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RPI Engineers 2017-2018

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  • #16
    Re: RPI Engineers 2017-2018

    Originally posted by hab View Post
    There is a lot of wisdom here folks. As someone who has followed the RPI women's team as closely, or more closely, than anyone else over the last dozen years, and listening to RB who has surely followed the men's team more closely than anyone else, I have to say that all of those who called for Seth Appert's head and for John Burke's head, may need to look a little deeper if they want to see a return to the days when "RPI" was equated with hockey excellence. Reading the comments of the AD on the lame justifications for firing Burke really cause me to doubt whether the admin is committed to hockey excellence.

    Two things are clear: 1) we need to thank John Burke for his tremendous dedication to this program and wish him all the best in his future endeavours...a real class act who was respected by the young women who played for him; 2) we need to turn the page now and hope that RPI finds a positive path forward.

    Like any enterprise or endevour you need buy-in from the top down. Right now faith in the top truly seems to be lacking.

    Though I take issue with your comments about justification of firing JB. If SA was canned how can you keep JB with the same results or worse. Part of 1) is questionable as well. If you are really that close to the program you would know. 2) Well maybe the right person gets picked for the HC position, but calling them interim will hurt recruiting. Not doing a national search is a bit of a joke. Seriously give me any logical reason a national search is not being done?

    How do you think those young women feel at the moment being put in this position. Look at what happened at Union and why, that team is on the up.

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    • #17
      Re: RPI Engineers 2017-2018

      Originally posted by Northbynorthwest View Post
      Like any enterprise or endevour you need buy-in from the top down. Right now faith in the top truly seems to be lacking.

      Though I take issue with your comments about justification of firing JB. If SA was canned how can you keep JB with the same results or worse. Part of 1) is questionable as well. If you are really that close to the program you would know. 2) Well maybe the right person gets picked for the HC position, but calling them interim will hurt recruiting. Not doing a national search is a bit of a joke. Seriously give me any logical reason a national search is not being done?

      How do you think those young women feel at the moment being put in this position. Look at what happened at Union and why, that team is on the up.
      Let me try giving you one. Maybe there is not enough time to do a national search. With the season right around the corner, many established coaches are shifting their focus to the start of the season, or maybe, just maybe, Dr. McElroy thinks that the best candidate is already employed by RPI. With the schedule already out and the freshmen first year students coming back to school soon, continuity is important. Better to have a one year interim coach who's already familiar with the team, than to have no coach starting from scratch this close to the season. Besides, you can always re-evaluate at the end of the year and if it's not the right fit, you can do it right.
      Uncle Mickey: July 23, 1950-July 22, 2003

      WRPI, 91.5 FM...usually color commentary.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post
        I am not convinced that the RPI administration regards either hockey team as important.
        I'm sure the AD had made this decision a while ago, like right after the playoffs, but was just looking for what he thought was the right time to pull the trigger. No reason to wait this long if he really wanted to make it appear like he actually gives a poop about the women's team. This is just plain stupidity and disrespect for the program.

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        • #19
          Re: RPI Engineers 2017-2018

          Originally posted by shelfit View Post
          I'm sure the AD had made this decision a while ago, like right after the playoffs, but was just looking for what he thought was the right time to pull the trigger. No reason to wait this long if he really wanted to make it appear like he actually gives a poop about the women's team. This is just plain stupidity and disrespect for the program.
          Though I'm a member of the graduate school alumni of RPI and follow the school somewhat, I have to confess I'm not really in touch with RPI hockey closely these days. That being said, I offer a couple of thoughts here:

          - Totally agree that this inidciates that women's hockey is less important than men's hockey. But is that surprising? Isn't that true at virtually every D1 school? Revenue vs non-revenue, high visibility vs low visibility, etc.

          - Totally don't believe that the real reason they waited is that they could only do 1 national search at a time. I mean, it is even stupid for the AD to say something along those lines - makes him look like an idiot.

