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  • Re: POTUS 45.13 - CNN is still Fake News

    Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
    That might all well be true, but 2b requires the aid to the government's enemies. Russia was not a government enemy (i.e. there was no declaration of war against Russia and the U.S. and Russia were at peace during the election) to the extent as would lead to a treason charge. What they did could very well be criminal, but it was not treason.
    IMHO, that remains to be interpreted. Given that Russia has made a pretty strong effort to intervene into our election, hence our governmental system, it's a pretty short distance between a nominal foe and an enemy of the US. What Russia did was not an act of peace what so ever. And to take advantage of that act of "whatever you want to call it"- given what they did, it's REALLY close to treason by a pretty simple definition.

    When the word's "high level" and "sensitive" are used, it easily can be seen as an aggressive move from one government against another. And getting that information is illegal, to a point that had any US citizen helped get that information, it would be treason.

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    • Re: POTUS 45.13 - CNN is still Fake News

      Originally posted by alfablue View Post
      You must be reading a different set of e-mails that I've heard. Here's an annotation from NPR of the e-mails- here-http://www.npr.org/2017/07/11/536670194/donald-trump-jr-s-emails-about-meeting-with-russian-lawyer-annotated

      From Goldstone to don Jr:


      That hardly seems like the information is a waste of time- in fact, it appears that there's some very high level and probably illegally gotten documents. And this is the e-mail that jr got to entice him to the meeting.

      Here's another e-mail, making it pretty darned clear WHO jr was going to meet:



      And if there's any question about how much jr knew, and was in on the meeting- there's a whole list of other e-mails, but here's the one spelling out who would be at the meeting, from jr



      It's pretty hard to come up with a "duped" idea based on the e-mail chain, just as it's pretty hard to downplay what the information is going to be- it's pretty clear this was sensitive and very high level information that not an ordinary person can come up with, and jr was clearly told that.

      If you want to say this is nothing, where a business partner in Russia worked with the russian government to get information to help the don campaign with sensitive information that could have only come from the government, well, go for it, commrade.

      At this point, it's hard to look at you as anything different than someone who has the intention of taking our government down.
      Read this story before you go any further: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/u...candidacy.html

      In the last dozen paragraphs they have quotes from the English guy saying the meeting was a complete waste of time. He obviously could be lying, but that is the story for now.
      Originally posted by BobbyBrady
      Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

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      • Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
        Read this story before you go any further: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/u...candidacy.html

        In the last dozen paragraphs they have quotes from the English guy saying the meeting was a complete waste of time. He obviously could be lying, but that is the story for now.
        No, that's what you would like the story to be. The real story is that the Trump campaign took a meeting thinking they were going to get damaging information on Clinton from the Russian government. This isn't hard.

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        • Re: POTUS 45.13 - CNN is still Fake News

          Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
          Read this story before you go any further: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/u...candidacy.html

          In the last dozen paragraphs they have quotes from the English guy saying the meeting was a complete waste of time. He obviously could be lying, but that is the story for now.
          You do realize that what you are reading is a contemporary interview of Goldstone, right?

          Whereas a year ago, he e-mailed jr claiming the information was "high level" and "sensitive".

          So recently, when we find out he arranged a meeting between russians and members of the don campaign, he denies that it was important, when a year ago, he said it was sensitive and high level. Given YOUR level of back tracking and excuse making, it's pretty natural that we expect him to do the same.

          And this is a guy who has made money off of don. So a conspiracy expert as yourself should easily come up with the "excuse" line at this point.

          None the less, the actual content of the information and meeting is moot. The fact that jr knew he who he was meeting, and what he expected to get is the important part. His plans to use information gotten illegally by another government for his own benefit is pretty clear.

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          • Re: POTUS 45.13 - CNN is still Fake News

            Joe Scarborough is quitting the Republican Party.
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            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
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            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
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            • Re: POTUS 45.13 - CNN is still Fake News

              Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
              I wasn't saying me specifically. I think we're getting close to time to move on unless something big comes out though.
              Like this isn't big. The son of the Republican nominee, meeting at Trump Tower with a Kremlin lawyer to get dirt on Hillary Clinton, on the exact same day his father, Priebus, and who knows who else are having a meeting at Trump Tower to discuss what attack strategies they can use against Hillary Clinton.

              I'm sure it's all just a yuge coincidence.
              What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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              • Re: POTUS 45.13 - CNN is still Fake News

                Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
                Again, Trump & Co didn't arrange the meeting. They were sought out with the information.
                A good friend of Don Sr, who worked with him on the Miss Universe pageant, arranged the meeting between the Russian lawyer and Don Jr.
                What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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                • Re: POTUS 45.13 - CNN is still Fake News

                  Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                  Well, there is the idea that don's guys went into the meeting with the idea of helping out the russian interest of making don president. And given the number of meetings that appear to have covered sanctions before don was president- there's a pretty decent trail of giving aid to the russians.

                  While I won't say treason right now, at this point, it would not surprise me what so ever.

