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  • Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
    Reread my post. What the school paid in 2014-16 was to make up for missed or reduced payments owed for 2013 in men's hockey and 2014-15 in the other sports.
    I refer to the FY15 report, section 34, "Athletic Facilities Debt Service, Leases and Rental Fee". There are six UND tenants in REA: MIH, WIH, MBB, WBB, WVB, WSoc. Note only MIH has section 34 fees; thus, only MIH is paying the fee to use REA. WIH et al are getting a free ride.

    You may find the same in the FY14 report, section 30, "Direct Facilities, Maintenance, and Rental".

    Finally in the FY16 report you'll find that UND Athletics, at the directive of the University Senate's Intercollegiate Activities Committee, did a truer account and spread the costs proportionately* across the six facility users. See section 34 "Athletic Facilities Debt Service, Leases and Rental Fee". There, finally, do you see UND MIH not carrying the full load of the expenses related to use and operation of REA.

    My point to this is two-fold: UNM MIH had been carrying the full load of all UND usage of REA thus their financials looked worse than they should; and, WIH and other programs were getting a free ride.

    Gotta pay to play.

    *Nominally, MBB 11%, WBB 11%, MIH 48%, WIH 18%, VB 11%, Soc 1% (as they only have lockers in there).
    The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

    North Dakota Hockey:

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    • Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

      Originally posted by Eeyore View Post
      The average return on the S&P 500 over the last 90 years is about 10%. Adjust that to 7% for inflation. Adjust it down a bit farther if you want to use an alternative inflation measure. Adjust it down yet again if you want to factor in the risk of making your investment at the wrong time. 4% is a perfectly reasonable assumption. Keep in mind that about 40% of that return is dividends, which a lot of calculations of don't include in their figures for returns.
      I know a few investment advisers and money managers that say 4% is an outrageous assumption in today's climate. They get itchy if you talk 3% and will only sign-on to guarantee 2.5%.

      I picked 4% because I could see where (the former CFO of Macy's and Pillsbury) UND president Mark Kennedy made his assumption to get to a $60 million endowment; namely, $2.4 million expenses annuitized up at 4%.
      The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

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      • Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

        Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
        Now, if you happen to have $60 million to invest in UND WIH, please make the check payable to "The UND Foundation's Women's Hockey Endowment".
        So, that's pretty much it in a nutshell from this President? "Ladies, if you want to participate, you're just going to have to enhance this endowment."
        That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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        • Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

          Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
          So, that's pretty much it in a nutshell from this President? "Ladies, if you want to participate, you're just going to have to enhance this endowment."
          Stuff. Costs. Money.

          https://images.fineartamerica.com/im...rt-hudnall.jpg
          Last edited by The Sicatoka; 04-21-2017, 08:33 AM.
          The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

          North Dakota Hockey:

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          • Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

            I've been doing my best to be objective and factual when a lot of emoting on this subject has been happening. Well, I'm going to try to be the nice guy for a minute.


            Add up the number of conference regular season championships, plus conference post season championships, plus national championships, that UND WIH has won, and I personally will pay for that many more seasons of play. As a reader's aid, here's a resource to help you calculate what I'm buying with my bold and gracious offer.
            The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

            North Dakota Hockey:

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            • Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

              Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
              I refer to the FY15 report, section 34, "Athletic Facilities Debt Service, Leases and Rental Fee". There are six UND tenants in REA: MIH, WIH, MBB, WBB, WVB, WSoc. Note only MIH has section 34 fees; thus, only MIH is paying the fee to use REA. WIH et al are getting a free ride.

              You may find the same in the FY14 report, section 30, "Direct Facilities, Maintenance, and Rental".

              Finally in the FY16 report you'll find that UND Athletics, at the directive of the University Senate's Intercollegiate Activities Committee, did a truer account and spread the costs proportionately* across the six facility users. See section 34 "Athletic Facilities Debt Service, Leases and Rental Fee". There, finally, do you see UND MIH not carrying the full load of the expenses related to use and operation of REA.

              My point to this is two-fold: UNM MIH had been carrying the full load of all UND usage of REA thus their financials looked worse than they should; and, WIH and other programs were getting a free ride.

              Gotta pay to play.

