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Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

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  • Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

    Originally posted by unofan View Post
    But taking deductions to get to the lower rate means you're foregoing that income, too. You're spending dollars to save pennies.
    It's stunning to hear so many people who are willing to do that.

    There's a huge crowd of people refinancing, with the justification that it will lower taxes, without really realizing that they end up with LESS take home pay, since they have to pay the bank $1000 to save $300 in taxes (for some people). Some people are ok with more net out money to "save" taxes.

    It's a black box, people. Money out is money out. Does it really matter who gets it? It's Banks vs teachers, road construction workers, defense workers, agency people, etc.

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    • Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

      Originally posted by unofan View Post
      Its amazing how normally smart people don't understand marginal tax brackets as a concept.

      Otherwise smart people think that if you make $1 more than the threshold to go from the 25% to 30% bracket, your entire income gets taxed at the higher rate rather than just the last dollar.
      I'd say if you think that you are not, by definition, a smart person.
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      • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        I'd say if you think that you are not, by definition, a smart person.
        Meh, it's a gap in knowledge. I'm sure there are things in art and literature that I don't know that gives my wife pause.

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        • Got a question: I make roughly $14/hour plus shift premium. I am outraged by this plan, but I haven't been able to find much on how this affects me.
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          • Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

            Originally posted by unofan View Post
            But taking deductions to get to the lower rate means you're foregoing that income, too. You're spending dollars to save pennies.
            no. you are already spending that dollar. you already get deductions now (like mtge. everyone has (or should have) a mtge. rent payments are the sux). with this plan those are being taken away.

            fred foreman has state income tax he pays
            harriet houseowner has a mtge
            marry medical has a family and kids where she sometimes has large bills

            these again are not things that people go out of their way to spend.

            if 'reform' is looking to be neutral in places, they need to first do this so every tax payer is neutrally impacted. then (and only then) think about cutting rates.


            --at least that would be how mookie would do it.
            a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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            • Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

              Originally posted by alfablue View Post
              It's stunning to hear so many people who are willing to do that.

              There's a huge crowd of people refinancing, with the justification that it will lower taxes, without really realizing that they end up with LESS take home pay, since they have to pay the bank $1000 to save $300 in taxes (for some people). Some people are ok with more net out money to "save" taxes.

              It's a black box, people. Money out is money out. Does it really matter who gets it? It's Banks vs teachers, road construction workers, defense workers, agency people, etc.
              that is not a well thought out reason if true. would generally say that paying yourself rent via a mtge is something you will see back as you increase your equity and move out of your house at some point in the future. on top of that you get the tax savings with the interest. of course this is primarily though that first buy and not rerolling over and over and over your mtge.
              mookie can't remember but with the closing costs there is supposed to be a break even time frame where if you are doing the 'pay myself rent and build equity' if you are planning on only staying X amount of time you won't recover your closing costs and it will hurt you.
              a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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              • Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

                Originally posted by ShirtlessBob View Post
                Got a question: I make roughly $14/hour plus shift premium. I am outraged by this plan, but I haven't been able to find much on how this affects me.
                while the lowest rate is supposed to increase, your standard deduction is also planned to nearly double. either way you won't get the benefit you should. can't see how you should really be paying in anything other than socsec at that wage (another worthless mookie opinion )
                a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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                • Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

                  Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                  Exactly, and you can’t tell me making food is somehow less valuable than manufacturing whatever.

                  Also fast food tried automation like 2 decades ago and got rid of t because it was actually less efficient.
                  Heh. Don't look now, but my bro-in-law (Cornell CS major) works for a startup that builds literal burger-flipping robots that use computer vision, infrared cameras, AI, and the works to manage a fast-food grill. 20 years from now, you'll upload your order, your food will arrive perfectly cooked, your account will be deducted, and there will be no humans involved in the transaction (other than you).

