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  • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

    Originally posted by ARM View Post
    As far as the women, I can see both sides. The current women's players may lack some perspective of history and Olympic athletes a few generations back who received almost no support from a national body and had to train on their own.
    One difference, though, is that back in those days, the athletes in sports with little financial backing were part-timers. It was acknowledged by everyone that they had a first job and that they were only athletes in their spare time. That's why it was just accepted that the Americans were going to lose badly in sports like bobsled, where the West German government openly provided financial support to their team, to say nothing of the Soviet bloc countries.

    USA Hockey wants to have it both ways. They don't want to support the women's team, but they also want the players to be in year round, full time training. That's not a model that can survive if the players decide that they've had enough of living in penury. USA Hockey needs to decide what it wants, and then provide the support necessary to fund those desires. If what it wants to pay for is amateur players, than amateur players are what it's going to get.

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    • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

      Originally posted by BoSox3066 View Post
      It's a chicken and egg argument tho. What comes first, interest because of marketing? Or do marketers gravitate to things that have fan interest?
      I asked my daughter this as she is taking Marketing this year in school. Her answer was that before marketing anything they look at the target group and then come up with a marketing campaign. Otherwise, they will be wasting their money. She also said I could talk to her teacher if I wanted to know more. So, in answer to your questions it would appear that marketers look for fan interest first and then they are willing to market the product if they think it will help to sell it.

      Sean
      Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
      Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

      BU Hockey Games
      BU Hockey highlights and extras
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      Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
      I need a kidney; looking for a donor

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      • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

        Also, keep in mind that, from a legal standpoint, USA Hockey cannot just declare that there is more interest in men's hockey, and so they are going to provide more support for it. The Amateur Sports Act mandates that national governing bodies provide equal support to both genders in their sport. It says nothing about looking at attendance.

        The issue of pay for the women on the national team is complicated by the fact that the money that allows the men on the senior national team to be professionals does not come from USA Hockey; it comes from the NHL. This is something that makes this situation different than the dispute last year involving the U.S. women's soccer team; U.S. Soccer does provide substantial direct financial support to the men's players, and the dispute was over whether the money provided to the women in a complicated arrangement amounted to equivalent support to what the men get in an equally complicated but differently structured system. My guess is that the women hockey players have little legal case against USA Hockey over their wages.

        The same cannot be said for the support provided to youth programs. I'm not a big fan of the USNTDP on the boys' side and wouldn't want to see it implemented for the girls, but it's indisputable that the boys' programs receive a lot more financial support then do the girls'. That includes not only the USNTDP itself, but also the subsidies that USA Hockey provides to the USHL. As I've said before, the problem with trying to make a legal case of it is finding someone who both has standing to sue and a desire to actually do so. But it seems pretty clear that USA Hockey is not meeting its legal obligations on this point.

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        • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

          Originally posted by joecct View Post
          Replacements being contacted

          http://images.thecarconnection.com/l...00400129_l.jpg

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          • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

            Originally posted by Eeyore View Post

            The issue of pay for the women on the national team is complicated by the fact that the money that allows the men on the senior national team to be professionals does not come from USA Hockey; it comes from the NHL.
            nothing complicated about that, 15-20,000 seat arenas are filled with people paying 30 to over a hundred bucks to watch, not to mention TV revenue
            their only chance to put paying fans in the seats is to win gold, the US likes a winner, everyone else is a loser
            but you did nail it, this all came about because the NWHL cut their pay and probably won't last unless something drastic happens
            they can't get blood out of a turnip , the NWHL, so they are going after the only organization that does

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            • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

              Originally posted by pokechecker View Post
              nothing complicated about that, 15-20,000 seat arenas are filled with people paying 30 to over a hundred bucks to watch, not to mention TV revenue
              their only chance to put paying fans in the seats is to win gold, the US likes a winner, everyone else is a loser
              but you did nail it, this all came about because the NWHL cut their pay and probably won't last unless something drastic happens
              they can't get blood out of a turnip , the NWHL, so they are going after the only organization that does
              Are you seriously blaming this all on the NWHL?

