Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 72

Thread: Making a Murderer updates

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    5,872

    Making a Murderer updates

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/06/14/making-murderer-steven-averys-lawyer-says-victims-ex-boyfriend-killed-her/395317001/

    If this has been posted/discussed already I apologize.

    But good god, how can the cops not have at least questioned Ryan Hillegas as part of their investigation. Now knowing he outright lied on multiple occasions about being on avery's property, about halbach's vehicle damag etc.

    I have very little faith the judge will do the right thing here and call for a retrial. It may take the ACLU or a federal case with regard to Hillegas accessing TH's voicemail without authorization to break this open. Zellner is a hero, but the State of Wisconsin DOJ has decided to circle the wagons and continue to keep Avery behind bars in the grossest interpretation of Kafka's The Trial that we have been made aware of.

    Maybe they can get halbach's family to see what really transpired here or get Bloedorn to rat out Hillegas?

  2. #2
    2147483647
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    23,275

    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    I think we can all agree that WI sucks.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Crystal, MN
    Posts
    38,087

    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by solovsfett View Post
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/06/14/making-murderer-steven-averys-lawyer-says-victims-ex-boyfriend-killed-her/395317001/

    If this has been posted/discussed already I apologize.

    But good god, how can the cops not have at least questioned Ryan Hillegas as part of their investigation. Now knowing he outright lied on multiple occasions about being on avery's property, about halbach's vehicle damag etc.

    I have very little faith the judge will do the right thing here and call for a retrial. It may take the ACLU or a federal case with regard to Hillegas accessing TH's voicemail without authorization to break this open. Zellner is a hero, but the State of Wisconsin DOJ has decided to circle the wagons and continue to keep Avery behind bars in the grossest interpretation of Kafka's The Trial that we have been made aware of.

    Maybe they can get halbach's family to see what really transpired here or get Bloedorn to rat out Hillegas?
    I said as I watched the series I thought he was the guy. Something about his story didnt stick and the fact that he could get into her phone seemed weird. The defense should have shredded him apart.
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    5,872
    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    I said as I watched the series I thought he was the guy. Something about his story didnt stick and the fact that he could get into her phone seemed weird. The defense should have shredded him apart.
    Agreed.

    After reading Zellner's overview this video becomes more chilling to me.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GRa7yPDjBzk

    And halbach's keeps looking over for reassurance or something. Don't know what that's really about.

  5. #5
    not particularly bad
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Yost ice arena
    Posts
    9,088

    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    I said as I watched the series I thought he was the guy. Something about his story didnt stick and the fact that he could get into her phone seemed weird. The defense should have shredded him apart.
    I had similar thoughts when I watched it.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    5,872

    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    7th circuit rules 2-1 to uphold prior ruling on Dassey, basically overturns the conviction based on a false/coerced confession.

    In many respects Ken Kratz's hyperbolic (and entirely fictional) story about rape and torture prejudiced not just the jury pool but many people in the State. BD's false confession helped seal Avery's fate for many.

    It would be a delicious irony if this new ruling in Dassey will somehow increase the odds the judge will rule favorably in Zellner's post- conviction motion

  7. #7
    I got nothing Slap Shot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Clark Freeport Zone, Philippines
    Posts
    30,153

    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by JF_Gophers View Post
    I think we can all agree that WI sucks.
    Heyoooo

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    5,872

    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Well,...http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/...-trial-w507080

    I just don't understand how dumb the Wisconsin AG is.
    Zellner is going to make fools of the WI DOJ and I cannot wait to see that happen.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    5,872

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,005
    **** this is Crazy. It supports the theory that a lot of people had after watching it that either the ex boyfriend and/or Bobby Dassey was involved.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Posts
    6,738

    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    The problem for Avery, though, is alluded to in the documents filed by his lawyer and linked to in the Newsweek article. It's the problem of timing.

    Avery had his trial. I think he also had a number of motions for post-conviction relief that were denied. Then, his current lawyer filed a motion last June, which was denied, and for which she now seeks reconsideration. In each of these cases she has suggested there is "new evidence" that requires a new trial.

    The problem always comes about in showing the new evidence. Wasn't there a famous quote or case written by Scalia that talked about this issue? There is no basis for coming in and asking to be let out of jail even if you can prove you are innocent. You actually have to show some sort of technical violation of the process that put you there, or show that science has now developed to the point where evidence that was not available 20 years ago when you were convicted (say, DNA evidence) is available now and shows that you couldn't have done it.