          - More likely, something like this:
          - School economics at RPI are not very good (debt is very low rated and they are struggling financially). This is a result (by majority opinion of alumni) of extremely poor fiscal management by the current administration and high investment in fringe areas (a massively expensive state of the art performing arts center at RPI??? Seriously??).
          - The school has seriously upgraded its investment in D3 programs - see the football stadium and other new facilities that have been built in the last ~10 years. My guess is that these are imposing a very large depreciation and maintenance expense on the school that they probably poorly planned for. Additionally, many of these programs have been successful and they realize they are more of a draw for the school then D1 women's hockey.
          - Severance packages, coach searches, and hiring coaches can be expensive. They probably have severe budget restrictions related to above and a salary cap on coach expenses. They needed to figure out how much the men's coaches were going to absorb of the available funding before they proceeded with the women's team. My guess is was a lot and more than they expected.
          - Burke is probably well paid given he has been the HC for 14 years and likely has gotten annual raises. Cutting him was a savings (and easily justified). They will use a low paid interim this season, solving a short term issue for next season.
          - They will do a national search next year in a different budget year when they can afford it. And they will go all U Maine on it to keep the costs down by underpaying the market.

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          • #20
            Re: RPI Engineers 2017-2018

            Given the source of our last two women's coaches (assistants from the men's program), I wonder if Brian Vines has lined a position for the coming year. He certainly has more experience than either of our women's team assistants. Perhaps he'd make a good interim coach while retaining the current assistants in their present roles to provide experience on the women's side.

            As for this entire process, it's insane. "Interim coach" is a title that should only be used if you have to make an in-season appointment due to a major issue. Burke had just come into alignment with the new dynamics of recruitment which seems to have evolved from the men's side. Increasingly players are committing two and even three years out. Having a 9 month interim is a formula for losing all of the current recruits while putting the new, mid--2018 version in the unenviable position of starting from scratch with few freshman (at least when you terminate at the end of the year you generally keep most of the freshman if, for no other reason, than it's too late to make alternate plans) and no pipeline. Can you imagine even trying to recruit players for the next nine months? What can you tell them about the future of the program?

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            • #21
              Re: RPI Engineers 2017-2018

              Originally posted by rpi82 View Post
              Given the source of our last two women's coaches (assistants from the men's program), I wonder if Brian Vines has lined a position for the coming year. He certainly has more experience than either of our women's team assistants. Perhaps he'd make a good interim coach while retaining the current assistants in their present roles to provide experience on the women's side.

              As for this entire process, it's insane. "Interim coach" is a title that should only be used if you have to make an in-season appointment due to a major issue. Burke had just come into alignment with the new dynamics of recruitment which seems to have evolved from the men's side. Increasingly players are committing two and even three years out. Having a 9 month interim is a formula for losing all of the current recruits while putting the new, mid--2018 version in the unenviable position of starting from scratch with few freshman (at least when you terminate at the end of the year you generally keep most of the freshman if, for no other reason, than it's too late to make alternate plans) and no pipeline. Can you imagine even trying to recruit players for the next nine months? What can you tell them about the future of the program?
              As for your first sentence, to be fair, RPI launched a DIII program knowing that it would eventually go to DI, and since women's hockey was relatively new at the time, Bill Cahill was the logical choice to get the team established, and was doing just that. Fridgen was well-established and as it turned out, would spend the next ten seasons as the men's coach. In Burke's case, the sudden death of Cahill (with two and a half weeks left before the season) sort of left RPI in a lurch, so they really had nowhere else to turn. They haven't really HAD to take their time with the women's team. Agreed that the timing of Burke's release was terrible given the circumstances, but as I said before, it's easier to hire an interim than a brand new coach at this point.
              Uncle Mickey: July 23, 1950-July 22, 2003

              WRPI, 91.5 FM...usually color commentary.

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              • #22
                Re: RPI Engineers 2017-2018

                There was a post on the RPI-Sports mailing list apparently by Evan Tironese's father that he heard that the new women's coach is indeed Bryan Vines. He asked for confirmation. I wonder if he read rpi82's post.
                Last edited by Ralph Baer; 06-27-2017, 01:38 AM.
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                Let's Go 'Tute!

                Maxed out at 2,147,483,647 at 10:00 AM EDT 9/17/07.

                2012 Poser Of The Year

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                • #23
                  Re: RPI Engineers 2017-2018

                  Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post
                  There was a post on the RPI-Sports mailing list apparently by Evan Tironese's father that he heard that the new women's coach is indeed Bryan Vines. He asked for confirmation. I wonder if he read rpi82's post.
                  sigpic

                  Let's Go 'Tute!