              Sean
              Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
              Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

              BU Hockey Games
              BU Hockey highlights and extras
              NCAA Hockey Financials
              Women's Division I Longest Hockey Games
              I need a kidney; looking for a donor

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              • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

                Originally posted by ARM View Post
                I think we all understand that. But from a sense of fairness, it isn't particularly fair that a rather average MLB baseball player today can earn many times what Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays made. And it doesn't make a lot of sense that a CEO of a corporation that is losing money or a shooting guard from a last-place team demands a bigger salary than one of the best heart surgeons. It is based on supply and demand, yes, but why we value one thing over another isn't always logical.

                As far as the women, I can see both sides. The current women's players may lack some perspective of history and Olympic athletes a few generations back who received almost no support from a national body and had to train on their own. At the same time, giving more aid to just another fourth-line grinder on a men's team than you give to the best women hockey players in the world just because he was born with a Y chromosome doesn't seem right. Yes, he is bigger, stronger, faster. But when I watched the MN boys' HS tourney a couple weeks back, those players were better physically than the women's NCAA players. They were much better at finishing. However, they didn't always hold to the fundamentals of the game. Kids were constantly turning the puck over because they'd reach back with one hand while skating away from the play, and if they lost it, they just kept going. Women's players seem far more disciplined about stopping and starting and getting back in the play quickly, rather than just doing what is easy.

                And when it comes to a U.S. Olympic team, there isn't a lot more demand for success by men over women. In sports like figure skating and gymnastics, I think there is more weight (and ratings) on the women's side. I've watch many a graphic that NBC puts up showing medal counts by country, and a lot of times, the American women are doing the bulk of the winning. As a country, we want to win the gold medal in women's ice hockey, even if we only care about it for a couple of weeks every four years. If we suddenly have no better chance than Russia does of winning gold in women's ice hockey because the best women retire as soon as they graduate from college, then it gets harder to hold viewer interest and sell those Big Macs.
                you have pretty much laid it out why the women hockey players get peanuts, people don't want to watch them, they want to watch women skate, but not with sticks and pucks, but in pretty sequined dresses or watch women in leotards prancing on gym apparatus

                apparently those of us who watch them play hockey are the odd ones

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                • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

                  I'm hoping Trump fixes this!

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                  • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

                    How many USWNT members get backballed for the Olympics?
                    CCT '77 & '78
                    4 kids
                    5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                    1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                    ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                    - Benjamin Franklin

                    Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                    I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                    • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

                      Originally posted by ARM View Post
                      I think we all understand that. But from a sense of fairness, it isn't particularly fair that a rather average MLB baseball player today can earn many times what Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays made.
                      I know he said this many times in his later years, usually in referring to Joe DiMaggio, but maybe someone hasn't heard it. One time on the Tonight Show Johnny Carson asked Mickey Mantle what he thought he would be worth in the free agency market today. He said he didn't know, but he would probably just go into Mr Steinbrenner's office and say, "Hello, partner."
                      "Everything that rises must converge." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

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                      • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

                        When will USAH realize they are not holding a winning hand??

                        http://deadspin.com/usa-hockey-tries...epl-1793638637
                        CCT '77 & '78
                        4 kids
                        5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                        1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                        ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                        - Benjamin Franklin

                        Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                        I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                        Comment


                        • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

                          D-III scoring champ and USCHO player of the year and ACHA player of year Dani Sibley tweeted she said no today
                          "So life's a *****. What do you want to do, cry about it? " - Kara "Starbuck" Thrace

                          "Wanna go get sugared up on mochas?" - Willow Rosenberg

                          Check my website. College hockey; it's what it's all about!

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                          • Originally posted by Arafel View Post
                            D-III scoring champ and USCHO player of the year and ACHA player of year Dani Sibley tweeted she said no today
                            Love it! Even D3 players are telling USA Hockey to shove it! High school and 19U players will be next to be invited to be scab players...girls, tell the money-grubbing brainiacs at USA Hockey a resounding NO! Stand in support of the National Team players! Let's find out how much more egg USA Hockey wants piled on their faces! Lol, what a joke they are!

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                            • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

                              What subsidies do other female athletes get? For example rowing? With the amount of girls playing hockey and the dues paid by them USA hockey needs to step up here. Their model is skewed. Do we really need a U17 team in Michigan?

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                              • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

                                More grist for the mill:

                                “The report found that U.S.A. Hockey is the only national governing body among American Winter Olympic sports in which women account for less than 20 percent of the board of directors.”

                                https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/24/s...eadership.html

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