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Thread: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

  1. #61

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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Dave outgrew Van Halen, briefly.
    Let's say they grew apart. I really liked the dynamic tension of DLR and EVH and I think it prevented them from becoming just another dumb pop band (DLR wins) or another smart but fungible High Guitar band (EVH wins).

    Great bands have an internal tug of war which is fought out in their music as much as their hotel rooms. So, Daltrey and Townshend fight for a decade and produce works of genius, then Daltrey gets distracted and tired and Townshend wins and the band produces car commercial pablum. Gabriel and Collins keep each other from turning Genesis into either Brian Eno drops acid naked in the forest with his pet albino giraffe or a poppy 16th birthday party band, then Gabriel leaves and Collins turns them into the latter. Waters' runaway ego is kept in check by the entire massed weight of the other members of Floyd until he finally triumphs, and Floyd turns into the equivalent of a navel-gazing angst blog. Mick and Keith careen off each other with actual blows (and blows) until they are both so tired and beaten up that the Stones become an assisted living facility in the mid-70s and have drooled along ever since. And Brian Wilson I guess had that internal conflict inside his own messed up head.

    At best a band has a ten year sweet spot until something happens that extinguishes that fire, and then all that's left is tiresome platinum records running on marketing momentum and public indifference to originality.
    Last edited by Kepler; 07-26-2017 at 09:36 AM.
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  2. #62
    Gurtholfin
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Roger Waters - 9/20/09 United Center

    Performing The Wall


    The show I was at. From a pure spectacle standpoint, this was incredible.

    The performance is great too.

  3. #63
    Gurtholfin
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Oh and Kep...

    Gabriel ended up in a similar place as Collins Genesis.

    The best (imo) was the Seconds Out era just after Pete left. Phil made the vocals a bit more accessible and it was before they changed to a pop band. I believe Hackett was still in the band too.

  4. #64
    Gurtholfin
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    And Van Halen had run its course.

    I and II were far in the rear view by that point.


    I agree though that all of the best bands - assuming it's a true collaborative effort - tear themselves apart eventually.

    It can be very hard to continually make compromises on your art - even if you know deep down that the shared result is typically stronger.

    At some point you just want to do it your way.

  5. #65

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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    Oh and Kep...

    Gabriel ended up in a similar place as Collins Genesis.

    The best (imo) was the Seconds Out era just after Pete left. Phil made the vocals a bit more accessible and it was before they changed to a pop band. I believe Hackett was still in the band too.
    Seconds Out (77) is brilliant. And Then There Were Three (78) is a muddle, except "Follow You" which is pure drivel although I am amazed it was actually not Collins' fault, it was Rutherford who I think better of. By Duke (80) they're bad, and then ABACAB (81) is duck sh-t.

    So there's a direct fall off from at least Seconds Out. "Supper's Ready" is probably the greatest Genesis song of all time; it's certainly the most fun. Collins may be, in the final analysis, Billy Joel with Less Talent, but his voice is lovely and that makes the SO vocals of SR superior to the studio version, but in every other way the studio version is better.

    From Trespass (70) to Wind & Wuthering (76) Genesis was dueling with Pink Floyd to be the most interesting successful band in the world, in large part I think because Gabriel and Collins were such radically different people with different visions. It's that tension that sharpens both minds.
    Last edited by Kepler; 07-26-2017 at 01:25 PM.
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  6. #66
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    Oh and Kep...

    Gabriel ended up in a similar place as Collins Genesis.

