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NHL 2016.2: An All-Canada Final (Playoffs and Off-season)

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  • Re: NHL 2016.2: An All-Canada Final (Playoffs and Off-season)

    When has ovie been a great performer in the playoffs?
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    • Re: NHL 2016.2: An All-Canada Final (Playoffs and Off-season)

      Originally posted by JF_Gophers View Post
      When has ovie been a great performer in the playoffs?
      My honest answer is always. Just being on the ice means additional resources devoted to shutting him down that free up other players.
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      • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        My honest answer is always. Just being on the ice means additional resources devoted to shutting him down that free up other players.
        So the answer is never, if all you have is a theoretical answer.
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        • Re: NHL 2016.2: An All-Canada Final (Playoffs and Off-season)

          Originally posted by JF_Gophers View Post
          So the answer is never, if all you have is a theoretical answer.
          That's not actually how a theory works.
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          • Re: NHL 2016.2: An All-Canada Final (Playoffs and Off-season)

            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            Easily in the sense of "if you're willing to eat some of his salary to be rid of him."

            I find criticism of Ovie from Caps fans as obnoxious and silly as criticism of Tavares from Isles fans criticism or Crosby by, well, everybody. They're great players and great performers.
            Agreed, it was just funny to see people actually think guys like Toews were better than Crosby (not as good a leader, not as clutch) because they simply had more depth surrounding them.

            As far as Ovie I thought he played pretty well and he missed a goal yesterday by the knob of a goalie stick (I've made many people angry making those types of saves haha). I don't think that's indicative of him not being clutch or what have you. They lost that series because of Holtby and Fleury.
            Last edited by trixR4kids; 05-11-2017, 12:28 PM.

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            • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              That's not actually how a theory works.
              Is it more of a guess? It's certainly lacking evidence to be fact.
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              • Re: NHL 2016.2: An All-Canada Final (Playoffs and Off-season)

                Originally posted by JF_Gophers View Post
                Is it more of a guess? It's certainly lacking evidence to be fact.
                A theory isn't a fact either, it's a hypothetical explanation for a fact pattern. You test a theory by examining whether the evidence supports the hypothesis. In this case the theory predicts that even when Ovie isn't on the scoresheet the guys around him perform better than when he's out of the lineup. I think that is empirically testable.

                But there's something even more fundamental going on in this series. No player "wins." Players perform in ways that contribute more or less to the probability of winning. The Caps outplayed the Penguins in all 7 games in this series. That is pretty much all they could do. In a 7-game series between two NHL playoff teams I suspect the expected value for wins for any member rarely exceeds 4.5 (or dips below 2.5). The Caps played well enough to win all 7 games. The idea of the Lone Hero who actually carries his team to a playoff series victory is BS in hockey with the possible exception of the goalie.
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                • Re: NHL 2016.2: An All-Canada Final (Playoffs and Off-season)

                  Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                  As far as Ovie I thought he played pretty well and he missed a goal yesterday by the knob of a goalie stick (I've made many people angry making those types of saves haha)
                  So you're a goalie? Good, I have a question. Why is everyone so quick to dismiss that save as a fluke? I get that Fleury didn't plan to deflect the puck with the knob of the stick, but for him to be able to move some portion of his ginormous self quickly enough to have any contact with the puck no matter how unplanned seems, to me, to mean he was partially responsible for the save. There was some skill involved that I, for example, would not be able to get that "lucky" result even if I had 1000 trials.
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                  • Re: NHL 2016.2: An All-Canada Final (Playoffs and Off-season)

                    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                    A theory isn't a fact either, it's a hypothetical explanation for a fact pattern. You test a theory by examining whether the evidence supports the hypothesis. In this case the theory predicts that even when Ovie isn't on the scoresheet the guys around him perform better than when he's out of the lineup. I think that is empirically testable.

                    But there's something even more fundamental going on in this series. No player "wins." Players perform in ways that contribute more or less to the probability of winning. The Caps outplayed the Penguins in all 7 games in this series. That is pretty much all they could do. In a 7-game series between two NHL playoff teams I suspect the expected value for wins for any member rarely exceeds 4.5 (or dips below 2.5). The Caps played well enough to win all 7 games. The idea of the Lone Hero who actually carries his team to a playoff series victory is BS in hockey with the possible exception of the goalie.
                    See Giguerre's MVP (most valuable [oversized] pads).

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                    • Re: NHL 2016.2: An All-Canada Final (Playoffs and Off-season)

                      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      So you're a goalie? Good, I have a question. Why is everyone so quick to dismiss that save as a fluke? I get that Fleury didn't plan to deflect the puck with the knob of the stick, but for him to be able to move some portion of his ginormous self quickly enough to have any contact with the puck no matter how unplanned seems, to me, to mean he was partially responsible for the save. There was some skill involved that I, for example, would not be able to get that "lucky" result even if I had 1000 trials.
                      Well, the question is whether saving it with the knob of your stick is a repeatable skill. I honestly don't know the answer to that, I've made a bunch of saves with it and even have done it a few times in a row (dude in HS practice kept shooting there and I kept saving it with my knob and he was half angry half amazed ). So yeah with Fleury the movement is definitely a skill, he's great at it when he doesn't do it so much that he throws himself completely out of position. The puck hitting the knob part... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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                      • Re: NHL 2016.2: An All-Canada Final (Playoffs and Off-season)

                        Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                        I've made a bunch of saves with it and even have done it a few times in a row (dude in HS practice kept shooting there and I kept saving it with my knob and he was half angry half amazed )
                        That guy sure could pick a spot, though.
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                        • Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                          IMHO, had he put his body into that play, the puck would have at least stayed out farther.

                          Granted, it was a great shot that scored, but Ovie could have done more to get the puck out of the zone. Kinda goes to show that anything can happen, so you need to make sure the puck goes out.
                          The difference between Ovechkin and Crosby is effort. Exactly why Ovy is Cupless.
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                          • Re: NHL 2016.2: An All-Canada Final (Playoffs and Off-season)

                            Benny Bishop signs a 6 year deal with the Stars, 29.5M. Stars, at this moment, have over 15M tied up in the crease.

                            @PierreVLeBrun: Ben Bishop contract details: $7 M, $6.5 M, $5.5 M, $3.5 M, $3.5 M, $3.5 M; and NMC throughout, modified NTC last 3 years

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                            • Originally posted by hockeyplayer1015 View Post
                              Benny Bishop signs a 6 year deal with the Stars, 29.5M. Stars, at this moment, have over 15M tied up in the crease.

                              @PierreVLeBrun: Ben Bishop contract details: $7 M, $6.5 M, $5.5 M, $3.5 M, $3.5 M, $3.5 M; and NMC throughout, modified NTC last 3 years
                              Niemi is likely going to be bought out. Also, because Anaheim made the Conference Finals Dallas gets a first round pick in the trade with Patrick Eaves.
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                              • Re: NHL 2016.2: An All-Canada Final (Playoffs and Off-season)

                                Hope it's the SoCal traffic, because that is one weak crowd in Anaheim. That or people really want to see the Tigers and Angels.
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