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Thread: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

  1. #221
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by TovarishchLisa View Post
    This Facebook post by the Lamoureux twins mentions it: https://www.facebook.com/LamoureuxTw...890207/?type=3
    Going to that facebook page made my eyes bleed, but that is a bad look there for sure for the Pres. I wonder when the info leaked out a month or so before the announcement why the program didn't throw a hissyfit then? Maybe t hey could have saved it. Now it's too late.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    I wonder when the info leaked out a month or so before the announcement why the program didn't throw a hissyfit then?
    They were probably in denial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
    They were probably in denial.
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by TovarishchLisa View Post
    This Facebook post by the Lamoureux twins mentions it: https://www.facebook.com/LamoureuxTw...890207/?type=3
    I think they women up there got shafted but lets be honest, that is not an attribution, that is hearsay.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by ne7minder View Post
    I think they women up there got shafted but lets be honest, that is not an attribution, that is hearsay.
    It was a private conversation between an unnamed women's hockey parent and the president.
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by Goon View Post
    It was a private conversation between an unnamed women's hockey parent and the president.
    "I sure do love the irony here; you’re protecting the twins’ right to speak their minds, while chastising others for doing the same when they respond to the twins with facts regarding title 9, finances, and UND.
    Well done! Lol"

    this is pretty typical of the times today, only the Utopians are allowed to give their opinions, any opinion contrary is shouted down, or name calling begins (homophobe, racist, ...yada yada)

    the fact of the matter is it is a boutique sport, the colleges that originally had it were the eastern private schools who needed a sport to serve their white upper income students, and to have a sport they could excel in without getting their rear ends handed to them on a platter by students from low SES background

    when only two countries have a realistic chance at winning Olympic gold, and there is less than 3 dozen universities that have the sport, yes, it is a boutique sport
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Maybe calling it a niche sport would have been better?

    UND could consider reinstating the program as underwater hockey (Octopush). Less expensive and co-ed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ-2S0iFCaA

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by FiveHoleFrenzy View Post
    Maybe calling it a niche sport would have been better?

    UND could consider reinstating the program as underwater hockey (Octopush). Less expensive and co-ed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ-2S0iFCaA
    My concern is that, when they inevitably develop their identity as 'a physical octopush team', people can drown.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by FiveHoleFrenzy View Post
    Maybe calling it a niche sport would have been better?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ-2S0iFCaA
    Hockey, men's and women's is considered a niche sport.
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by pokechecker View Post
    the fact of the matter is it is a boutique sport, the colleges that originally had it were the eastern private schools who needed a sport to serve their white upper income students, and to have a sport they could excel in without getting their rear ends handed to them on a platter by students from low SES background
    The same goes for men's hockley word for word. So should UND drop men's hockey? After all they run it at a loss as well (as they do every sport, with football running the biggest deficit, losing over $2.2 million in 2015-16).

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Pickett View Post
    The same goes for men's hockley word for word. So should UND drop men's hockey? After all they run it at a loss as well (as they do every sport, with football running the biggest deficit, losing over $2.2 million in 2015-16).
    How they manage to lose money in men's hockey while averaging over 11,000 paying customers a game is hard to understand. And it's not like they give them away; for the games vs. the Gophers in October it'll cost you $99 a seat.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by D2D View Post
    How they manage to lose money in men's hockey while averaging over 11,000 paying customers a game is hard to understand. And it's not like they give them away; for the games vs. the Gophers in October it'll cost you $99 a seat.

    http://www.undsports.com/ViewArticle...CLID=204950853
    Well, using UND's 2015-16 ticket sales revenue of 43,764,409 divided by their attendance total of 221,828 gives an average ticket price of just $16.97 per fan. That said, the main reason the men lose money is that they have paid between $1.46 and $2.57 million per year to use the Ralph since 2009, except for 2013 (the only year the men made a profit between 2010 and 2016).

