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Thread: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    When Borek arrived at UNH in 2002-03 the team advanced to its fourth frozen four and second title game in six years. And slowly but consistently the recruiting got worse and worse. If things are different at PC it will be because you (rightly) have a HC heavily involved in recruiting. Not because of the lofty situation Borek walked into...

    Also of note, soon after his arrival PC lost Mike Vecch...I mean, Jordan Kawaguchi...after asking him to defer. That would be second in the BCHL with 85 points and heading to North Dakota, Jordan Kawaguchi...

    If you run into Leaman, you'd be wise to suggest he continue keeping a close eye on all recruiting decisions. I'd hate for you guys to end up with a team full of Jason O'Neill's while players like JK are starring for other programs...
    If you see my comments on the PC thread...I am all over Nate's coaching decisions and have always questioned the Borek move.
    Yes I am the former member known as Zlax45

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Quote Originally Posted by chickod View Post
    More bizarre than the statement itself, to me, was what his point was in even making it.
    Because he's a bitter delusional old man who sees his goodwill being destroyed and like a gambler seeing his chips dwindle down, has fallen into magical thinking that he can make everything end well if he just wins the next hand, and he was just three aces away from winning the last hand.
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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
    Inattention is the word for me. First by Umile. When McCloskey was assistant, and Lassonde too, Umile had guys who knew how to use UNH's advantages to recruit. Then McCloskey went to the women's side and we got Borek. With him it was a slow, drip, drip, drip .... No doubt Umile is,ultimately responsible for these failures but my take always was that Umile was detached from recruiting. More than once I can recall remarks he would make about a freshman's skills, seemingly surprised about what a kid could do. You could argue that he should have been more engaged, but his m.o. worked in an earlier era so why not now.
    And there you have it. When evaluating why Umile came up short in so many games, I never ever want to hear anybody talk about how fierce a competitor he is, how much energy he devoted to the program, or how he bleeds blue and deserved better.

    He abdicated half of his job, while York was on the road helping recruit that last necessary player. Just like he grabbed the last bit of money on the table even though it was harmful to the future of the program, he refused to do that last little bit to help UNH get over the hump. Stop the narrative about his tireless devotion to winning.
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  4. #144
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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    Because he's a bitter delusional old man who sees his goodwill being destroyed and like a gambler seeing his chips dwindle down, has fallen into magical thinking that he can make everything end well if he just wins the next hand, and he was just three aces away from winning the last hand.
    Typical of a coach to think he can win the next hand. Don't think he is alone in that.
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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Quote Originally Posted by scoreboard View Post
    If Umile said that he really should be fired. Dumbest statement ever. Just think, in his mind, had they beaten Lowell on Sunday, they would have been just 6 more straight wins away from a National Championship. So close.... Delusional.
    http://www.fosters.com/sports/201703...er-lost-season

    "If you take this year's record we've got to up it by six games," he said. "We've got to win six more games and that would get us to 21. With 21 we'd be back in the NCAA tournament. That's what we want to do. We want to compete in that thing every year."
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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    I think the entire "braintrust" needs to brush up on things. They all seem to be laboring under the impression that 21 wins magically gets you into the NCAA, regardless of strength of schedule.

    http://unhhockeyblog.blogspot.com/20...ead-coach.html
    Lowry: That brings up the strength of schedule. It's going to be harder given that the schedule and the teams you're playing out of conference this year. Is it going to be harder to accumulate the points that you need to get an invite to the NCAA tournament?

    Souza: The PairWise formula is an algorithm beyond my math capabilities. All I know is that you're right on the money. You need to win in non-league games and the bottom line is that the more games you win the easier it is to get into the NCAA tournament. You definitely need to win your fair share of Hockey East games.

    In terms of strength of schedule, I don't know... certainly, the stronger your schedule maybe gives you a little bit of wiggle room to lose a game here or there. The bottom line is that we want to win. You hit the nail on the head, you want to win the majority of non-league games. If you do that, you finish in the top half of hockey east, you've got a good chance of making to the NCAA tournament. That's about as cut and dry as it gets. You know all the Hockey East teams are going to be competitive. Last year we had six teams in the tournament, it's amazing. Six out of 16. It's a tough conference and we want to be at the top of it.
    Although cutting him some slack, he may know it but can't tell his simplistic and disengaged boss the truth to stop scheduling cupcakes.

    Just looking at this year's PWR should tell them 21 is not the magic number.

