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Thread: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

  1. #101
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Interesting read...

    http://www.sayanythingblog.com/entry...-million-2016/

    It is also interesting to consider this...Could it have been helpful to the women's program if UND supporters had put as much time, effort, and money into the women's program as they did the nickname issue?
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  2. #102
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by GTOWN View Post
    I wonder if the school chose to cut hockey because it is so high profile that they expected a backlash. They can then turn around and say: find sponsors that will support the program and we'll bring it back......
    My guess is this, and it's simply a guess. That based upon the cost per athlete, women's hockey was considerably higher than something like women's swimming or track. It might cost the University $1.5 million to run the women's hockey program, and maybe the same amount for women's track, but 100 kids participate in track/cross country but only 25 in women's hockey. The University gets more bang (i.e., more women's scholarships or spots) for the same amount of money. Just my hunch.

    Here's the other thing that people don't remember. 15 years ago when the program was started, there was a fair amount of controversy within the University system, hockey community and Grand Forks itself about starting that program. A lot of people, including hockey people, warned that this was going to be a very expensive proposition and a black hole of money for the University. The argument was made that the money could be better spent giving more women better opportunities to participate in women's sports at the school than trying to start and operate a hockey program.

    Does Michigan have a women's hockey program? Does Michigan St. or Penn St.? Where is the outrage directed at these schools? These are huge institutions making millions from their football and basketball programs. At least North Dakota gave it a shot.

    I'm not happy UND cut hockey, because I'm a hockey fan. But if nothing else I'll give the University credit for making a hard choice, rather than trying to limp along, providing minimal support and harming the rest of the athletic department or University.
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by FiveHoleFrenzy View Post

    It is also interesting to consider this...Could it have been helpful to the women's program if UND supporters had put as much time, effort, and money into the women's program as they did the nickname issue?
    That's a pretty good line. I think if you tweet it, right now, you have a chance to be the 167th person to have done so.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

  4. #104
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by EastFan1 View Post
    I would love to see this budget! Equipment, sticks, equipment manager, facility personnel, strength coach, academic advisors, athletic department coordinator, employee benefits, ice time, food, hotel and travel budget for away games, recruiting expenses.

    Give it a shot.
    Another thing to consider... At Minnesota (maybe other schools) the cost of the scholarship has to be funded by the athletic department as well. Don't know UND costs for a year, but I imagine room and board to be $20K yr.? If so, you need $360K just to fund the schooling. I doubt you could fund a basketball team for $250K a year - unless they all drive their own scooters to away games...

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Does Michigan have a women's hockey program? Does Michigan St. or Penn St.? Where is the outrage directed at these schools? These are huge institutions making millions from their football and basketball programs. At least North Dakota gave it a shot.
    Penn State has a women's program.
    If you ever visited the women's forum you would see there is outrage directed at Michigan for being a "hockey state" and having no women's D1 programs.
    Thanks for visiting the women's forum now, see you back again soon after this blows over, I'm sure.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Does Michigan have a women's hockey program? Does Michigan St. or Penn St.? Where is the outrage directed at these schools? These are huge institutions making millions from their football and basketball programs. At least North Dakota gave it a shot.
    Uh, yes, Penn State has a women's hockey program.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Does Michigan have a women's hockey program? Does Michigan St. or Penn St.? Where is the outrage directed at these schools? These are huge institutions making millions from their football and basketball programs. At least North Dakota gave it a shot.
    Did you really ask if Penn State has a women's hockey program? Wow, you're only five years behind.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by KTDC View Post
    Penn State has a women's program.
    If you ever visited the women's forum you would see there is outrage directed at Michigan for being a "hockey state" and having no women's D1 programs.
    Thanks for visiting the women's forum now, see you back again soon after this blows over, I'm sure.
    I don't post regularly in the women's forum. I've visited only occasionally to read some of the rankings threads, but I certainly don't visit as often as on the men's side.

    And I made a mistake regarding Penn St.

    Sorry.

    But it doesn't change my point, which is institutions have hard choices to make about what they can and cannot afford in their athletic department. It's the reason that more than half the B1G teams don't even have a men's team, let alone a women's team.

    Sorry I invaded your private domain.