    The best (imo) was the Seconds Out era just after Pete left. Phil made the vocals a bit more accessible and it was before they changed to a pop band. I believe Hackett was still in the band too.
    To even compare Gabriel's solo work with the utter pap that Phil Collins ended up producing simply isn't a credible argument. Fine, Gabriel had top 40 hits with Sledgehammer and Big Time. Yeah, popular. Nowhere near the dreck that Collins churned out. And Collins' first solo record was actually pretty decent. It was after that he went all schmaltz.
    What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

  7. #67

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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    To even compare Gabriel's solo work with the utter pap that Phil Collins ended up producing simply isn't a credible argument. Fine, Gabriel had top 40 hits with Sledgehammer and Big Time. Yeah, popular. Nowhere near the dreck that Collins churned out. And Collins' first solo record was actually pretty decent. It was after that he went all schmaltz.
    But has he mentioned his wife? She left him, you know...
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  8. #68
    Gurtholfin
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    To even compare Gabriel's solo work with the utter pap that Phil Collins ended up producing simply isn't a credible argument. Fine, Gabriel had top 40 hits with Sledgehammer and Big Time. Yeah, popular. Nowhere near the dreck that Collins churned out. And Collins' first solo record was actually pretty decent. It was after that he went all schmaltz.

    Which is why I specifically compared it to Collins Genesis.

    I wasn't referring to Collins' solo work.


    Don't forget Kiss That Frog

  9. #69
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    Which is why I specifically compared it to Collins Genesis.

    I wasn't referring to Collins' solo work.


    Don't forget Kiss That Frog
    Kiss That Frog is great.

    Can't even compare to Collin's Genesis, at least after Duke, which was an ok album. At least it still had traces of their prog history, and wasn't just pure mainstream pop.

    In Gabriel's case, it's more the mainstream coming to him rather than the other way around.
    What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

  10. #70
    Gurtholfin
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Holy binge-fest!

    Roger Waters - 3/14/07 Santiago

    Don't believe I've ever found a recording of the show I was at on this tour.

    Was outside at Tinley Park on a blustery drizzly night and the inflatable pig broke it's tether and floated off into the night. Believe it was found in a farmer's field in Indiana.

    This Heart of the Sun is mesmerizing, especially the interplay between sax and keys (Jon Carin, I assume).

  11. #71
    Gurtholfin
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Kiss That Frog is great.

    Can't even compare to Collin's Genesis, at least after Duke, which was an ok album. At least it still had traces of their prog history, and wasn't just pure mainstream pop.

    In Gabriel's case, it's more the mainstream coming to him rather than the other way around.


    Semantics.

    Pete saw where the money was at.

    Specifically MTV.

  12. #72
    Gurtholfin
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    And I didn't say that Kiss That Frog was bad.

    I liked it enough at the time but it's a pop song and a guilty pleasure.

    Would you blast it stopped at a light with the windows down?

    I sure wouldn't.


    Couple thoughts on proginess...

    I saw Genesis in 92 and Pete, maybe that same year on the Us Tour - with Sinnead still in the band, no less.

    Both were actually excellent shows.

    Genesis was at Camp Randall and they had a really good light show and Phil was quite the showman.

    Gabriel was at an Amphitheater and he had Shankar with him doing the electric violin thing which was really cool.

    Genesis was by far the more proggy of the two shows. Domino, Driving the Last Spike and a few others that I can't recall.

    Pete's show was his latest two solo records along with Red Rain most likely.


    Your Eyes, Sledgehammer, Big Time, Kiss That Frog, Steam... all quality pop songs to different degrees of cheesiness or sappiness.

    Whether someone thinks they're better than Land of Confusion, Misunderstanding, Abacab, etc is hardly an winnable argument.

    it's a pointless argument and comes down to preference.

    These days, I prefer not to hear any of them.


    Love the rest of Us though. Digging, Come Talk, etc are great yet painful breakup songs
    Last edited by Gurtholfin; 07-26-2017 at 03:01 PM.

  13. #73

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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

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  14. #74
    I got nothing Slap Shot's Avatar
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Foo Fighters and Pearl Jam for me (don't care if you disagree) have held on very well for the most part and REM save a few missteps were quite viable until Bill Berry left. After they were mostly a miss but at least went out with a bang on their last record. Robert Smith never needed anyone else to create his best or worst with an often rotating lineup. Prince? Noel sure as s**t doesn't need Liam even if he'll never challenge the Beatles for legacy. Even Queen survived their foray into disco.

