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2017 Women's World Championships

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  • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

    Originally posted by Timothy A View Post
    All parties can gain something tangible from a butt kicking. The winner undoubtedly will have some players who probably don't get to contribute all the time get to contribute and they can gain some valuable playing time and confidence. The loser will have some players who learn from the experience and the the viewer such as me has a fun time watching. The opposing team's viewers can see some great play by the winner.
    Let's set aside the subjective discussion of adults who enjoy stealing candy from babies, and focus on the fact that games between badly mismatched teams are not actually good learning experiences for anyone. The key element of learning from experience is taking the things that you do that don't work against the competition and figuring out what does work. If you are a lot better than your opponent, there probably aren't very many things that you do that don't work, so you don't improve. And a lot of the confidence that you build can be confidence in things that won't work against a better opponent.

    If you are a lot worse than your opponent, you have plenty of things that don't work, but you probably aren't capable of making the adjustments necessary to find things that do. Even your new ideas get stuffed back in your face. You don't learn how to be better that way. I suspect that the friend you played tennis with spent some of the time teaching you rather than just destroying you, which makes it a very different enterprise than a fully competitive game where your opponent has no interest in stopping to help you out.

    This is true in all sorts of ways; I sometimes see it when involved in a writers' group that mixes published pros and those who just write fiction for fun. A lot of the time, the critiquing of the amateurs' stories is at a level that doesn't do them any good given where they are and what they are trying to do. I confess that I'm one of the ones who has a very hard time dialing things back when critiquing, which is why I don't participate in that sort of mixed group anymore.

    In sports, the most obvious example is minor league baseball. It's set up with about seven levels of competition for a reason. One of the surest ways to ruin a prospect is to push him up to a level that he isn't ready for.* No one sends a kid drafted out of high school to AA for his first pro experience, because he won't even know what to do with the assortment of breaking balls he's going to see. If it turns out that he could have started at AA, it means you drafted Mike Trout.**

    In order to provide a good learning experience, you have to put someone in a position where they're competing in a population of roughly comparable skill level.

    *Why, yes, I did take Mike Zunino with the first pick in my fantasy league's 2012 draft, only to watch the Mariners screw him up completely. Thanks for asking.

    **On the other hand, I also took Trout with the tenth pick in 2009, and I'm still feeling pretty smug about that.

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    • Originally posted by Chaffron View Post
      The team canada women (besides the rookies) don't even look as devastated or distraught anymore compared to the last 2 world championship losses. Losing is the new normal.
      You obviously were not watching the same game we were at. There were a lot of tears on the ice. Maybe it would help if you could belittle them more.

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      • Originally posted by ManBehindTheCurtain View Post
        For me it isn't that the Canada goaler was outstanding. Szabodos played well but great defense is team defense. I think Canada plays great team defense. If Canada holds USA scoring down I just don't think we should all be shouting how great the goaler played.

        For example, on Carpenter's great chance for the USA in the third period the TSN team of Black and Pounder went all in with the idea that Szabados had made a great save. I thought that the D had squeezed down and left only a small path through on top of the crease, a path that Szabados was prepared to defend and which she very successfully did defend. Good save but I think the greater credit for that save goes to the other five Canadian players on the ice.
        That is an excellent take and spot on.

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        • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

          Originally posted by thirdtime's . . . View Post
          THIS THIS and THIS to all the plaudits! (Amazing what a group of "whining," "choking" women can accomplish, isn't it?)


          For those who might have missed Coyne to Knight:

          https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/s...sa-canada.html
          This goes to the comment I made last night about this story over the last month or so and the win last night being good for the sport.

          The rhubarb between the Team US players and USA Hockey in the weeks leading up to the tournament provided lots of high profile and FREE PR....this New York Times article is part of the proof...(as a comparison, when UMD won the FF with 34.6 seconds left on the clock in triple OT in 2010, (so 2 full games), making them the first team to win 5 FF Championships, there was a three line mention of it in the New York Times (among many other US newspapers) and that was a big deal at the time…so, now, check out the posted New York Times article for size and graphics seven years later…My point, again, is that the rhubarb and Team USA’s win last night are good for the sport…very good.

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          • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

            Originally posted by Eeyore View Post
            I still haven't looked up who made the actual all-tournament team, but I'll offer mine. A few caveats, first:
            Eeyore, this is an excellent breakdown of the tournament. I watched only a handful of games, and those mostly online, so I appreciate your perspective as one who saw most of the games. For the games that I did see, I completely agree with your assessments.

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            • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

              Originally posted by Blackbeard View Post
              This goes to the comment I made last night about this story over the last month or so and the win last night being good for the sport.

