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Thread: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

  1. #121
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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    Maybe a bit of a touchy subject but...ARD in NCAA tournament games has been the goaltender of record which is 4-3. 3 of those are quarterfinal wins with two shutouts. 1-3 in Frozen Four matchups with 1 shutout. As ARM has brought up, It seems like she has been the 2nd best goaltender in the Frozen Four matchups.

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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    The first goal that ARD gave up seemed to be a case of her just being too aggressive. She got way out on the side of her net, but didn't control the puck and couldn't get back in time. That certainly fits with her typical style of play, and obviously it usually serves her well, but it certainly has the potential to be a negative in a championship setting where the other team is much more likely to capitalize on any mistake.

    As far as Tiley goes, anytime you have a game where the #1 seed is shut out and the goalie blocks 40+ shots, the goalie is going to be praised as being amazing and that the other team couldn't solve her, but I have to agree with the general notion that she was solid, but she's also not the reason that Clarkson won. That's not a criticism of her, rather, I think it's just more that Clarkson's defense played great in front of her and they kept Wisconsin's offense from getting into any kind of a rhythm. The few times the Badgers did get quality scoring chances, they didn't really challenge Tiley, often shooting the puck wide or high of the net. Ironically, that is a lot like the one other game I saw Wisconsin lose, at LaBahn against Minnesota, where Peters got the shutout after facing a lot of shots, but she wasn't the reason the Gophers won that game. It's also in contrast to Wisconsin's series at Minnesota and the their tie against UMD at LaBahn, where Peters and Rooney each really did play amazing and did shut down the Badgers.

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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by FiveHoleFrenzy View Post
    Maybe a bit of a touchy subject but...ARD in NCAA tournament games has been the goaltender of record which is 4-3. 3 of those are quarterfinal wins with two shutouts. 1-3 in Frozen Four matchups with 1 shutout. As ARM has brought up, It seems like she has been the 2nd best goaltender in the Frozen Four matchups.
    Don't think ARD was the reason the Badgers lost though. She gave up 2 total goals while her team scored 1! By contrast as seniors Raty allowed 5 total goals in the FF and Leveille 3, but the Gophers scored 9 and 5 in winning in 2013 and 2016. I think it was a scoring issue for the red and white team this year.

    Also, when ARD went out of the net she seemed to slide on the ice further than I'm sure she intended. I blame that one on Newton's laws or maybe too slippery ice.
    Last edited by bluffrinkrat; 03-20-2017 at 12:21 PM. Reason: The Lawler?

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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by bluffrinkrat View Post
    Also, when ARD went out of the net she seemed to slide on the ice further than I'm sure she intended. I blame that one on Newton's laws or maybe too slippery ice.
    What would not be seen on TV were the ice shovel crews that cleaned the entire surface (including the creases), several times per period. This was not done during Friday's games. I know goalies are very particular about "their ice".

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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by FireKnight View Post
    There are a lot of interesting takes on the game. As a Clarkson fan, let me add mine. In the first period and even into the second at times, UW was really frustrating Clarkson. Their system in the neutral zone reminded me of the old NJ Devils teams and you simply can't create any chances when you can't gain your blue line. Once the first goal was scored, Clarkson stayed their course while Wisconsin almost immediately became a desperate team. Oddly enough, this gave Clarkson some more possession time and gave Wisconsin less quality chances. They had a few times where they maintained puck possession in the offensive zone but they never created the opportunities and more importantly second chances that they did in the first period.
    This is spot on. UW should have stayed the course as usual, but they seemed to have panicked. They should have stayed the course after seeing the fruits of staying the course against BC. As I said elsewhere, the issue for UW is their 2nd and 3rd lines for the last 2 months went pretty much silent. The first line is awesome, but the other 2 lines scoring had dropped way off. They have great speed and play great D, but the offensive touch had left them.

    Congrats to Clarkson on a great game and a great season.
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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    Congratulations to UW on a great season. We were surrounded by Badger fans and I was impressed at how gracious they were after the game despite being very disappointed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rochnycsc View Post
    Congratulations to UW on a great season. We were surrounded by Badger fans and I was impressed at how gracious they were after the game despite being very disappointed.
    We have found the Badger faithful to be some of the nicest and most enjoyable fans anywhere. Except for at Ridder. Don't know if it was just the luck of the draw or if it is a strain of gopher hate. But even in Madison with our maroon & gold they were welcoming and fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluffrinkrat View Post
    Don't think ARD was the reason the Badgers lost though. She gave up 2 total goals while her team scored 1! By contrast as seniors Raty allowed 5 total goals in the FF and Leveille 3, but the Gophers scored 9 and 5 in winning in 2013 and 2016. I think it was a scoring issue for the red and white team this year.

    Also, when ARD went out of the net she seemed to slide on the ice further than I'm sure she intended. I blame that one on Newton's laws or maybe too slippery ice.
    It is not about the number of goals allowed but more about the outcome. Tiley allowed 3 against the Gophers and still ended up on the winning side. The 1st goal was scored when ARD was out of position and it ended up being the winner. What was most impressive in my view was how strategic the Clarkson game plan was while the Badgers panicked and scrambled. Shots aside, Clarkson played a better team game. Hats off to them.

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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by Puckdrop14 View Post
    Shots aside, Clarkson played a better team game.
    I'd like to see the shot attempts for the game. It didn't seem like Clarkson had a ton of time in the offensive zone, but it was very efficient (and connected on its passes) once it got there.
    "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by Puckdrop14 View Post
    It is not about the number of goals allowed but more about the outcome.
    Well, of course it's about the outcome. My point was that I do not think ARD's play was the reason the Badgers lost. It was an entire team effort on their part. And an entire team effort on Clarkson's part for their win. They played an extremely disciplined and efficient game. In 2013 Noora Raty did not play a particularly stellar game against BU in giving up 3 goals, but her team still won and that's what will be remembered.

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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbeard View Post
    You're confusing her actual performance with the fact that her team won and against an extremely good team. And if the shots weren't difficult or challenging shots, regardless of how many there were, then it was not a sensational performance. This is not complicated. And it has nothing to do with UW's record this season. If they failed to get any great shots on her that's not her fault and some kudos are due her team mates for helping in that regard.
    Based on the USCHO headline - "Clarkson's Tiley dominates blue paint, women's championship game for Golden Knights" - I guess I'm not alone in my confusion. Clearly Tiley was merely adequate...

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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyEast33 View Post
    Based on the USCHO headline - "Clarkson's Tiley dominates blue paint, women's championship game for Golden Knights" - I guess I'm not alone in my confusion. Clearly Tiley was merely adequate...
    Merely adequate? I would say she was extremely adequate, adequate to the nth degree even.

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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyEast33 View Post
    Based on the USCHO headline - "Clarkson's Tiley dominates blue paint, women's championship game for Golden Knights" - I guess I'm not alone in my confusion. Clearly Tiley was merely adequate...
    Are you telling me that you believe everything you read in the paper or see on the news? Don't forget those in the media are motivated to get people excited and interested just as the colour commentator was attempting to do yesterday after the game. Two or more wrongs don't make a right. All one had to do was pay attention to her throughout the game...which I did.

    And just to be clear, if I wasn't clear enough yesterday, my saying that she wasn't "sensational" yesterday (as per the colour commentator's uber hyperbole) wasn't a criticism of her, it was just an objective observation with respect to what she was given to work with by UW...with the help of her team mates. Not separating fact from emotion/enthusiasm and lumping everything into the same pile doesn't mean it's accurate even if it feels good.

    She had a regular, routine, ho hum, nothing to write home about (as far as difficult shots were concerned) day at the office because that's the material she was given to work with. And she did what is expected of goaltenders...she stopped the regular, routine shots and it worked out. Can you imagine how different the conversation would be if she had let in one or two of those routine shots that should have been routine no brainer saves? The adjective "sensational" would be nowhere to be found. I think most of us here equate the term "sensational" with the term "stood on her head". Do you really think she stood on her head yesterday? She didn't stand on her head because UW didn't make her do so...it wasn't a requirement for success yesterday. The bar was low and that's on UW (with the help of Tiley's team mates) not Tiley.

    If we take your thinking to its logical conclusion then every shutout that a goaltender gets must mean that they stood on their head because...well...they got a shut out...nobody scored on them. Obviously, that just isn't so. I've seen tons of shutouts in the past 10 years where the goaltender didn't have to do much to earn it because that's just the way the game went...just like that's the way it went yesterday.

