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USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

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  • Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

    Everyone knows the Beatles. Everyone also knows Madonna, and frankly, after about 1990, she became a hack that latched on whatever current trend was the "in" thing.

    Yes, drastic statement, and I don't equate those two, just saying it to make a point. Just because you know of a band, doesn't mean that band is legendary.

    I do love this discussion, though. It's all opinion, and educated ones, at that.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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    • Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

      Just enter, "Beatles influence" in the search bar of YouTube and come back after a few hours. Dave Grohl of all people cite the Beatles and particularly Ringo (who Kep not surprisingly couldn't be more wrong about) as being massively influential on him. Listen to composer Howard Goodall express his admiration for their work.

      The Beatles influence today

      "In 2003 an article by The Independent explained that a third of all Beatles records are being bought people under the age 24 despite the fact the group split up before these people were even born."

      If it weren't for the Beatles I wouldn't be a musician

      If Bob Dylan of all people is saying they were doing things that no one else was doing and Jimmy Page is saying people like him wouldn't be around without them? "I think the Beatles are the reason I'm a musician" - Sting. Joe Perry said they were cool, Kurt Vonnegut, Alice Cooper, Gene Simmons, Brian Wilson "Sgt. Peppers is probably the greatest album I've ever heard", Tommy Hilfiger talks about their influence on fashion, Brian May, Joe Walsh, Robin Gibb, Keith Richards...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL4AAH1ua8o
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkCJcbeeTE4

      I can do this all day if I have to.

      You're not making a point Brent. Sorry.

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      • Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

        Are you done sucking Lennon's schlong?

        I do agree that Ringo is UNDERrated.
        Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
        Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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        • Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

          Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
          Are you done sucking Lennon's schlong?
          If you're done talking out of your ***.

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          • Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

            Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
            If you're done talking out of your ***.
            Not quite. I just don't put the Beatles as high up as you do. They are up there, no question, we agree on that. It's a matter of what level.
            Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
            Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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            • Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

              Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
              I do love this discussion, though. It's all opinion, and educated ones, at that.
              It's why I enjoy reading old Robert Christgau reviews. Even when he gives an album I enjoy a C, his snooty takes are guaranteed to be entertaining. Then when you think you've got him figured out, he'll go and surprise you by rating an album that's considered throwaway 80s garbage by a lot of people - Poison's Open Up and Say...Ahh! - a B+ because, "A residue of metal principle spoiled the top 40 on their debut, but here they sell out like they know this stuff is only good when it's really sh*tty."

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              • Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

                Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
                It's why I enjoy reading old Robert Christgau reviews. Even when he gives an album I enjoy a C, his snooty takes are guaranteed to be entertaining. Then when you think you've got him figured out, he'll go and surprise you by rating an album that's considered throwaway 80s garbage by a lot of people - Poison's Open Up and Say...Ahh! - a B+ because, "A residue of metal principle spoiled the top 40 on their debut, but here they sell out like they know this stuff is only good when it's really sh*tty."
                Sounds like Colin Covert reviewing movies for the Mpls/St Paul Star Tribune. Major snobbery.
                Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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                • Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

                  Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                  Nirvana and Pearl Jam are decade bands -- their music was dominant and important in the 90s. The Beatles and the Rolling Stones are two-decade bands -- their music was dominate and important in the 60s and 70s. Not talking about freshly produced music, obviously, after all the Beatles for all intents are only active in the 60s -- but the true, living influence of the band -- it's active influence, not nostalgia or the endless recapitulation of its fanbase.

                  For example, The Who, my personal favorite superband of the 70s, are a zero-decade band. They did not substantially change music for any meaningful length of time.

                  There's only one three-decade group in American postwar history. If you increase the timeframe to go back to 1900 there's probably an argument to be made for somebody like Robert Johnson.
                  You're going to have to explain that last one. Unless you're talking about not just the group but the solo acts to follow.
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                  • Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

                    Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                    Not quite. I just don't put the Beatles as high up as you do. They are up there, no question, we agree on that. It's a matter of what level.

                    You are talking out your ***.

                    Slappy cites source after source and you compare the Beatles to Madonna.


                    So if not the Beatles, who is your top? Sounds like there would be a bunch ahead of them by your comments.

                    Put up or shut up.

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                    • Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

                      Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                      Pearl Jam would have taken Nirvana's place, although I think PJ isn't grunge. They are/were straight up rock and roll. PJ has stood the test of time, also, which is one of the signs of greatness.
                      Correct; neither was Mother Love Bone.

                      Grunge is a marketing term that started out as a joke from Mudhoney's Mark Arm, but was harped upon by Sub Pop, and then by the major labels to describe all things Seattle or Seattle-sounding.

