Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
    Let me ask this, and I really don't know the answer because I'm not familiar with criminal law. If I (or Trump) go to an investigator or the head of the FBI and say, "you know, there really is nothing to this whole Flynn thing, I think you should just let it go," is that technically obstruction of justice? Doesn't it take something more? Doesn't it take something like also connecting to that request the discussion with Comey about keeping his job, or his later termination? I know we have the Trump comments about why he fired Comey, so maybe they make that connection, but don't they actually need that connection?

    If someone in Trumps position simply argues that there is nothing that Flynn did that is illegal and the investigation should be dropped, or even makes that statement to Comey but does nothing more (no threats to Comey or no actual interference in the investigation), that can't alone be obstruction, is it?
    You mean something like firing the FBI Director who didn't "just let it go?"

    Comment


    • Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

      Originally posted by unofan View Post
      You mean something like firing the FBI Director who didn't just"let it go?"
      Good point. I had forgotten that piece. It's adding up to be quite the mess. Ideally we'll get a complete "Live Tweet" session from @realDonaldTrump tomorrow during testimony.
      **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

      Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
      Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

      Comment


      • Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

        Originally posted by unofan View Post
        You mean something like firing the FBI Director who didn't just"let it go?"
        Didn't I reference that?

        But that's my point. Your initial post that the "obstruction is asking Comey to stop looking at Flynn" isn't accurate unless there is that "or else", like a firing or a threat of firing or something else.
        That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

        Comment


        • Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

          Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
          Didn't I reference that?

          But that's my point. Your initial post that the "obstruction is asking Comey to stop looking at Flynn" isn't accurate unless there is that "or else", like a firing or a threat of firing or something else.
          Isn't firing enough? Or does there have to be reference to the quid pro quo first?
          **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

          Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
          Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

          Comment


          • Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

            Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
            Isn't firing enough? Or does there have to be reference to the quid pro quo first?
            Firing is the "or else" SJHovey referenced, Scooby. Does an obstruction of justice charge, in a situation like that, have to be predicated upon some punitive threat made towards the person conducting the investigation, or would simply making a request suffice?
            "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

            "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

            "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

            Comment


            • Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

              Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
              Firing is the "or else" SJHovey referenced, Scooby. Does an obstruction of justice charge, in a situation like that, have to be predicated upon some punitive threat made towards the person conducting the investigation, or would simply making a request suffice?
              Yeah, that's what I meant but you stated it much better.
              **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

              Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
              Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

              Comment


              • Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

                Someone needs to cite the obstruction statute under which the charge would be brought.

                edit: I see there are a number of offenses set forth in 18 U.S.C beginning with section 1503.

                This from section 1505:

                18 U.S. Code § 1505 - Obstruction of proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees

                Whoever, with intent to avoid, evade, prevent, or obstruct compliance, in whole or in part, with any civil investigative demand duly and properly made under the Antitrust Civil Process Act, willfully withholds, misrepresents, removes from any place, conceals, covers up, destroys, mutilates, alters, or by other means falsifies any documentary material, answers to written interrogatories, or oral testimony, which is the subject of such demand; or attempts to do so or solicits another to do so; or

                Whoever corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication influences, obstructs, or impedes or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede the due and proper administration of the law under which any pending proceeding is being had before any department or agency of the United States, or the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry under which any inquiry or investigation is being had by either House, or any committee of either House or any joint committee of the Congress—
                Last edited by burd; 06-07-2017, 04:06 PM.

                Comment


                • Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

                  Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                  Firing is the "or else" SJHovey referenced, Scooby. Does an obstruction of justice charge, in a situation like that, have to be predicated upon some punitive threat made towards the person conducting the investigation, or would simply making a request suffice?
                  Yes, but Trumpy can certainly argue that firing Covey was un-related to the Russian investigation. Now you and I might not buy that, but if you're gonna make that sort of thing stick to Trump, Mueller needs to dig up the hard evidence that proves that is why he was fired.
                  What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

                  Comment


                  • Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

                    Interesting: http://thehill.com/homenews/media/33...rview-with-pbs

                    Cornell '04, Stanford '06


                    KDR

                    Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
                    iwh30 I wish I could be as smart as you. I really do you are the man
                    gregg729 I just saw your sig, you do love having people revel in your "intelligence."
                    Ritt18 you are the perfect representation of your alma mater.
                    Miss Thundercat That's it, you win.
                    TBA#2 I want to kill you and dance in your blood.
                    DisplacedCornellian Hahaha. Thread over. Frenchy wins.

                    Test to see if I can add this.

                    Comment


                    • Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

                      Originally posted by French Rage View Post
                      At first I thought, "Big whoop."

                      Then I read that it was cancelled on extremely short notice. Someone's circling the wagons. Interesting indeed.
                      Code:
                      As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                      College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                      BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                      Originally posted by SanTropez
                      May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                      Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                      I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                      Originally posted by Kepler
                      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                      He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                      Comment


                      • Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

                        Originally posted by burd View Post
                        Whoever corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication
                        So this seems to be the money shot here.
                        That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                        Comment


                        • Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

                          Interesting thing about obstruction of justice charges is also there need not BE obstruction for one to be guilty, you only have to ATTEMPT to obstruct and can be found guilty of obstruction.

                          And of course right on cue are the mealy mouthed responses of the most patriotic of all Americans, the conservatives:
                          Originally posted by Matt Schlapp, Chairman of the American Conservative Union
                          This is one man's account of a conversation, it is a set of notes, it's exactly what we expect from James Comey. ... He is a grand-stander, he likes to be the honest man, he is going to play that role on Thursday,
                          He doesn't even bother denying the validity of what Comey has previewed, because he knows trump supporters don't even care if trump is a criminal. Of course most of trump's supporters are so stupid they don't have a second brain cell that possesses the ability to think critically. We're either gonna see this 5h!t until 2021 or the media is going to suffer extreme trump fatigue and give up before the 2018 midterms.

                          Comment


                          • Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

                            Originally posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
                            Interesting thing about obstruction of justice charges is also there need not BE obstruction for one to be guilty, you only have to ATTEMPT to obstruct and can be found guilty of obstruction.

                            And of course right on cue are the mealy mouthed responses of the most patriotic of all Americans, the conservatives:


                            He doesn't even bother denying the validity of what Comey has previewed, because he knows trump supporters don't even care if trump is a criminal. Of course most of trump's supporters are so stupid they don't have a second brain cell that possesses the ability to think critically. We're either gonna see this 5h!t until 2021 or the media is going to suffer extreme trump fatigue and give up before the 2018 midterms.
                            I remember hearing this asshat talk a few weeks ago and I had to change the channel. He offers nothing of substance. I couldn't find what I remember him talking about but it was maddening.
                            Code:
                            As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                            College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                            BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                            Originally posted by SanTropez
                            May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                            I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                            Originally posted by Kepler
                            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                            Comment


                            • Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

                              Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                              Let me ask this, and I really don't know the answer because I'm not familiar with criminal law. If I (or Trump) go to an investigator or the head of the FBI and say, "you know, there really is nothing to this whole Flynn thing, I think you should just let it go," is that technically obstruction of justice?
                              Depends upon the relationship of "I (or Trump)" in this theoretical to, "an investigator or the head of the FBI".

                              Comment


                              • Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

                                People smarter then I on the TV are saying obstruction. Seems to be clear.
                                **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                                Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                                Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X