                  One is true by default of running for President, and 2b looks highly likely at this point. WE (the public) don't have full 2b evidence, true.
                  But, if it turns out that this information sharing was all about getting Trump elected in order for the quid pro quo to overturn sanctions against the Russian government......................

                  That's some pretty major aid and comfort.
                  What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

                  Comment


                  • Re: POTUS 45.13 - CNN is still Fake News

                    Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                    IMHO, that remains to be interpreted. Given that Russia has made a pretty strong effort to intervene into our election, hence our governmental system, it's a pretty short distance between a nominal foe and an enemy of the US. What Russia did was not an act of peace what so ever. And to take advantage of that act of "whatever you want to call it"- given what they did, it's REALLY close to treason by a pretty simple definition.

                    When the word's "high level" and "sensitive" are used, it easily can be seen as an aggressive move from one government against another. And getting that information is illegal, to a point that had any US citizen helped get that information, it would be treason.
                    Originally posted by rufus View Post
                    But, if it turns out that this information sharing was all about getting Trump elected in order for the quid pro quo to overturn sanctions against the Russian government......................

                    That's some pretty major aid and comfort.
                    You're focusing on the aid and comfort portion and ignoring that the aid and comfort must be to the government's enemies. There is legal precedent basically limiting who an enemy is to those who the United States has formally declared war against. Moreover, the aid and comfort subelement is generally not even applicable during peacetime. In short, legally speaking, helping Russia is not a treasonous act. As I said before, it could very well be (likely is) a violation of other criminal laws, but it is not treason.
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                    • Re: POTUS 45.13 - CNN is still Fake News

                      Colbert is killing it tonight. The trombone joke just about made me go hypoxic.

                      The chalkboard! You could see it a million miles away but it was still brilliant.
                      Last edited by dxmnkd316; 07-11-2017, 10:51 PM.
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                      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
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                      • Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                        Not the same thing. Democrats ARE NOT IN POWER.
                        Not according to Mitch McConnell.
                        McConnell said in a statement Tuesday that the five-week break will be shortened “to provide more time to complete action on important legislative items and process nominees that have been stalled by a lack of cooperation from our friends across the aisle.”
                        Who knew having a sweeping majority through Congress and rhe White House doesn't allow the controlling party to do as they please?

                        All those years of Democrat blaming, and now that they've been given all they wanted, they're still making excuses for not doing anything.
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                        • Re: POTUS 45.13 - CNN is still Fake News

                          Originally posted by aparch View Post
                          Not according to Mitch McConnell.

                          Who knew having a sweeping majority through Congress and rhe White House doesn't allow the controlling party to do as they please?

                          All those years of Democrat blaming, and now that they've been given all they wanted, they're still making excuses for not doing anything.
                          They've had a 5 on 3 since the puck was dropped and still haven't gotten a shot on goal, so they're blaming the trap. Sooner or later, they'll have to pull their president.

                          Comment


                          • Re: POTUS 45.13 - CNN is still Fake News

                            Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
                            You're focusing on the aid and comfort portion and ignoring that the aid and comfort must be to the government's enemies. There is legal precedent basically limiting who an enemy is to those who the United States has formally declared war against. Moreover, the aid and comfort subelement is generally not even applicable during peacetime. In short, legally speaking, helping Russia is not a treasonous act. As I said before, it could very well be (likely is) a violation of other criminal laws, but it is not treason.
                            No, Russia got don elected, as they wanted to. So that's aid #1. (BTW, apparently it is illegal for foreign nationals to supply information for campaigns- it's part of campaign finance)

                            #2- we know that don lifted sanctions on russia- so they helped, and then got something out of it.

                            #3- they also did a number on the public confidence of our government and the election system. That one is what bugs me the most.

                            You suggest that "aid and comfort" is not applicable during peacetime. But what about the whole period of the cold war, when there was not a war, except in words. Given that Russia's act can easily be determined as an act of war, given that it's attempt was more than likely there to destabilize the west as punitive damage for us not liking their recent moves- the legality of treason is, to me, a lot closer than you think. History has shown that you don't need a declared or shooting war to have treason.

                            It will be interesting to see where this goes.

                            Comment


                            • Re: POTUS 45.13 - CNN is still Fake News

                              Originally posted by aparch View Post
                              Not according to Mitch McConnell.

                              Who knew having a sweeping majority through Congress and rhe White House doesn't allow the controlling party to do as they please?

                              All those years of Democrat blaming, and now that they've been given all they wanted, they're still making excuses for not doing anything.
                              whoever is running against Mitch should clearly point out the big obvious- you had a majority in both houses, you had the presidency, and you could do nothing. Nothing at all. What kind of leadership is that? You don't deserve to be a leader of our government when you can't lead from that kind of advantage. Even for an R to challenge him, I'd be all over that.

                              Comment


                              • Re: POTUS 45.13 - CNN is still Fake News

                                I've heard multiple talking heads on TV use the term "nothing burger" to brush off the Donny Jr dirt. When did it become acceptable for an adult to say "nothing burger" in a professional context?

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