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Kolstadt to Mankato, a match of hackers made in heaven.
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Pickett View Post
    That said, the main reason the men lose money is that they have paid between $1.46 and $2.57 million per year to use the Ralph since 2009, except for 2013 (the only year the men made a profit between 2010 and 2016).
    Who's the "landlord" that receives the program's "rent money"? If the team plays 20 home games the $1.46 - $2.57 million per year amounts to $730,000 - $1,285,000 per game! Since 100% of the cost to build "The Ralph" was funded by Ralph Engelstad's generous donation, it makes me wonder why it's necessary for the team having to pay this kind of money to use it?
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by D2D View Post
    Who's the "landlord" that receives the program's "rent money"? If the team plays 20 home games the $1.46 - $2.57 million per year amounts to $730,000 - $1,285,000 per game! Since 100% of the cost to build "The Ralph" was funded by Ralph Engelstad's generous donation, it makes me wonder why it's necessary for the team having to pay this kind of money to use it?
    May be Ralph was not as generous as everyone thinks. Or maybe when Ralph kicked the bucket, the family that inherited old Ralph's estate was not as generous as Ralph.
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by Goon View Post
    Hockey, men's and women's is considered a niche sport.
    Thanks, Captain Obvious ... But using niche would have probably been more "PC" than boutique in the alleged private conversation.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by D2D View Post
    Who's the "landlord" that receives the program's "rent money"? If the team plays 20 home games the $1.46 - $2.57 million per year amounts to $730,000 - $1,285,000 per game! Since 100% of the cost to build "The Ralph" was funded by Ralph Engelstad's generous donation, it makes me wonder why it's necessary for the team having to pay this kind of money to use it?
    Good questions. I have read on Wikipedia Ralph Engelstad Arena is owned by the Engelstad Family Foundation, but UND called the arena a gift in an article about a $20 million donation to the school by the foundation, which implies the arena is owned by the university. However, the school reported expenses of just over $2.2 million in 2015 and $1.46 million (men's and women's hockey combined) in 2016 in the Debt Services/Leases category (debt service payments (principal and interest, including internal loan programs), leases and rental fees for athletics facilities for the reporting year regardless of entity paying (athletics, institution or other)) of their NCAA financial reports and not the Direct Overhead category (overhead and administrative expenses paid by or charged directly to athletics including: administrative/overhead fees charged by the institution to athletics, facilities maintenance, security, risk management, utilities, equipment repair, telephone, other administrative expenses). Before 2015 the two categories were combined, so the costs could have been all maintenance, but I think that unlikely based on the 2015 & 2016 reports. For what it’s worth, I also checked to see about basketball and volleyball payments for using the Betty and for 2010, ’11 & ’12 the school paid an average of about $100 thousand per year. Starting in 2013 there have been no payments made for either sport, just to men's hockey in 2013, 14 & 15 and both men's and women's hockey in 2016. Also, 2014 & 15 are the two years that men's hockey paid over $2 million in Debt Services/Leases, with 2013 virtually free and the other years in the $1.46 to $1.73 million range. You can see the numbers yourself, either on my NCAA Financials workbook (which currently only has North Dakota information) or directly from the NCAA reports: 2010-14 (click on download this institution's documents and select a year), 2015 & 2016.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Pickett View Post
    The same goes for men's hockley word for word. So should UND drop men's hockey? After all they run it at a loss as well (as they do every sport, with football running the biggest deficit, losing over $2.2 million in 2015-16).

    Sean
    would you even have heard of UND if not for the men's hockey team?

    I could list about 40-50 colleges/universities at the drop of a hat that I never would have heard of if not for men's hockey.

    quick quiz:
    in what city and state is Lake Superior State?
    hint: they boast having had 3200 Canadians in their 70 year history
    that's just 45 a year!
    they have won an NCAA championship in men's hockey, if not for that and the fact that you see them on the scoreboard, you'd never heard of them.

    Ferris State?
    Bowling Green?

    since your are the statistic expert, tell me this:
    1) what is the percentage increase of Canadian students at UND since forming a women's hockey team?
    2) what is the increase of students from Europe?

    back to Lake Superior State. Just 45 Canadians a year? Geezuz, if they didn't have a hockey team it would probably be 30 a year. So IOW, they give free tuition to 10-15 Canadians in order to get 30-35 paying students
    that's beyond boutique
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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    There have always been shenanigans involved in the donation and operation of the Ralph. UND sold its name and reputation to a grifter in deep PR hot water. Twice. The accounting has been pretty much what you'd expect from such an operation.

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    Re: REPORT: North Dakota cutting women's hockey

    Quote Originally Posted by pokechecker View Post
    would you even have heard of UND if not for the men's hockey team?

    I could list about 40-50 colleges/universities at the drop of a hat that I never would have heard of if not for men's hockey.

    quick quiz:
    in what city and state is Lake Superior State?
    hint: they boast having had 3200 Canadians in their 70 year history
    that's just 45 a year!
    they have won an NCAA championship in men's hockey, if not for that and the fact that you see them on the scoreboard, you'd never heard of them.

    Ferris State?
    Bowling Green?

    since your are the statistic expert, tell me this:
    1) what is the percentage increase of Canadian students at UND since forming a women's hockey team?
    2) what is the increase of students from Europe?

    back to Lake Superior State. Just 45 Canadians a year? Geezuz, if they didn't have a hockey team it would probably be 30 a year. So IOW, they give free tuition to 10-15 Canadians in order to get 30-35 paying students
    that's beyond boutique
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