                  At their target sales prices, payback can be measured in weeks.
                  Last edited by LynahFan; 11-12-2017, 11:02 PM.
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                  • Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
                    Heh. Don't look now, but my bro-in-law (Cornell CS major) works for a startup that builds literal burger-flipping robots that use computer vision, infrared cameras, AI, and the works to manage a fast-food grill. 20 years from now, you'll upload your order, your food will arrive perfectly cooked, your account will be deducted, and there will be no humans involved in the transaction (other than you).

                    At their target sales prices, payback can be measured in weeks.
                    Kyle Hayton will be devastated to hear this!
                    Last edited by joecct; 11-13-2017, 09:33 AM.
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                    • Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

                      wait until all cars are made as EV and not ICE. workers will be laid off en masse
                      a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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                      • Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
                        no. you are already spending that dollar. you already get deductions now (like mtge. everyone has (or should have) a mtge. rent payments are the sux). with this plan those are being taken away.

                        fred foreman has state income tax he pays
                        harriet houseowner has a mtge
                        marry medical has a family and kids where she sometimes has large bills

                        these again are not things that people go out of their way to spend.

                        if 'reform' is looking to be neutral in places, they need to first do this so every tax payer is neutrally impacted. then (and only then) think about cutting rates.


                        --at least that would be how mookie would do it.

                        We're arguing two different things. I'm saying, regardless of the current or proposed plan, there are people who wait until 12/31 and donate to a charity or put money into an IRA or whatever in order to "drop to a lower tax bracket," because they think all money is taxed at the highest marginal rate they pay.

                        It's not money they'd otherwise spend because they do it purely for tax reasons, even though it's stupid to do so.

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                        • Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

                          Originally posted by unofan View Post
                          We're arguing two different things. I'm saying, regardless of the current or proposed plan, there are people who wait until 12/31 and donate to a charity or put money into an IRA or whatever in order to "drop to a lower tax bracket," because they think all money is taxed at the highest marginal rate they pay.

                          It's not money they'd otherwise spend because they do it purely for tax reasons, even though it's stupid to do so.
                          yah, that doesn't make much sense.
                          a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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                          • Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

                            Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
                            that is not a well thought out reason if true. would generally say that paying yourself rent via a mtge is something you will see back as you increase your equity and move out of your house at some point in the future. on top of that you get the tax savings with the interest. of course this is primarily though that first buy and not rerolling over and over and over your mtge.
                            mookie can't remember but with the closing costs there is supposed to be a break even time frame where if you are doing the 'pay myself rent and build equity' if you are planning on only staying X amount of time you won't recover your closing costs and it will hurt you.
                            Do you not see people taking longer loans than they need to just for the tax savings? Happens all the time.

                            Even your claim that you can pay out money to lower your tax bracket is an example of that floating around in people's heads.

                            If you want to give money away for charity- do whatever you need to do. It should not be done because of taxes, it should be done, and the tax result is a bonus.

                            But on high dollar items like homes, it's just stupid to pretend that the $1000's you over pay for your mortgage saves you hundreds of dollars. Considering how often you see people roll over their loans into "more" home, that results in a constant battle paying huge interest payments and low principle- all with the thinking of the tax break. dumb

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                            • Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

                              Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                              Do you not see people taking longer loans than they need to just for the tax savings? Happens all the time.

                              Even your claim that you can pay out money to lower your tax bracket is an example of that floating around in people's heads.

                              If you want to give money away for charity- do whatever you need to do. It should not be done because of taxes, it should be done, and the tax result is a bonus.

                              But on high dollar items like homes, it's just stupid to pretend that the $1000's you over pay for your mortgage saves you hundreds of dollars. Considering how often you see people roll over their loans into "more" home, that results in a constant battle paying huge interest payments and low principle- all with the thinking of the tax break. dumb
                              not sure mookie typed that one can pay out money to lower their tax bracket......
                              a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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                              • Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

                                Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post

                                Plus if your deductions are lower you will have more income being taxed.
                                You did type this. And if lower deductions means more income being taxed, that also means higher deductions mean less income being taxed. Unless it's a trick post.

                                Perhaps mookie can be more descriptive of what the sentence is supposed to actually mean.

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