              *Nominally, MBB 11%, WBB 11%, MIH 48%, WIH 18%, VB 11%, Soc 1% (as they only have lockers in there).
              I've looked at all the reports from 2010-16 and I agree that men's hockey has paid the bulk of the rental costs. According to Brad Schlossman the rental deal with the arena is that the school pays a percentage of all ticket sales and men's hockey has the highest ticket sales and therefore would have to pay the most to use the arena. Looking at the 2010-12 reports shows men's and women's basketball, men's and women's hockey and women's volleyball all paying 52% of their ticket sales in rent. So, it appears that Brad is correct about the cost of using the arena being tied to ticket sales. And if that is correct then spreading the cost around in 2016 is actually unfair, as it makes the other programs pay more than what the should pay based on their ticket sales. As for women's soccer, I have no idea what, if any arrangement was made, but 2016 is the only year it paid a rental fee.

              However, as I have previously stated, the school paid nowhere near 50-52% of all ticket sales to the arena in 2013 and it appears that it played catch-up in 2014 & 2015, as it paid far more than 50-52% of men's hockey ticket sales for those two years, even as the school charged nothing to the other sports. And again, the basketball rental payments in 2016 just about cover what those teams owed for 2013-15, so it will be interesting to see if the school continues to charge them so much, or even more, with women's hockey no longer using the arena, although we will have to wait 2 years to see.

              Sean
              Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
              Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

              BU Hockey Games
              BU Hockey highlights and extras
              NCAA Hockey Financials
              Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
              I need a kidney; looking for a donor

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              • Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

                Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
                I've been doing my best to be objective and factual when a lot of emoting on this subject has been happening. Well, I'm going to try to be the nice guy for a minute.


                Add up the number of conference regular season championships, plus conference post season championships, plus national championships, that UND WIH has won, and I personally will pay for that many more seasons of play. As a reader's aid, here's a resource to help you calculate what I'm buying with my bold and gracious offer.
                Besides men's and women's hockey how many championships have all the other UND sports won? Should all sports have to win a title within so many years or be eliminated? Is college sports just about winning?

                Sean
                Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
                Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

                BU Hockey Games
                BU Hockey highlights and extras
                NCAA Hockey Financials
                Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
                I need a kidney; looking for a donor

                Comment


                • Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

                  Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
                  I've been doing my best to be objective and factual when a lot of emoting on this subject has been happening. Well, I'm going to try to be the nice guy for a minute.


                  Add up the number of conference regular season championships, plus conference post season championships, plus national championships, that UND WIH has won, and I personally will pay for that many more seasons of play. As a reader's aid, here's a resource to help you calculate what I'm buying with my bold and gracious offer.
                  What if UM, UMD, or Wisconsin were willing to donate a couple of their championchips to help your nice guy gesture?
                  At the outset, we could hang with the dude...

                  Comment


                  • Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

                    Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
                    Besides men's and women's hockey how many championships have all the other UND sports won? Should all sports have to win a title within so many years or be eliminated? Is college sports just about winning?

                    Sean
                    In case this isn't rhetorical...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RAlrzcdfRY
                    At the outset, we could hang with the dude...

                    Comment


                    • Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

                      Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
                      Besides men's and women's hockey how many championships have all the other UND sports won? Should all sports have to win a title within so many years or be eliminated? Is college sports just about winning?
                      Again, UND WIH has no championships of any sort. Nada. Nix. None. Nyet. Nay. Nolo. El zippo.

                      MIH: 8 NC
                      WIH: 0 of any (conf, conf tourney, NC)

                      WBB: 3 NC (DII)
                      FB: 1 NC (DII) and a runner-up

                      Heck, UND pulled off the Big Sky Quad this year -- conference champs in FB, MBB, WBB, and VB (while reigning as MIH national champs).

                      Do you have to win? No. But if the budget must be cut per the Governor and Legislature, you have to start looking at return on investment. When you are red $2,000,000.00 and have nothing to show for it ...


                      PS -- That's $2 million red on one line item in a roughly $24 million budget.
                      Last edited by The Sicatoka; 04-21-2017, 11:10 AM.
                      The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                      North Dakota Hockey:

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                      • Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

                        Originally posted by FiveHoleFrenzy View Post
                        What if UM, UMD, or Wisconsin were willing to donate a couple of their championchips to help your nice guy gesture?
                        UM, UMD, or UW donating those to UND. Not happenin'.
                        The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                        North Dakota Hockey:

                        Comment


                        • Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

                          Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
                          ... ticket sales ....
                          Sean, I don't know why you're locked into ticket sales. It's not a winning argument.