              The rhubarb between the Team US players and USA Hockey in the weeks leading up to the tournament provided lots of high profile and FREE PR....this New York Times article is part of the proof...(as a comparison, when UMD won the FF with 34.6 seconds left on the clock in triple OT in 2010, (so 2 full games), making them the first team to win 5 FF Championships, there was a three line mention of it in the New York Times (among many other US newspapers) and that was a big deal at the time…so, now, check out the posted New York Times article for size and graphics seven years later…My point, again, is that the rhubarb and Team USA’s win last night are good for the sport…very good.
              And when Clarkson won the NCAA title this season, the LA Times ran this:

              https://***********/bradwphoto/statu...201094/photo/1
              Last edited by joecct; 04-08-2017, 03:34 PM.
              CCT '77 & '78
              4 kids
              5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
              1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

              ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
              - Benjamin Franklin

              Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

              I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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              • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

                A question for those who are more familiar with the Canadian program than i:

                The general agreement on this board is that the US' team speed was the decisive factor, and that has been true for several years. My question is, does the Canadian selection process tilt toward more experienced (and presumably, less mobile) players, or is the Canadian system lacking in the kind of speed that the Americans possess?

                Obviously, speed isn't everything, but I think we learned that lack of speed isn't everything, either. Fast, skilled players seem to be preferable to medium-fast, skilled players. Is Canada hiding a bunch of rocket-fueled 16-year-olds? Or, will they have to train generations of teams to play a neutral zone trap?

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                • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

                  (second) best day ever! #murica
                  (where the heart beats)

                  bleep.

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                  • Eeyore, "published pros" or "published prose"?!

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                    • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

                      Originally posted by Leather helmet View Post
                      A question for those who are more familiar with the Canadian program than i:

                      The general agreement on this board is that the US' team speed was the decisive factor, and that has been true for several years. My question is, does the Canadian selection process tilt toward more experienced (and presumably, less mobile) players, or is the Canadian system lacking in the kind of speed that the Americans possess?

                      Obviously, speed isn't everything, but I think we learned that lack of speed isn't everything, either. Fast, skilled players seem to be preferable to medium-fast, skilled players. Is Canada hiding a bunch of rocket-fueled 16-year-olds? Or, will they have to train generations of teams to play a neutral zone trap?
                      I think part of the answer to your question is the development program/philosophy. The US program puts more of an emphasis on skating, and that shows up in both the Man and Womens National and U18/U20 teams. Speed alone is not the be all endall, but the US has more of it due to their development strategy compared to Canada. The US has won several world Juniors and Many Womens worlds partly as a result of that. I don't think Canada has a lot of "rocket fuelled" hidden gems hidden in their ranks. The total talent pool between the two countries is similar in size, (that changed a lot compared to 10-15 years ago when the Canadian pool was much deeper), just the development approach is different. That is visible in both the Womens and also in the Men's Junior programs (U18 and U20).

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                      • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

                        Originally posted by joecct View Post
                        And when Clarkson won the NCAA title this season, the LA Times ran this:

                        https://***********/bradwphoto/statu...201094/photo/1
                        Haha. Sometimes it seems like you can't get any respect no matter what you accomplish.

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                        • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

                          Originally posted by Blackbeard View Post
                          Haha. Sometimes it seems like you can't get any respect no matter what you accomplish.
                          I don't think college hockey is too big a deal in L.A.
                          Wouldn't take it too seriously.
                          Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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                          • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

                            Originally posted by Blackbeard View Post
                            . . . the rhubarb and Team USA’s win last night are good for the sport…very good.
                            (1) Agreed.
                            (2) Thank you for providing/confirming historical context for this coverage, and thanks for reintroducing the word “rhubarb” into the sport's lexicon.
                            (3) I think the game's speed stymied the announcer’s booth too. “There goes Spooner,” “There goes Poulin,” interspersed with the more than occasional “Here come the Americans!” Four lines? Who knew, other than Eeyore? Things got better as the game progressed. The puck carrier was usually identified, but lines, D-pairings, PP/PK units? I know it must be a tough gig: once a year, new players, new numbers, but, as FHF says, speed kills.
                            (4) Looks like Coyne and Knight have practiced that a thousand times.
                            (5) Great game.
                            Last edited by thirdtime's . . .; 04-09-2017, 12:41 AM.

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                            • Re: 2017 Women's World Championships

                              Originally posted by OnMAA View Post
                              The total talent pool between the two countries is similar in size, (that changed a lot compared to 10-15 years ago when the Canadian pool was much deeper)
                              I saw numbers for USA hockey that said ~35,000 women and Canada has ~85,000. While the US is catching up I don't think they are close. But I do appreciate you take on development philosophies. I am surprised to hear the US is more focused on skating, when my kids played (15-20 years ago) I felt like they were to focused on games & game play and needed more skating. I would encourage them to hit the outdoor ice as much as possible and play pick up with kids that showed up because they got a lot more skating in those sessions.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rstarr View Post
                                (second) best day ever! #murica
                                omg
                                Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
                                Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
                                Twitter: @Salzano14


                                Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

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