    I think unofan said he or his wife does some criminal trial work so I'm sure he can shed more light on the issue, but I'm not sure it's going to be enough for Avery to come in and just show he is innocent.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,005

    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Well they definitely met the criteria you outlined (new scientific advancements and technical errors specifically as well as incompetent defense).

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Posts
    6,738

    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Well they definitely met the criteria you outlined (new scientific advancements and technical errors specifically as well as incompetent defense).
    Yeah, maybe. I just skimmed the legal motion papers and didn't spend any real time with them. The "new evidence" argument that I recall had to do with some scanning of the bullet, and a question of what that showed. A lot of the rest of the argument was about the claims of ineffective assistance of counsel, including a claim that one set of Avery's lawyers was ineffective for not claiming that Avery's other lawyers were ineffective. It seemed, at least to me, to be grasping a bit. But it'll be interesting to see what happens.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,005

    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Yeah for sure, the ineffective counsel thing might be a tough burden to overcome and generally is in other cases like this (Adnan Syed). They did bring up a potential Brady violation though as well.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Crystal, MN
    Posts
    38,087

    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    The problem for Avery, though, is alluded to in the documents filed by his lawyer and linked to in the Newsweek article. It's the problem of timing.

    Avery had his trial. I think he also had a number of motions for post-conviction relief that were denied. Then, his current lawyer filed a motion last June, which was denied, and for which she now seeks reconsideration. In each of these cases she has suggested there is "new evidence" that requires a new trial.

    The problem always comes about in showing the new evidence. Wasn't there a famous quote or case written by Scalia that talked about this issue? There is no basis for coming in and asking to be let out of jail even if you can prove you are innocent. You actually have to show some sort of technical violation of the process that put you there, or show that science has now developed to the point where evidence that was not available 20 years ago when you were convicted (say, DNA evidence) is available now and shows that you couldn't have done it.

    I think unofan said he or his wife does some criminal trial work so I'm sure he can shed more light on the issue, but I'm not sure it's going to be enough for Avery to come in and just show he is innocent.
    You mean this quote?

    "mere factual innocence is no reason not to carry out a death sentence properly reached."

    Yes Scalia believes that just because new evidence comes around that may prove innocence that doesnt mean you should have a right to present said evidence and be freed. (Thomas agrees) Scalia apparently never heard the old adage about letting 100 guilty men go free instead of letting one innocent man go to prison.

    Further proof btw that Scalia was scum.
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

  16. #16
    Generic Catchy Message
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Willoughby, 1888
    Posts
    7,266
    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    You mean this quote?

    "mere factual innocence is no reason not to carry out a death sentence properly reached."

    Yes Scalia believes that just because new evidence comes around that may prove innocence that doesnt mean you should have a right to present said evidence and be freed. (Thomas agrees) Scalia apparently never heard the old adage about letting 100 guilty men go free instead of letting one innocent man go to prison.

    Further proof btw that Scalia was scum.
    And people look up to that guy? Yeesh.

    The boyfriend always seemed a little suspicious, as did the two relatives whose alibi shouldn't have been an alibi at all as it occurred approximately an hour after they said it did.

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,005

    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post
    The boyfriend always seemed a little suspicious, as did the two relatives whose alibi shouldn't have been an alibi at all as it occurred approximately an hour after they said it did.
    Their alibi was basically each other.

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Posts
    6,738

    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    5,872
    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Travesty. It will be kicked over to scotus now.

    While his coerced confession ****ed both himself and Avery in the court of public opinion I truly feel Zellner will get Avery out if not by the new evidence and affidavits then by the 3-4 Brady violations Kratz committed. How the hell they could justify Dassey's continued incarceration after that will be very interesting.

    But this will take at least two more years to play out. Zellner will have to wait for federal courts to address the Brady violations as I don't believe the appeals court will be sympathetic. All of WI DOJ etc have circled the wagons.

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Further on down the road
    Posts
    60,348

    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by solovsfett View Post
    Travesty. It will be kicked over to scotus now.

    While his coerced confession ****ed both himself and Avery in the court of public opinion I truly feel Zellner will get Avery out if not by the new evidence and affidavits then by the 3-4 Brady violations Kratz committed. How the hell they could justify Dassey's continued incarceration after that will be very interesting.

    But this will take at least two more years to play out. Zellner will have to wait for federal courts to address the Brady violations as I don't believe the appeals court will be sympathetic. All of WI DOJ etc have circled the wagons.
    Ugh.

    State attorneys asked the full 7th Circuit to review the case, arguing the ruling called long-accepted police interrogation tactics into question.
    "My God, don't you realize how many people we railroad with coerced confessions? Won't someone think of the police?!"
    Cornell University
    NCAA Champion 1967, 1970
    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •