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Thread: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

  1. #121
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    That's a pretty good line. I think if you tweet it, right now, you have a chance to be the 167th person to have done so.
    Criticize away... But I can't thank you enough for posting that Penn State should get a women's hockey team...

  2. #122
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    It is a little shocking that they didn't draw better, considering the popularity of the men's team. If they drew 2500 instead of 800 would that have been enough to save the program? I'm guessing not. What did a women's ticket cost?
    Women's hockey is over everywhere if revenue has to cover expenses. UND had $25,306 in ticket sales against $2.1M in expenses.

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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastFan1 View Post
    Women's hockey is over everywhere if revenue has to cover expenses. UND had $25,306 in ticket sales against $2.1M in expenses.
    http://www.sayanythingblog.com/entry...-million-2016/
    If you apply this to many sports and even DIV 1 football at many places it won't cut it.

  4. #124
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Looking just at gate vs expenses is not the right way of calculating the value of a team. Athletics are in a large way a loss leader. Athletics are an enhancement to the community making it more attractive to both the student and local communities and especially at big nationwide programs in football and basketball a major part of the branding that enhances how recognizable the institution is nationwide.

    Athletics, both men's and women's teams, are an added value to the prestige of an institution and I theorize that cutting a nationally recognized team that incubates Olympic athletes combined with the mascot/nickname issue is such a huge black eye this is a net loss to North Dakota's brand beyond the monetary savings. But when there is a mandate from a government entity to do something quickly, mistakes get made in haste to keep in the politician's good graces. Look at the mess Penn State has been in as a program with the Sandusky sanctions (to say nothing of the horrors that earned those sanctions). There was a lot of pressure from above to accept hefty sanctions that ended up getting walked back after backlash from the community.
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  5. #125
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    So they may have brought in another $200,000 with tickets and concessions if they drew 2500....
    If they draw 2500 fans a game, would that even cover the operating costs of opening the Ralph? I wonder what the set up costs are for staffing a game at the Ralph is. I wonder if it would have made more sense for them to play at a local rink.

  6. #126
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by bucky15 View Post
    If they draw 2500 fans a game, would that even cover the operating costs of opening the Ralph? I wonder what the set up costs are for staffing a game at the Ralph is. I wonder if it would have made more sense for them to play at a local rink.
    That's absolutely ridiculous. The ice is in, it's ready to go. Not much different than any other rink.

  7. #127
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    It would be interesting to see the same table generated for Revenue and Expenses for the Mens Program at UND. How much is a ticket to a men's game cost?
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  8. #128
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by giwan View Post
    even DIV 1 football at many places it won't cut it.
    Then why are they D1? Go back to D2 or cut it altogether.

    Some schools like Minnesota (and rest of Big Ten) are going to make so much money (50-100m gross) that I don't see how they will avoid paying their players.


    My original thought is that Grand Forks likes to be thought of as this hockey town, but really not so much after this.

    It's a unique situation isn't it? Doesn't men's hockey carry the department? Does football or bouncy ball make any money? So they can build a $100,000,000 arena but can't keep the successful women's team going. Crazy.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Tuuk View Post
    Then why are they D1? Go back to D2 or cut it altogether.

    Some schools like Minnesota (and rest of Big Ten) are going to make so much money (50-100m gross) that I don't see how they will avoid paying their players.


    My original thought is that Grand Forks likes to be thought of as this hockey town, but really not so much after this.

    It's a unique situation isn't it? Doesn't men's hockey carry the department? Does football or bouncy ball make any money? So they can build a $100,000,000 arena but can't keep the successful women's team going. Crazy.
    Because D1 football brings prestige to the university and alumni donations. And it wouldn't be back to D2 for most of them, it would be from FBS (1A) to FCS (1AA). However, the arms race on salaries and video scoreboards and "amenities" for the Power 5 conferences is way out of hand. When the media rights bubble bursts, those programs will be in a world of hurt.
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by FiveHoleFrenzy View Post
    It is also interesting to consider this...Could it have been helpful to the women's program if UND supporters had put as much time, effort, and money into the women's program as they did the nickname issue?
    When I first mentioned this awful occurrence to my significant other yesterday she wondered if there was money the school was no longer getting from the Englestad family because of the name change. I told her I have no idea, but I couldn't imagine that it would have made any difference in what the school had just done. Don't think Ralph can be blamed for this in his grave. Or can he?

  11. #131
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    first off, UND does not own the arena, they are tennents of the Engelstad Foundation which owns the building and land it sits on, rent is $1 a year last I heard, UND also plays basketball & volleyball in the Betty, named after his wife, also not owned by UND
    and second, yes, the name change could of had an effect, who knows, he may have left them even more money when he kicked the bucket

    so trivia question, which school is the farthest west in women's hockey now that UND is out?
    no fair looking at a map

    and second, which school will benefit the most?
    St. cloud, Mankato, Bemidji? somebody else?
    Last edited by pokechecker; 03-30-2017 at 08:05 PM.
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Since Mankato is the least likely in my mind, I'll guess them. Bemidji is just way too obvious. Bemidji benefits the most in recruitment, especially for those who like Musky fishing. For the recruits that like Bullheads, Mankato might be their choice. Lake Jefferson is very good. Caught a nice catfish there once.
    Last edited by bluffrinkrat; 03-30-2017 at 09:12 PM. Reason: Fishing options

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by pokechecker View Post
    and second, which school will benefit the most?
    St. cloud, Mankato, Bemidji? somebody else?
    I say everyone loses, including would be players who now have 18 fewer scholarship opportunities available.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastFan1 View Post
    I would love to see this budget! Equipment, sticks, equipment manager, facility personnel, strength coach, academic advisors, athletic department coordinator, employee benefits, ice time, food, hotel and travel budget for away games, recruiting expenses.

