead of backchecking. JVR jumps on in his place and as a result is late into the zone. He IS NOT late because he wasn't committed to coverage in a big game. He is chasing the play because he is coming from the bench after BU has already entered the zone. His effort to get into the play, prevent a scoring chance and his reaction to taking the penalty indicate a player who was skating hard, VERY committed to his team and into this play and this game...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dmQ_2a6WPo0

One final point, JVR is a supremely skilled and athletic individual. Players like JVR OFTEN look like they're not trying, because they are so fluid and skilled and the game comes naturally to them. Just because his legs aren't moving a mile a minute doesn't mean he's not giving the needed effort. Certainly not in this game. The film doesn't lie. I believe you should re-think him as a no-show in his last career game, Greg...

What I remember most about JvR during his sophomore season is that Umile let him stand up at the end of the bench behind the left stanchion through entire games. It certainly seemed to me that he was totally involved in every minute of every game. I loved watching him glide around the big sheet, probably the best skater that I have seen at UNH over the years. I also remember that he seemed to have an injured right hand for last 10 or so games of the season, and that at the end of games he kept the right glove on and shook with his left hand going through the line.