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Thread: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

  1. #61
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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Biddco View Post
    They did put a bid to host at Amsoil for either 2013 or 2014 but did not win. Having the top four seeds host regionals would be the best set up but obviously legistics are difficult for the arena (holding a weekend open, locker rooms, facilities, etc)

    I am starting to wonder if because of the lack of quality neutral sites and ticket sales that the coaches will be looking to change the format for regionals. We are starting to see a rotation for the same places and few changes out west as well.
    It won't happen. The votes aren't there.

    You have to look at it this way. Of the 60 teams, easily 30 of them have no shot whatsoever of hosting, certainly not if only the top four seeds host, and probably not even if we were to let the top 8 seeds host the first round. For those 30 teams, the one time a generation they make the tournament, the last thing they want to do is play a game on the road against a higher seed. They want a single elimination tournament in as neutral a site as possible.

    Another 10 programs have little or no shot at all of hosting. They want that same puncher's chance. That's 40 of 60 votes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riz View Post
    I'm from Denver and I'm not even mad. Saw this coming from a mile away.


    Let's not get ahead of ourselves and assume that North Dakota will actually be there next year...
    Being they have done it 15 years in a row now I like their odds.

  3. #63
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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    Let the West (and East for that matter) have it on on-campus rinks, with the caveat that if you aren't top 4 in the PWR, you can't play there.

    2003 #2 seed Maine as the higher seed against #3 Michigan at Yost was garbage.

    If you are a #1 seed, fine, host it in your own building. You earned it. But if you are a #2, 3 or 4, you've gotta travel. If you want to roll the dice and bid to host a regional, you better hope you put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise, you may have your athletic staff on campus organizing a regional while you are headed halfway across the country.

  4. #64
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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    Let the West (and East for that matter) have it on on-campus rinks, with the caveat that if you aren't top 4 in the PWR, you can't play there.

    2003 #2 seed Maine as the higher seed against #3 Michigan at Yost was garbage.

    If you are a #1 seed, fine, host it in your own building. You earned it. But if you are a #2, 3 or 4, you've gotta travel. If you want to roll the dice and bid to host a regional, you better hope you put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise, you may have your athletic staff on campus organizing a regional while you are headed halfway across the country.
    Your scenario sets up the possibility of regionals in places somewhat remote places like Grand Forks, St. Cloud, Mankato, Miami, etc. where UND, SCSU, MSUM, MU, etc. would not be playing there. That would be even more of an attendance disaster than we already have.
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  5. #65
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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    It won't happen. The votes aren't there.

    You have to look at it this way. Of the 60 teams, easily 30 of them have no shot whatsoever of hosting, certainly not if only the top four seeds host, and probably not even if we were to let the top 8 seeds host the first round. For those 30 teams, the one time a generation they make the tournament, the last thing they want to do is play a game on the road against a higher seed. They want a single elimination tournament in as neutral a site as possible.
    Great post; this concern is at the heart of the matter.

    But there is a way around this. The votes may still not be there. Still, a plan I posted on the 2016 thread does give everyone that puncher's chance to host:

    Selecting The Tournament Field
    - 16 Teams are chosen much as they are now. 6 Conference Champions & 10 At-Large Teams.
    - Win one of the 6 Auto-Bids, earn the right to host.
    - Top 2 remaining At-Large teams earn the right to host.
    - Switch from Pairwise to KRACH to rank the teams. Or not.
    - The 8 Host schools are ranked 1-8 based on your stat of choice.
    - The 8 Road schools are ranked 9-16 using the same stat.

    First Weekend of the Tournament: 8 Hosted Games
    - #1 hosts #16; #2 hosts #15, #3 hosts #14, and so on.
    - Committee is allowed to move a team up or down one place to avoid intra-conference match-ups.
    - Single elimination format at all stages of the tournament.
    - Host determines which rink is used.
    - Most Western teams would choose to host on Campus. But everyone is free to choose a venue that suits their needs.
    - Games are spread out from Friday evening through Sunday evening, according to arena availability.
    - Some TV coverage would probably be lost. But each of the 8 games could have their own timeslot over the course of the 3 day weekend.
    - 8 Winners advance to the 2nd Round Regionals.

    Second Weekend of the Tournament: 2 Four Team Regionals.
    - One East Regional; One West Regional. Neutral Sites Chosen in Advance. (Like Now)
    - One Doubleheader on Saturday; One Doubleheader on Sunday. Attend the regional in your home region; Watch the "other" regional on TV.
    - 4 Winners Advance to the Frozen Four.