    Roger and David were unique in that one excelled in lyrics while the other excelled musically, and yet I've remained extremely impress with their solo works. Lennon, McCartney and George all had tremendous solo outputs and it's not fair to compare the results to their band.

    Although it's fair to say on the whole most artists run out of steam eventually whatever the cause, often is the case unrealistic expectations get in the way of a fan being able to appreciate what an artist puts out later on in years. The Foos won an extremely legitimate Grammy against all odds well into their tenure after already being able to rest on their laurels of greatest hits.

    I try my hardest to put all pretenses aside when listening to new music from well established acts/artists, although I too admittedly often fall prey to comparing their works.

  15. #75
    Gurtholfin
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post

    Roger and David were unique in that one excelled in lyrics while the other excelled musically, and yet I've remained extremely impress with their solo works.
    And both weren't shabby in the other areas either. Roger is (or was) a really good bass player and David has written some really good songs since 87.

    But I do agree with the assessment that Roger is the better lyricist/song writer and David more the virtuoso/musician.

    I also see them as yin and yang. Dark and light... in simplistic terms. Together, they make a very compelling and full experience.

    I love On an Island and like some of David's other solo stuff, but it lacks a certain edge that is found in Floyd.

    Roger's solo stuff could have used some input from the band as it is not really all that accessible to me - and many others that I know. It's some heady stuff and I respect it. It's just not pleasant to my ears. Someone that he'd listen to who could talk him down would have been beneficial imo.

    I also know some Roger heavies who love his solo stuff (and scoff at David ). To each their own as always.

    Both have been absolutely excellent every time I've seen them live.

    Floyd in 94 is likely my favorite concert that I've ever been to. I've run into so many people over the years who share that view. EVERYONE that I've ever discussed that tour with puts it as one of the pinnacle concert experiences of their young(ish) lives.

    Roger's Wall a few years back is right up there too and likely the greatest spectacle that I've ever seen in person. Just incredible and that album really resonates with me still.

    Wish I'd have seen both of those shows more than once.

    I would spontaneously combust if they ever did a tour together.

    Unfortunately, that will never happen.

    /floydianramble



    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post

    I try my hardest to put all pretenses aside when listening to new music from well established acts/artists,

    As do I.
    Last edited by Gurtholfin; 07-26-2017 at 07:22 PM.

  16. #76
    Gurtholfin
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Speaking of artists past their prime...

    Ryan Adams - Prisoner

    His latest. He's coming to play in Madison at an outdoor venue along with Emmylou Harris. Thought I should check out his latest effort.

    It's good if not remarkable.

    Loved Whiskeytown and his first few solo albums were great. Been hit or (mostly) miss (for me) since then.

    Will probably go to the show since the wife wants to and on the hopes of at least one GP song with Emmylou. Hell, I'd love a GP set, but the best I can probably hope for is a song.

  17. #77
    Gurtholfin
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Looking through my Ryan Adams stuff, I totally forgot about this little nug...

    Wasted Years

    Not sure if this was ever posted here.

  18. #78
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Perfect as in its placement on the list or perfect as in it being a good album?

    They have a number of albums on their list that simply do not belong.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

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  19. #79
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    Perfect as in its placement on the list or perfect as in it being a good album?

    They have a number of albums on their list that simply do not belong.
    Perfect in its utter snarkiness.
    What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

  20. #80
    DYKWIA? FadeToBlack&Gold's Avatar
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    Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Chinese Democracy isn't high enough. Mother Love Bone doesn't even belong on such a list.

    Cat Scratch Fever is only that high because Jezebel is written by women. In fact, I'm shocked it's not higher.

    I don't get the hate for The Doors or James Taylor at all.
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