                  Maxed out at 2,147,483,647 at 10:00 AM EDT 9/17/07.

                  2012 Poser Of The Year

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                  • #24
                    Re: RPI Engineers 2017-2018

                    There it is. Given that he's carrying the interim tag, I don't know if it's really fair to expect Vines to "turn around" the program, but hopefully he can at the very least put us more comfortably in the playoffs (i.e., competing for 5th and 6th, not scrapping for 8th).
                    RPI Pep Band
                    GO GO GO YOU RED RED RED!!! and I guess Yale?
                    🎶🎺🎺🎺 LET'S GO BLUES!

                    2017-2018 RPI Pick to Click – Champion
                    2013-2016 RPI Pick to Click – Back-to-Back-to-Back Runner-Up
                    2014-15, 2018-19 ECAC Pick the Standings – Last Place

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                    • #25
                      Re: RPI Engineers 2017-2018

                      Originally posted by lugnut92 View Post
                      There it is. Given that he's carrying the interim tag, I don't know if it's really fair to expect Vines to "turn around" the program, but hopefully he can at the very least put us more comfortably in the playoffs (i.e., competing for 5th and 6th, not scrapping for 8th).
                      If he wants serious consideration for other HC positions or higher level AC positions it's completely fair. You expect the women to skate and play hard don't you?

                      You might want to define "turn around" as well.

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                      • #26
                        Re: RPI Engineers 2017-2018

                        Originally posted by giwan View Post
                        If he wants serious consideration for other HC positions or higher level AC positions it's completely fair. You expect the women to skate and play hard don't you?

                        You might want to define "turn around" as well.
                        By "turn around" I mean build the program into contending for the top of the ECAC and tourney berths. Obviously I'd like him to recruit well and start us down that path, but if he's only here for one year, you can't expect him to do it all.
                        RPI Pep Band
                        GO GO GO YOU RED RED RED!!! and I guess Yale?
                        🎶🎺🎺🎺 LET'S GO BLUES!

                        2017-2018 RPI Pick to Click – Champion
                        2013-2016 RPI Pick to Click – Back-to-Back-to-Back Runner-Up
                        2014-15, 2018-19 ECAC Pick the Standings – Last Place

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by lugnut92 View Post
                          By "turn around" I mean build the program into contending for the top of the ECAC and tourney berths. Obviously I'd like him to recruit well and start us down that path, but if he's only here for one year, you can't expect him to do it all.
                          But doesn't that make the point. Only one year.

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                          • #28
                            Re: RPI Engineers 2017-2018

                            Originally posted by giwan View Post
                            But doesn't that make the point. Only one year.
                            We don't know that either, though. He is "interim" for a year, if he proves himself, more than likely he'll stay on.

                            When Cahill died, Burke was the "interim" coach too.
                            Uncle Mickey: July 23, 1950-July 22, 2003

                            WRPI, 91.5 FM...usually color commentary.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by jericho View Post
                              We don't know that either, though. He is "interim" for a year, if he proves himself, more than likely he'll stay on.

                              When Cahill died, Burke was the "interim" coach too.
                              He is interim in name only simply because they do have to follow proper protocol. Make no mistake about it, this is your head coach for some time to come. After all, his wife works in the athletic department too. The ONLY way this won't be true is if he somehow royally screws up, and he has more than enough coaching experience in general to not screw up. Besides, his wife will hopefully be able to help him figure out how to deal with a team of women. I'm going to predict a better record next season than they had this season, which I know isn't a very bold prediction, but there it is anyway.
                              Last edited by shelfit; 06-28-2017, 11:02 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Re: RPI Engineers 2017-2018

                                Originally posted by jericho View Post
                                We don't know that either, though. He is "interim" for a year, if he proves himself, more than likely he'll stay on.When Cahill died, Burke was the "interim" coach too.
                                You say "interim" like that's a good thing. Great Burke finished bringing the program to DI which would have happened no matter who was at the helm. The record otherwise speaks for itself, and that similar record got SA canned.

                                Would you be OK with an "interim" coach title for the men's team? How much would it cost to do a national search? Don't need to hire a firm, do it in house.

                                Again Vines may be great and my guess he will be HC as there are other connections; long as he doesn't really screw something up. It screams at the edges of Title IX

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