    Third/Fourth Weekend of the Tournament: Frozen Four
    - Keep The Bye Week and Start The NCAA Tournament A Week Earlier; OR
    - Utilize the Bye Week for 2nd Round, and Keep the Existing Timeframe. I'm fine either way.

    Comments:
    - Makes the conference tourneys more meaningful, with a real prize to each winner.
    - 8 teams don't have to travel at all the first weekend. Should keep a lid on travel costs.
    - Limiting each regional to 4 teams addresses the dreaded locker room & practice time issues.
    - More sites will bid on the regionals since it's just a one day commitment.
    - Many fans can attend a regional without needing overnight lodging. Even those needing lodging might get by with only one night on the road. Helps neutral fans.
    - Positive energy from First Round wins should increase attendance from the schools participating in the regionals.
    - Four high stakes games, held over two days -- usually in hockey hotbeds -- should make the regionals an attractive TV event.


    Another 10 programs have little or no shot at all of hosting. They want that same puncher's chance. That's 40 of 60 votes.
    IMHO, EVERYONE has a puncher's chance of winning their own conference tournament. But what of a program that truly believes they'll never win their conference's tournament? Maybe such a school shouldn't be dictating the terms of post-season play...

  6. #66
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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by pgb-ohio View Post
    Great post; this concern is at the heart of the matter.

    But there is a way around this. The votes may still not be there. Still, a plan I posted on the 2016 thread does give everyone that puncher's chance to host:

    Selecting The Tournament Field
    - 16 Teams are chosen much as they are now. 6 Conference Champions & 10 At-Large Teams.
    - Win one of the 6 Auto-Bids, earn the right to host.
    - Top 2 remaining At-Large teams earn the right to host.
    - Switch from Pairwise to KRACH to rank the teams. Or not.
    - The 8 Host schools are ranked 1-8 based on your stat of choice.
    - The 8 Road schools are ranked 9-16 using the same stat.

    First Weekend of the Tournament: 8 Hosted Games
    - #1 hosts #16; #2 hosts #15, #3 hosts #14, and so on.
    - Committee is allowed to move a team up or down one place to avoid intra-conference match-ups.
    - Single elimination format at all stages of the tournament.
    - Host determines which rink is used.
    - Most Western teams would choose to host on Campus. But everyone is free to choose a venue that suits their needs.
    - Games are spread out from Friday evening through Sunday evening, according to arena availability.
    - Some TV coverage would probably be lost. But each of the 8 games could have their own timeslot over the course of the 3 day weekend.
    - 8 Winners advance to the 2nd Round Regionals.
    I would enjoy seeing a BC/Harvard regional game hosted at UA_

  7. #67
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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    They won't use the bye week since it coincides with the men's and women's bball Final Four and they don't want that overlap. If you push it back a week that pushes the beginning of the season back into September. Not all teams would be OK with that. On campus hosting of both the rounds of 16 and 8 would be fine. Also, completely disagree with making the conference tournament a determinant for hosting a game. An Atlantic Hockey team or WCHA team who wins their tournament and finishes 25th in PWR as the 16th place team has no business hosting a game.
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  8. #68

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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    Make the NCAA 6 teams -- conference champions only. Want to see the conference championships become relevant again? This will do it. There will be some wars -- and full houses.

    As to the NCAA.
    Week 1. 6 at 3 and 5 at 4.
    Week 2 (Frozen Four) 2 v 3/6 and 1 v 4/5.
    (the 1978 tournament used this format)

    Seed using PWR or some other acceptable rating system.

  9. #69
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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    If Milwaukee can't get the Frozen Four, hosting a regional there at the smaller arena across the street seems like a decent idea.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UW–M..._Panther_Arena

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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by brassbonanza View Post
    They won't use the bye week since it coincides with the men's and women's bball Final Four and they don't want that overlap.
    OK; I'm fine with that.

    If you push it back a week that pushes the beginning of the season back into September. Not all teams would be OK with that.
    It could move the season a week earlier, but not necessarily. Fewer Byes; Use a December Weekend; Play 2 Fewer games... and I'm sure there are other options.

    On campus hosting of both the rounds of 16 and 8 would be fine.
    Personally I think so too, but you've just made it much tougher to get to 31 votes.

    Also, completely disagree with making the conference tournament a determinant for hosting a game. An Atlantic Hockey team or WCHA team who wins their tournament and finishes 25th in PWR as the 16th place team has no business hosting a game.
    Except that the status quo is a complete disaster in the West. While there are legitimate objections to letting #25 host, that would be much better than what we've currently got -- some of the most important games of the season being played in mausoleums.