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                      • Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

                        Originally posted by Gurtholfin View Post
                        You are talking out your ***.

                        Slappy cites source after source and you compare the Beatles to Madonna.


                        So if not the Beatles, who is your top? Sounds like there would be a bunch ahead of them by your comments.

                        Put up or shut up.
                        I only compared the notoriety of the Beatles and Madonna. The WORLD knows both artists. That is not necessarily a factor in talent evaluation.

                        I'd say Led is over the Beatles. Stones.....on par. Chuck Berry over the Beatles. Jerry Lee Lewis, maybe not for musical talent necessarily, but for the attitude he brought to music that helped rock'n'roll form its identity. If Elvis wrote his own songs, this debate would be over in a heartbeat, but that is a major knock on Elvis.
                        Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                        Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                        Comment


                        • Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

                          Re-watched "Hip Hop Evolution" on Netflix over the last couple days. We have mentioned (sometimes briefly) grunge, etc. No rap. If we're talking the world of popular music (so yes, excluding classical, jazz, etc), rap should be included. And Grandmaster Flash would be bigger than the Beatles for influence/reach/etc. He laid the foundation of samples/beats as we know them...all because of a crayon. An entire genre...because of a wax stick of sorts.
                          Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                          Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                          Comment


                          • Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

                            Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
                            Kids don't know the Beatles? Kep you need to get out more.
                            Everyone knows the Beatles the way everyone knows the Flintstones -- Boomers never shut up about them. The broad cultural knowledge of the Beatles will end with the death of the Boomers. Even now they are really only known to people under 40 the way people know about disco: "it was a thing and people made a really big deal about it." But that's not the same as a group living in your veins.
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                            • Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

                              Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                              Re-watched "Hip Hop Evolution" on Netflix over the last couple days. We have mentioned (sometimes briefly) grunge, etc. No rap. If we're talking the world of popular music (so yes, excluding classical, jazz, etc), rap should be included. And Grandmaster Flash would be bigger than the Beatles for influence/reach/etc. He laid the foundation of samples/beats as we know them...all because of a crayon. An entire genre...because of a wax stick of sorts.
                              Have you seen The Defiant Ones? I'm only 2 episodes in but it's really good. Jimmy Iovine has to be the luckiest SOB who ever lived as far as being in the right place at the right time, again and again and again, completely by accident.
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                              • Re: USCHO Music Thread 4: Songs She Sang to Me, Songs She Brang to Me

                                Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                                You're going to have to explain that last one. Unless you're talking about not just the group but the solo acts to follow.
                                I'm talking about how the music is directly referenced, reused, and revived in later music. The Beatles did that for 2 decades of music but then they died off -- they became a sort of historical curiosity: a large branch of a tree but one which was no longer producing branches. There are several rap acts which are still being directly referenced, echoed, spoken to and about.

                                Music is like a Great Conversation that goes on forever, and where bands all live forever through their work. Every member of a group can be dead and that group's music can still be in conversation with a living group's music (the American Song Book is the history of the jazz branch of this conversation, and in it Louis Armstrong and Sarah Vaughn are still speaking directly to and through contemporary music).

                                The Conversation has nothing to do with sales or popularity: The Velvet Underground are far more influential than the Beatles and they probably sold less than one millionth of the Beatles' catalog. And critics don't really, either: I and the critics will take our love for the Gang of Four to our graves, and though influential within one branch of one genre of music they can't even compete with somebody like Wire within that channel, let alone across the breadth of music.

                                I'm talking about something akin to the citations index of peer reviewed journals. The Beatles are almost certainly the most cited group from say 1967 through 1977. But they then fall off precipitously. The only bands actually talking directly to the Beatles today are hipster lo-fi bands in Brooklyn, and part of the reason they are is they are playing off the fact that the Beatles fell out of wide influence. If they had not, those bands wouldn't have touched them because they wouldn't be twee and ironic.

                                The Beatles are Freudianism. It utterly dominated psychology for 20 solid years, and then within less than a decade it was eclipsed first by Behaviorism, then Gestalt, then Cognitive, until now it belongs to historiography. It's not living anymore. But of course the mass audience still thinks it's Psychology because when they studied it, it was. But they are the shadow and as they pass even the shadow won't be there anymore. Unless, of course, a sort of Neo-Thomist Beatlism rises (something which is probably a wild misreading of the original text, but which works for the living people of that day). That is entirely possible.
                                Last edited by Kepler; 07-31-2017, 11:07 AM.
                                Cornell University
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