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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveHoleFrenzy View Post
    Interesting read...
    http://www.sayanythingblog.com/entry...-million-2016/
    It is also interesting to consider this...Could it have been helpful to the women's program if UND supporters had put as much time, effort, and money into the women's program as they did the nickname issue?
    So why not cut all student subsidy? Do ANY of the women's sport show a profit, break even? Besides hockey what about the men's? Lots of ways to look at numbers, and justify choices.

    They must really feel they have their Title IX ducks in a row. Most universities do not.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    A couple of things. One, this was poorly handled by UND. IMO, one of several things they haven't handled well in the past few years. Two, there were 209 fans at the Ralph for the women's last game - a WCHA playoff game. Let that number sink in. Should you continue funding a sport that draws huge amounts of money ($1.9M in 2016) and has very little interest from fans and students?
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGopher View Post
    Don't know UND costs for a year, but I imagine room and board to be $20K yr.? If so, you need $360K just to fund the schooling.
    20k? That's not what it actually costs them though.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by Siouxfaninseattle View Post
    A couple of things. One, this was poorly handled by UND. IMO, one of several things they haven't handled well in the past few years. Two, there were 209 fans at the Ralph for the women's last game - a WCHA playoff game. Let that number sink in. Should you continue funding a sport that draws huge amounts of money ($1.9M in 2016) and has very little interest from fans and students?

    During the regular season, UND women regularly drew crowds of 700, 800, 1000.

    And their men's team led the nation in attendance. Like it or not, profitable men's teams provide the funding for unprofitable teams -mens and women's - at LOTS of schools. Hockey at UND pays for itself, overall.

    (And BTW: the UND web site shows 951 for the final regular season game, and 344 for the final WCHA playoff game.)
    Last edited by robertearle; 03-30-2017 at 12:31 PM.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    15 years ago when the program was started, there was a fair amount of controversy within the University system, hockey community and Grand Forks itself about starting that program. A lot of people, including hockey people, warned that this was going to be a very expensive proposition and a black hole of money for the University.
    What about UND women's basketball? Surely a very expensive black hole as well with very few team members.


    I also don't think the hockey program was very well supported. I've been there for a women's game. Take your ticket to the usher and ask where your seat is and they'll say, "Anywhere you'd like."

    If Grand Forks is such a hockey community they should be able to at least pay for all scholarships with ticket sales. So much for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Tuuk View Post
    What about UND women's basketball? Surely a very expensive black hole as well with very few team members.


    I also don't think the hockey program was very well supported. I've been there for a women's game. Take your ticket to the usher and ask where your seat is and they'll say, "Anywhere you'd like."

    If Grand Forks is such a hockey community they should be able to at least pay for all scholarships with ticket sales. So much for that.
    Women's hockey doesn't attract many fans at any school. I've been to several women's games in Grand Forks. I enjoy the women's game but nothing compared to the men's game. This whole thing was handled poorly. I feel bad for the student athletes who this affects. But life goes on and I'm sure they will play elsewhere.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    It is a little shocking that they didn't draw better, considering the popularity of the men's team. If they drew 2500 instead of 800 would that have been enough to save the program? I'm guessing not. What did a women's ticket cost?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    It is a little shocking that they didn't draw better, considering the popularity of the men's team. If they drew 2500 instead of 800 would that have been enough to save the program? I'm guessing not. What did a women's ticket cost?
    Anywhere from a buck to I'm going to say 7 bucks.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    It is a little shocking that they didn't draw better, considering the popularity of the men's team. If they drew 2500 instead of 800 would that have been enough to save the program? I'm guessing not. What did a women's ticket cost?
    More than Wisconsin, actually.

    Season ticket $60 (students free)

    Single game $7, youth $5

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    Quote Originally Posted by robertearle View Post
    More than Wisconsin, actually.

    Season ticket $60 (students free)

    Single game $7, youth $5
    When Minnesota was at the Ralph I know they had tics for a buck to try to get fans there and hopefully get them there for more games. Didn't work.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by icehawk View Post
    When Minnesota was at the Ralph I know they had tics for a buck to try to get fans there and hopefully get them there for more games. Didn't work.
    Gophers at UND this season: first game had 2360, second game 1127.

    Edit: the Friday game was "Pack The Ralph", $1 tickets.
    Last edited by robertearle; 03-30-2017 at 01:14 PM.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by robertearle View Post
    More than Wisconsin, actually.

    Season ticket $60 (students free)

    Single game $7, youth $5
    So they may have brought in another $200,000 with tickets and concessions if they drew 2500....
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