    My only criticism of her was in her repeated failure to control and protect the pucks in front of her in her crease...with her glove and her stick...when she had plenty of time to do so. Again, all one had to be doing was to be paying attention to see that this was so. Luckily for her and CU, she didn't have to pay for it and it all worked out for them.

    I was pulling for CU. I'm glad they won. I think they deserved to win.

    But that's a different topic than the one that we have been discussing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbeard View Post
    Are you telling me that you believe everything you read in the paper or see on the news? Don't forget those in the media are motivated to get people excited and interested just as the colour commentator was attempting to do yesterday after the game. Two or more wrongs don't make a right. All one had to do was pay attention to her throughout the game...which I did.

    And just to be clear, if I wasn't clear enough yesterday, my saying that she wasn't "sensational" yesterday (as per the colour commentator's uber hyperbole) wasn't a criticism of her, it was just an objective observation with respect to what she was given to work with by UW...with the help of her team mates. Not separating fact from emotion/enthusiasm and lumping everything into the same pile doesn't mean it's accurate even if it feels good.

    She had a regular, routine, ho hum, nothing to write home about (as far as difficult shots were concerned) day at the office because that's the material she was given to work with. And she did what is expected of goaltenders...she stopped the regular, routine shots and it worked out. Can you imagine how different the conversation would be if she had let in one or two of those routine shots that should have been routine no brainer saves? The adjective "sensational" would be nowhere to be found. I think most of us here equate the term "sensational" with the term "stood on her head". Do you really think she stood on her head yesterday? She didn't stand on her head because UW didn't make her do so...it wasn't a requirement for success yesterday. The bar was low and that's on UW (with the help of Tiley's team mates) not Tiley.

    If we take your thinking to its logical conclusion then every shutout that a goaltender gets must mean that they stood on their head because...well...they got a shut out...nobody scored on them. Obviously, that just isn't so. I've seen tons of shutouts in the past 10 years where the goaltender didn't have to do much to earn it because that's just the way the game went...just like that's the way it went yesterday.

    My only criticism of her was in her repeated failure to control and protect the pucks in front of her in her crease...with her glove and her stick...when she had plenty of time to do so. Again, all one had to be doing was to be paying attention to see that this was so. Luckily for her and CU, she didn't have to pay for it and it all worked out for them.

    I was pulling for CU. I'm glad they won. I think they deserved to win.

    But that's a different topic than the one that we have been discussing.
    You've more than beaten this dead horse. You know what you saw. That should be enough to satisfy yourself. It's not necessary to continue trying to convince everyone else that their opinions are wrong. It's gotten old already. Time to let it go and move on.

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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyEast33 View Post
    Based on the USCHO headline - "Clarkson's Tiley dominates blue paint, women's championship game for Golden Knights" - I guess I'm not alone in my confusion. Clearly Tiley was merely adequate...
    I'd say more than adequate, but she was not tested as much as is implied in the headline.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    I'd say more than adequate, but she was not tested as much as is implied in the headline.
    It's a freaking headline! What do you think they're going to say after she made 41 saves in the biggest, most important, highest pressure game of the year, and playing against the favored team and the Patty Kaz winning goalie at the other end of the ice. With those being the circumstances, I think we can cut her and the person that decided on the headline some slack!

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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyEast33 View Post
    Based on the USCHO headline - "Clarkson's Tiley dominates blue paint, women's championship game for Golden Knights" - I guess I'm not alone in my confusion. Clearly Tiley was merely adequate...
    Unless I'm misreading this which I don't think I am, it appears HE33 should have used some kind of emoticon to indicate sarcasm for a couple of you.

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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by FiveHoleFrenzy View Post
    Unless I'm misreading this which I don't think I am, it appears HE33 should have used some kind of emoticon to indicate sarcasm for a couple of you.
    If I misinterpreted his intent then he has my apology.

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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbeard View Post
    If I misinterpreted his intent then he has my apology.
    I apologize for nothing. The headline sucked.
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    Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
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    Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

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    Re: NC$$ Title: Clarkson vs Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    I apologize for nothing. The headline sucked.
    Say, did you ever get a visit in to the psyche ward? You seem kind of agitated...Course maybe that's just hangover effect from all the thinner you consumed.

    I liked your phrase so I added it as my signature...
    Last edited by FiveHoleFrenzy; 03-21-2017 at 03:28 PM.

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