    Give it a shot.
    Does the team really need all that? Each kid gets two sticks, green pants and a green helmet, new uniforms every four years, scratch the strength coach and the academic advisors, pay out of pocket for your own swag, no travel for non conference games and one full time coach on the cheap. If I were running the department, they still have a team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wpiguy View Post
    Does the team really need all that? Each kid gets two sticks, green pants and a green helmet, new uniforms every four years, scratch the strength coach and the academic advisors, pay out of pocket for your own swag, no travel for non conference games and one full time coach on the cheap. If I were running the department, they still have a team.
    LOL, you're a joke. D3 teams are run better than that, maybe not all but probably the majority. You know nothing and couldn't run a department let alone a hockey team if your life depended on it.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Because D1 football brings prestige to the university and alumni donations. And it wouldn't be back to D2 for most of them, it would be from FBS (1A) to FCS (1AA). However, the arms race on salaries and video scoreboards and "amenities" for the Power 5 conferences is way out of hand. When the media rights bubble bursts, those programs will be in a world of hurt.

    You want to run your schools athletic program on prestige alone, the BIG10 will do it with prestige and 2.64 billion dollars from ESPN and FOX.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by wpiguy View Post
    Does the team really need all that? Each kid gets two sticks, green pants and a green helmet, new uniforms every four years, scratch the strength coach and the academic advisors, pay out of pocket for your own swag, no travel for non conference games and one full time coach on the cheap. If I were running the department, they still have a team.
    according to The Wisconsin State Journal, WI had the highest operating expenses $640,000, followed by Penn state $590,000, Ohio State $565,000, and UND $545,000 in 2015/16

    UND averaged 800 fans in an 11,600 seat arena, IOW less than 7% full
    they'd have to have over 4,000 fans paying the $7 ticket at each game to cover the operating expenses
    the men's team brings in about $350,000 each game y my estimate, give or take $50,000

    even at WI the women's game brings in chump change and doesn't even begin to cover the cost
    but my guess is that Badger football, basketball, and hockey brings in a lot more than UND's big three revenue sports, a lot more
    Last edited by pokechecker; 03-31-2017 at 01:45 AM.
    Really folks, we should forgive Al Franken, that is one hot babe, how could he resist grabbin' her? .... maybe if he'd have remembered he's married?

  18. #138
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by wpiguy View Post
    Does the team really need all that? Each kid gets two sticks, green pants and a green helmet, new uniforms every four years, scratch the strength coach and the academic advisors, pay out of pocket for your own swag, no travel for non conference games and one full time coach on the cheap. If I were running the department, they still have a team.
    If you went this route, you might have a team, but you wouldn't have any games. No conference is going to want to have this team as a member, so all of your games will have to be non-conference. And, since you refuse to travel, you aren't going to find any non-conference teams that want to play you, either.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by pokechecker View Post
    according to The Wisconsin State Journal, WI had the highest operating expenses $640,000, followed by Penn state $590,000, Ohio State $565,000, and UND $545,000 in 2015/16

    UND averaged 800 fans in an 11,600 seat arena, IOW less than 7% full
    they'd have to have over 4,000 fans paying the $7 ticket at each game to cover the operating expenses
    the men's team brings in about $350,000 each game y my estimate, give or take $50,000

    even at WI the women's game brings in chump change and doesn't even begin to cover the cost
    but my guess is that Badger football, basketball, and hockey brings in a lot more than UND's big three revenue sports, a lot more
    So what is sport??

    It's a chance for kids/people to compete at darts/lawn bowling/things with balls, black discs and pointed objects.

    Really, most of us want to watch something and compare our talent to their talent. Pretty simple. As parents we pay the shot, the community pays the shot, the government pays the shot. If we want it, pay for it. USNWT is an example.

    I'm a Canadian, and I want a strong US team, heck I want a strong team in every country that can figure out how to put the disc in the net!!

    Name the money makers in NCAA (many football/basketball teams and a few hockey teams). There are scholarships for golf, fencing, crew, .... even band and cheerleading. None of these make $$'s.

    It's an environment for the students. Take it all away, and what we have is school.

    Happy to pay more in taxes for these players and other athletes than government folks taking trips to where ever.

    The US has been and brain drain of people from around the world for a generation or 2, has been an athlete drain for the same amount of time. Once your great nation is not a destination of excellence, progress will cease.

    Take a look, China is entertaining the NBA and NHL. Europe has great options for the hockey elite who are being put out to pasture based on costs and Caps.

    Thursday was a great day for the USNWT, and a really bad day for NCAA women's hockey! Maybe a sign of the times to come. Time to buy Walmart shares.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Tuuk View Post
    I've been there for a women's game. Take your ticket to the usher and ask where your seat is and they'll say, "Anywhere you'd like."
    Then why the heck are they even paying ushers to be there...?!

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