Movies: New Ideas Welcome II Prequel Reboot

[Brenthoven]

Have you ever seen Shakespeare using the original text? The man knew how to write. He could put down the most subversive dialogue or scenes, and people would applaud him even though it could mean losing their freedom or their lives. That in and of itself isn't inherently worthy of praise, but he did it without making it seemed forced. MacBeth, the whole opening scene was a stick in the eye of newly passed British law forbidding witchcraft. Knowing it to be ridiculous, he put a scene of witches front and center and made them an integral part of the play. Without them, the entire story of MacBeth doesn't exist.

Although it was a very long time ago, I read his actual plays with all the old language and such. I'm sure I missed some things, due to the differences compared to modern language, but he was brilliant.

[dxmnkd316]

Have you ever seen Shakespeare using the original text? The man knew how to write. He could put down the most subversive dialogue or scenes, and people would applaud him even though it could mean losing their freedom or their lives. That in and of itself isn't inherently worthy of praise, but he did it without making it seemed forced. MacBeth, the whole opening scene was a stick in the eye of newly passed British law forbidding witchcraft. Knowing it to be ridiculous, he put a scene of witches front and center and made them an integral part of the play. Without them, the entire story of MacBeth doesn't exist.

Yes, I have, well most of them. Thanks for the long-winded and unnecessary history lesson. I'm fully aware. But it didn't address what I said.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Ten things I hate about you was a good movie.

[Brenthoven]

I don't see how being from Shakespeare's pen makes it an infallible movie.

It means that a director or writer REALLLLLLLLLY has to suck to screw up an adaptation of a Shakespearean play. Almost has to be intentional about it.

[dxmnkd316]

I ended up watching it last night. Then today I get home from lunch and I hear "Cruel to be Kind" by Letters to Cleo. My roommate was watching it and I just busted out laughing.

[dxmnkd316]

It means that a director or writer REALLLLLLLLLY has to suck to screw up an adaptation of a Shakespearean play. Almost has to be intentional about it.

Balderdash. There are plenty of great books and stories that are turned into absolute mush by Michael Bay wannabes.

It still takes a good film crew to make a good film. Regardless of whether the original writers handed down acts written by god himself.

[Brenthoven]

Balderdash. There are plenty of great books and stories that are turned into absolute mush by Michael Bay wannabes.

It still takes a good film crew to make a good film. Regardless of whether the original writers handed down acts written by god himself.

And we're saying that it takes Michael Bay on steroids to ruin Shakespeare. Ol' Willy was that good.

[dxmnkd316]

I disagree.

[Brenthoven]

I disagree.

Obviously.

[Handyman]

What else falls into that category? Tommy Boy? American Pie? 40-year Old Virgin? Anchorman? Super Troopers? Clerks? Harold & Kumar GTWC? Top Secret? Better Off Dead?

Half of those have zero to do with being a teenager/young adult so no

[Handyman]

And we're saying that it takes Michael Bay on steroids to ruin Shakespeare. Ol' Willy was that good.

I am sure you can find plenty of renditions of Shakespeare that people would think are horrible. (like say the Mel Gibson Hamlet or Laurence Fishbourne in Othello) Shakespeare is no more immune than any other writer to having stories made of his plays that are terrible.

[Brenthoven]

I am sure you can find plenty of renditions of Shakespeare that people would think are horrible. (like say the Mel Gibson Hamlet or Laurence Fishbourne in Othello) Shakespeare is no more immune than any other writer to having stories made of his plays that are terrible.

Again, we're not saying he's infallible. We're just saying that you really have to work at it.

[Handyman]

And I am saying you are full of it It is just as easy for Shakespeare based movies to suck as it is anyone else.

[Kepler]

It is just as easy for Shakespeare based movies to suck as it is anyone else.

"Just as easy" is overstating it. You can ruin Shakespeare, but it takes severe negligence or actual intent. If you take the average Hollywood director, the average cast, and the average screenplay writer, you're going to turn out a good product with more than half of Shakespeare's plays. (If you try a double diamond like Cymbeline or Pericles you are guaranteed to fail, but that's because the source material is all over the place.)

A good high school drama club can produce a compelling Julius Caesar or Romeo and Juliet. The material is simply that good.

[Kepler]

Yes, I have, well most of them.

I recommend the BBC box set. It has all of the agreed-upon canon and it's a great way to capture, say, Titus Andronicus, or Troilus and Cressida, or Two Gentlemen of Verona. It is genuinely fun to have seen every Shakespeare play. Also, the productions are wonderful.

It is also amazing that while some of the plays have weaknesses and some were obviously handed off to secondary writers for at least one of the acts, not a single play credited to Him sucks. ( Merry Wives is the closest, but it compares favorably with most farce written at the same time, and it famously is pure fan service and a cash dive.)

2 caveats on the box set:

(1) make sure you get the correct region unless you have a DVD player that doesn't care (I actually bought a DVD player just to play my region 2 set).
(2) pay attention to the prices! I bought mine on Amazon for about $125, but I have seen them go for as high as $1000. Pay attention. :-)

[Handyman]

I am watching LA Story for the first time in years...still love it!

[Brenthoven]

I recommend the BBC box set. It has all of the agreed-upon canon and it's a great way to capture, say, Titus Andronicus, or Troilus and Cressida, or Two Gentlemen of Verona. It is genuinely fun to have seen every Shakespeare play. Also, the productions are wonderful.

It is also amazing that while some of the plays have weaknesses and some were obviously handed off to secondary writers for at least one of the acts, not a single play credited to Him sucks. ( Merry Wives is the closest, but it compares favorably with most farce written at the same time, and it famously is pure fan service and a cash dive.)

2 caveats on the box set:

(1) make sure you get the correct region unless you have a DVD player that doesn't care (I actually bought a DVD player just to play my region 2 set).
(2) pay attention to the prices! I bought mine on Amazon for about $125, but I have seen them go for as high as $1000. Pay attention. :-)

It's tough to argue with anything BBC does.

I agree, WATCH THOSE PRICES. I have bought stuff on Amazon (the Summit Series, Akira Kurosawa box set) and stuff like that, the price varies quite often, and by quite a bit.

[Kepler]

It's tough to argue with anything BBC does.

The other thing I'd recommend is read this book from cover to cover. Bloom has his hobby horses (he's on Falstaff's tip far too often) but it's a warm and deep survey of the work, written before the rot began to set in on English criticism. People who went to a tier 1 college after 1975 or any college after 1990 will probably never have had the benefit of a non-idiotic lit course. For them, this is like fresh air blowing away all the snot-nosed Derridean Academy cob webs.

[Brenthoven]

The other thing I'd recommend is read this book from cover to cover. Bloom has his hobby horses (he's on Falstaff's tip far too often) but it's a warm and deep survey of the work, written before the rot began to set in on English criticism. People who went to a tier 1 college after 1975 or any college after 1990 will probably never have had the benefit of a non-idiotic lit course. For them, this is like fresh air blowing away all the snot-nosed Derridean Academy cob webs.

I'm not THAT into Shakespeare!

Just echoing that BBC doesn't mess around when it comes to serious stuff. They have a reputation that they would prefer to keep.

[Kepler]

I'm not THAT into Shakespeare!

Try that book and I'll bet you'll be. Harold leaves it all on the field. That book is very smart, but more importantly it captures the balls and the fury in the Bard. It is not for the faint of heart; he isn't f-cking around and he give exactly zero f-cks who he makes uncomfortable.