                          UND WIH had minimal, nominal, ticket sales. They'd give tickets away to get anyone to show up. Because I'm a Champions Club member (for other season tickets) I could get free stubs at the box office any time I'd want. And I'd have my choice of 11,000+ open seats.

                          The whole rink was open seating. There'd maybe be a couple hundred people showing up.

                          Ponder that 209 people showed up for a WWCHA first round series game (OSU@UND) last month. 209. Announced, recorded attendance. That doesn't pay the staff to have the arena open for a public event much less power on the lights and the compressors.

                          UND WBB and UND Volleyball outdraw UND WIH. And with smaller losses on the balance sheet.
                          The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                          North Dakota Hockey:

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                          • Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

                            Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
                            To have the same required (remember: state mandated) budget cuts as cutting just WIH ($2.13M expense, $1.91M net loss) UND would have had to cut ...

                            Women's soccer
                            Women's softball
                            Men's indoor track
                            Women's indoor track
                            Men's outdoor track
                            Women's outdoor track
                            Men's cross country
                            Women's cross country

                            This list totals $2.38M expense, $2.18M net loss.

                            Oh, because you want to know about people affected:

                            WIH: 25 players

                            Soccer: 30 players
                            Softball: 23 players
                            WITrack: 41 players
                            Just those three is 94.

                            25 or 94. Roughly four times the impacted people.

                            Your call.
                            I read that the mandated budget cuts were $1.3 million, not the $1.9 million the women's hockey team lost. So, instead of cutting your 8 sports what about cutting women's volleyball? When added to the men's and women's swimming & diving it totals $2.05 million expenses, $1.75 net loss, more than the mandated cuts.
                            women's volleyball - $1,058,483 expenses, $892,516 loss
                            men's swimming & diving - $319,027 expenses, $266,781 loss
                            women's swimming & diving - $672,275 expenses, $589,140 loss

                            Oh, because you want to know about people affected:
                            women's volleyball: 15 players
                            15 or 25. Just 60% of the impacted players.

                            But what about the need to have extra money available for the required scholarships of the Summit League sports? Well, the school could wait and hope that the state's finances improve in the next few years and no further sports teams would need to be cut instead of over cutting now.

                            Sean
                            Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
                            Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

                            BU Hockey Games
                            BU Hockey highlights and extras
                            NCAA Hockey Financials
                            Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
                            I need a kidney; looking for a donor

                            Comment


                            • Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

                              UND is moving to the Summit League and Missouri Valley Football Conference in 2018 and 2020 to save on travel expenses (again, budget).

                              Those leagues also mandate higher levels of spending on scholarships in various sports than the Big Sky required.

                              And, UND was out of balance regarding Title IX (unfair toward the men) both before and after dropping baseball.

                              UND dropped roughly $3.1 million of expense, $2.9 million of red ink, in dropping WIH, M/W S&D.

                              However, it will be reinvesting portions of that back into (a) balancing Title IX, and (b) meeting minimums required by the Summit.

                              The budget model as it existed was unsustainable and was not shaped for future requirements.

                              A rebalancing and realigning had to happen.
                              Last edited by The Sicatoka; 04-21-2017, 11:32 AM.
                              The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                              North Dakota Hockey:

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                              • Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

                                Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
                                Well, the school could wait and hope that the state's finances improve in the next few years and no further sports teams would need to be cut instead of over cutting now.
                                You know the state's finances will be better in the future. You know that.
                                (You can hope in one hand and crap in the other. Tell me which is fuller at the end of the day.)

                                You can not operate a budget on "hope". Not in a state that requires a balanced state budget.

                                And hope don't pay the bills.



                                And regarding "overcutting". Bologna.

                                A year ago UND was sponsoring 21 NCAA DI sports. Dropping baseball made 20. These moves made 17. (MGolf is on life suport: 16.) Most other similarly sized schools are running 16 sports, or they are starving programs just to claim they have them. (Mo State just dropped sports and cut the remainders' budgets 7-12%. That's not a formula for success.)

                                UND was supporting too much and had to realign for the success of the general overall Athletics department.
                                Last edited by The Sicatoka; 04-21-2017, 11:33 AM.
                                The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                                North Dakota Hockey:

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