Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

[5mn_Major]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

We have to pass tax reform to know what's in it? https://www.infowars.com/gop-tax-bil...ed-in-secrecy/

Kansas appears to be such a spectacular failure. About 4 years after the Brownback tax cuts, GDP growth in the state for Q4 of 2016 was .1% tied with Mississippi and good for last place nationally. Some believe that cutting taxes grows the economy...what it does is makes the state spend less in the private sector which results in stagnant outcomes. And it makes it difficult to balance the budget...yes, that's still a thing.

Not sure why anyone would want to roll that out...

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

mookie is all for reform.... but that should begin with rates being kept as is to start. let's allow for mtge interest deductions to be only on your lowest cost home for 1.

Mortgage interest deduction is a huge benefit to the lenders. It gives people the false sense of mind that they're getting a break by not accelerating their payments, when in all reality they're making the purchase price of their home more expensive by the month, and should the deductions be above anywhere from 6400-12800 (depending on your situation), anything in excess you're really spending 3-10 times as much, and to some bank instead of the government.

[joecct]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

If a bill cuts the mortgage deduction, how much does the housing market tank?

[St. Clown]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

Mortgage interest deduction is a huge benefit to the lenders. It gives people the false sense of mind that they're getting a break by not accelerating their payments, when in all reality they're making the purchase price of their home more expensive by the month, and should the deductions be above anywhere from 6400-12800 (depending on your situation), anything in excess you're really spending 3-10 times as much, and to some bank instead of the government.

All of that is absolutely true. However, Congress is trying to close Pandora's box, which has already been priced into the purchase of homes to date, and thus would negatively affect the principal value of everyone who owns a home at this very moment, should that portion of the tax bill become law. The mortgage deduction truly is Pandora's box, and you have to be very careful in how you shut it or you'll negatively impact middle class America directly and direly, and rich people have already hit the taxable income cap for deductions, so they're not impacted regardless.

It's a de facto tax increase on the middle class. It'll play about as well as Fiddler on the Roof at a KKK rally.

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

It'll play about as well as Fiddler on the Roof at a KKK rally.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

All of that is absolutely true. However, Congress is trying to close Pandora's box, which has already been priced into the purchase of homes to date, and thus would negatively affect the principal value of everyone who owns a home at this very moment, should that portion of the tax bill become law. The mortgage deduction truly is Pandora's box, and you have to be very careful in how you shut it or you'll negatively impact middle class America directly and direly, and rich people have already hit the taxable income cap for deductions, so they're not impacted regardless.

It's a de facto tax increase on the middle class. It'll play about as well as Fiddler on the Roof at a KKK rally.

Then we might as well pull the trigger and watch the housing prices fall. Eventually, we all must stand in our truth. The biggest fiscal problem affecting EVERYONE, including government, is credit and borrowing. It's time we face it.

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

Then we might as well pull the trigger and watch the housing prices fall. Eventually, we all must stand in our truth. The biggest fiscal problem affecting EVERYONE, including government, is credit and borrowing. It's time we face it.

If it really is a problem (and I don't see how it is, but I am a caveman) then just grandfather houses bought before the law takes effect and let the sale of those properties have some kind of one-time sheltering to reflect the loss in the resale value. Problem phases out for all new homes immediately, and for all legacy homes as the years go by.

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

The biggest fiscal problem affecting EVERYONE, including government, is credit and borrowing.

No, the biggest problem is refusal to collect appropriate revenue from the 1%. That's where our debt comes from.

If you want to hit spending hit the military-surveillance complex, not middle class tax relief. The former is where the big savings is, with budgets 3 or 4 times larger than necessary, all for make work and corporate welfare.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

If it really is a problem (and I don't see how it is, but I am a caveman) then just grandfather houses bought before the law takes effect and let the sale of those properties have some kind of one-time sheltering to reflect the loss in the resale value. Problem phases out for all new homes immediately, and for all legacy homes as the years go by.

There's already a reflection of the loss; you claim it on Schedule D of the 1040, year over year untill the full loss has been accounted for. And where was this "sheltering" in ~2008 during the first housing bust? If these people are treating these things as investments, let them take the loss. That's the risk of doing that. Those who actually live there will value their home for what it is.

As for credit being a problem, you and I may not have heavy debts, but you should see how bad it is for some people, even carrying it back to when credit was easier. Being in P2P lending, I see it all the time. It's about high time they be held accountable for their avarice.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

No, the biggest problem is refusal to collect appropriate revenue from the 1%. That's where our debt comes from.

If you want to hit spending hit the military-surveillance complex, not middle class tax relief. The former is where the big savings is, with budgets 3 or 4 times larger than necessary, all for make work and corporate welfare.

To paraphrase the arguments against those who go after "a sliver of" Planned Parenthood, the entire DoD budget accounts for about 10-12% of the entire yearly budget for the country; hardly anything.

However, I will give both sides the point that every little bit helps. The biggest thing we need to do, when addressing spending, is to put EVERYTHING on the table. One interesting thing I've seen with the budgets is that whomever likes something declares that "mandatory spending", and what they don't like is declared "discretionary spending". Let's put absolutely everything on the table. The only things I see as "mandatory" are Constitutionally required payments and minimums for creditors. Everything else must be fair game.

[joecct]

If I was a rich man.....

If housing prices fall, does the appraised value also drop which causes a drop in property tax revenue, which causes.....?

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

If housing prices fall, does the appraised value also drop which causes a drop in property tax revenue, which causes.....?

True, but not a good reason to keep prices artificially high. That's like the private prison industry lobbying to keep pot criminalized because of all the revenue they'll lose if those people aren't imprisoned.

[unofan]

If I was a rich man.....

If housing prices fall, does the appraised value also drop which causes a drop in property tax revenue, which causes.....?

Rates to rise because local budgets still need to be paid.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

Rates to rise because local budgets still need to be paid.

Or they could always diminish the local budget. Too much to ask, maybe?

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

Or they could always diminish the local budget. Too much to ask, maybe?

That's up to the voters who ultimately approve what's in the budget through the election of representatives to town council, mayor, state leg, etc.

Local needs tend to be underfunded because it's so easy to demagogue property tax. In fact one thing that pushes federal spending higher is compensating for all the state and local funding that state and local pols shirk to protect their incumbency.

Ultimately it's all on the voters who let themselves be convinced by the "taxes are bad, m'kay" argument to forgo needed spending. Without a responsible and educated electorate, democracy does not function.