    Think it through. Suppose you're #3 among the 10 At-Large Teams. That lands you at #9 in my format. So you're sent on the road for the first round. At the same time, your opponent is #25 in the Pairwise. Isn't that actually a fairly decent draw?

    Even more importantly, take on the actual challenge of this topic. Change is desperately needed. But to get there, you need votes from the AH & WCHA schools. What carrot would you offer them to attract their votes?

    It's relatively easy to find fault, but much tougher to come up a plan to move the puck forward. Mind you, I'm not in the least bit offended by your critique. Just challenging you to take your thinking to the next level.

  11. #71
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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by TalonsUpPuckDown View Post
    I would enjoy seeing a BC/Harvard regional game hosted at UA_
    Well, by the time the game was over, you could count the players & coaches on both teams as close personal friends.

    Of course there would have to some rational limits placed on where schools to elect to stage their games. A rink with no seating wouldn't be permissible. Nor would a building 4 time zones away from both campuses!

    That element of my plan was added in response to the concern that some small schools might play in venues that would be too small for a once-in-a-decade home playoff game. Completely off the top of my head, maybe you'd impose a 100 mile limit on off-campus sites, along with a minimum of 4,000 seats.

    But whatever the final rules, I've got to believe that the vast majority of schools would choose to host on-campus -- from both East and West.

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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Riz View Post
    I'm from Denver and I'm not even mad. Saw this coming from a mile away.


    Let's not get ahead of ourselves and assume that North Dakota will actually be there next year...
    North Dakota not being there could make things interesting for attendance. They will still sell plenty of tickets, but there is a big difference in driving 75 miles with an easy 75 miles back home versus an overnight stay. And if North Dakota makes the regional but loses the first night, what would attendance look like the next night? Would UND fans from Fargo (still over 200 miles from Sioux Falls) stay?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siouxfaninseattle View Post
    North Dakota not being there could make things interesting for attendance. They will still sell plenty of tickets, but there is a big difference in driving 75 miles with an easy 75 miles back home versus an overnight stay. And if North Dakota makes the regional but loses the first night, what would attendance look like the next night? Would UND fans from Fargo (still over 200 miles from Sioux Falls) stay?
    No

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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    What hurts the Midwest is that everything is a distant drive. An example for the drive from Minneapolis to Fargo is 3 hours and 42 minutes. The drive from Bridgeport CT to Worcester ma is 1 hour 54 minutes. A thing that hurts the Midwest is that there are very little large cities. Allentown, PA, Bridgeport, CT, and Worchester, MA. All three of these cities are in the top 70 metros in the United States. Midwest metros that are around that same size are Omaha, NE, Grand Rapids, MI, Dayton, OH, Akron, OH, Madison, WI, and Des Moines, IA. Omaha has one team nearby in a couple of hours. there are only Ohio teams that play hockey and none of them have made it the tournament lately. I believe Madison only has their home rink available so Madison can't be used. Only Omaha Nebraska is near Des Moines. Since the Northwest has larger cities it is easier for them to have arena that not owned by the college available to use

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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus of Suburbia View Post
    there are only Ohio teams that play hockey and none of them have made it the tournament lately.
    That's strange since I remember seeing a score that read Duluth 3, Ohio State 2 in OT. Last time I looked Ohio State was in Ohio.

  16. #76
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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus of Suburbia View Post
    ...there are only Ohio teams that play hockey and none of them have made it the tournament lately...
    Quote Originally Posted by Draighlicht View Post
    That's strange since I remember seeing a score that read Duluth 3, Ohio State 2 in OT. Last time I looked Ohio State was in Ohio.
    And who can forget the epic finish to the 2009 championship game when Boston University came back from the dead to beat Miami (of Ohio) in OT; and for that matter, the 2015 regionals where Providence beat the same Miami 7-5. (Sorry to bring back the bad memories Redhawk fans but blame Jesus of Suburbia.)
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  17. #77
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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by chickod View Post
    How many Harvard fans went to Chicago for that matter?
    All of Harvard's fans went to Chicago.
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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by chickod View Post
    How many Harvard fans went to Chicago for that matter?
    There were some, but Harvard was most certainly the least represented school out there, it wasn't embarrassingly low though. In the ballpark of 750-1,000 I'd say.
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  19. #79
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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    The lack of bids out west caused the regionals to end up where they did.

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  20. #80
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    Re: NCAA Hockey Administrators to western fans: Drop Dead

    Eh, just play the tournament every year in Omaha, similar to the College World Series in baseball. Centrally located, except for the Alaska Schools No more Eastern bias, everyone will know where they're headed every year.
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