    Rank Team PWR W-L-T Win % Win % Rank RPI RPI Rank
    1 Denver 59 28-6-4 .7895 2 .6073 1
    2 Minnesota-Duluth 58 23-6-7 .7361 3t .5977 2
    3 Harvard 57 24-5-2 .8065 1 .5917* 3
    4 Western Michigan 56 22-10-5 .6622 10 .5701 4
    5 Minnesota 55 23-10-3 .6806 8t .5676* 5
    6 Boston University 54 23-10-3 .6806 8t .5657* 6
    7 Union 53 25-8-3 .7361 3t .5623* 7
    8 Massachusetts-Lowell 52 24-10-3 .6892 7 .5572 8
    9 Cornell 51 20-7-5 .7031 5 .5501 9
    10 Notre Dame 50 21-10-5 .6528 12 .5499 10
    11 North Dakota 49 20-14-3 .5811 21 .5496 11
    12t Providence 47 22-11-5 .6447 14t .5478 12
    12t Penn State 47 22-11-2 .6571 11 .5478* 13
    14 Ohio State 46 21-10-6 .6486 13 .5467 14
    15t Air Force 45 24-9-5 .6974 6 .5433 15
    15t Boston College 45 20-14-4 .5789 22 .5384 16
    17 Vermont 43 20-13-5 .5921 20 .5351 17
    20 Quinnipiac 40 23-14-2 .6154 17t .5299 20
    25 Canisius 35 21-10-7 .6447 14t .5171 25
    26 Robert Morris 34 21-11-4 .6389 16 .5137 26
    27 Minnesota State 33 22-13-4 .6154 17t .5126 27
    28 Michigan Tech 32 22-14-7 .5930 19 .5116 28
    29 Bemidji State 31 22-16-3 .5732 24 .5047 29
    36 Bowling Green 24 21-17-2 .5500 27 .4926 36
    Last edited by NCAA watcher; 03-17-2017 at 06:27 AM.
    UNH Hockey:
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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
    No doubt Umile is,ultimately responsible for these failures but my take always was that Umile was detached from recruiting. You could argue that he should have been more engaged, but his m.o. worked in an earlier era so why not now.
    Umile stumbled into his success. He literally inherited Kullen's 87 and 88 classes that produced 8 quality players (Winnes, Dean, Plavsic, McIntyre, Amodeo, Flanagan, Mitrovic, and Scott Morrow) and were the core as the program went from 7 wins to the 92 NCAAs. His own 89, 90 and 91 classes were pretty weak, complimentary parts to that 92 NCAA team. When Kullen's kids graduated, Umile's own recruits were inadequate, and the team slipped back to 18 wins in 93. Thankfully in 92 he got McCloskey, who then produced the next wave of kids who formed the core of the 94 to 02 run, starting with Bogi, Nolan and Murray in 93-94, and Mowers, Nikulas.

    Essentially, Umile walked into a super situation, nearly killed it, then got lucky McCloskey came along. When he no longer could piggy-back off of the work of his assistants, his success ceased. You can understand the Borek supporters' lament that Borek -- for all of his own flaws -- really was asked to do too much on his own while burdened by Umile.

    Now, managing this by delegating is not as easy as I make it sound, but Umile ultimately bears the burden of not having done enough to help during the good times to put them over the top, and not doing enough during the bad times to prevent the slide. That will be his legacy -- just enough to fall short.
    Last edited by NCAA watcher; 03-17-2017 at 07:23 AM.
    UNH Hockey:
    You can hold onto something so tight
    You've already lost it.
    Dragging me down, that's not the way it used to be.
    You can't even remember what I'm trying to forget.

  8. #148
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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    Because he's a bitter delusional old man who sees his goodwill being destroyed and like a gambler seeing his chips dwindle down, has fallen into magical thinking that he can make everything end well if he just wins the next hand, and he was just three aces away from winning the last hand.
    Honestly, I'm not sure this is a fair thing to say.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010 View Post
    The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
    You acknowledged that you wouldn't walk away. So how can one who also would be in it for the money disparage someone who is just like you? He has a three year deal, the third year is upon us and you want him to walk away when you yourself imply that you wouldn't. How about we look at the other side of this "negotiating table." Why no hate on Marty for, one, not firing him two years ago and, two, not offering a buyout so he would leave now. If Marty was looking forward to changing the culture, why not get a jump start by persuading the University to okay paying Umile off to ride into the sunset?
    Greg, you oversimplified my answer to try to fit your point.

    And if you think I've absolved the AD for not buying out Coach's final year, then you're simply not paying attention.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Zlax45 View Post
    If you see my comments on the PC thread...I am all over Nate's coaching decisions and have always questioned the Borek move.
    I'm sure you will have a hyper vigilant coach who is on top of things...like him or leave him I suspect Nate Leaman is ultimately in charge.
    'Course am on the outside looking in. Good luck in the NCAA's (sigh).

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    And there you have it. When evaluating why Umile came up short in so many games, I never ever want to hear anybody talk about how fierce a competitor he is, how much energy he devoted to the program, or how he bleeds blue and deserved better.

    He abdicated half of his job, while York was on the road helping recruit that last necessary player. Just like he grabbed the last bit of money on the table even though it was harmful to the future of the program, he refused to do that last little bit to help UNH get over the hump. Stop the narrative about his tireless devotion to winning.
    Tough but fair. If Coach Umile was as good as Umile the Negotiator (see May 2000 and March 2017 - two instances, at least - where Coach put the wood to UNH at the bargaining table), he'd have won the D-1 title at least once, and he'd be retiring as the "conquering hero". I know my personal take on Coach's legacy shifted sharply for the worse when I confirmed for myself just how detached he'd become from his own program. Reading stories about Coach York heading off to Saskatchewan during the holidays a year or two ago hammered that point home.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snively65 View Post
    But, six wins against BU, BC, and NICC might have done it; I am sure that is what Umile meant.
    Nice to see you posting sir!! Yeah I think it's all PR...smoke and mirrors about the season to pacify those who don't get it. Heck even I do....

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyRef View Post
    I'm sure you will have a hyper vigilant coach who is on top of things...like him or leave him I suspect Nate Leaman is ultimately in charge.
    Hey, he learned from one of the best. And no one - not even Walshy himself - got all of the coaching decisions right. But I like my chances a whole lot better when my head coach leaves no question he is in charge, isn't going to delegate big decisions to someone else, and isn't afraid to go the extra mile on the recruiting trails to make sure he gets his guys - the right guys. If the PC folks ever get tired of Leaman, we'll be happy to take him off your hands.
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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    Umile stumbled into his success. He literally inherited Kullen's 87 and 88 classes that produced 8 quality players (Winnes, Dean, Plavsic, McIntyre, Amodeo, Flanagan, Mitrovic, and Scott Morrow) and were the core as the program went from 7 wins to the 92 NCAAs. His own 89, 90 and 91 classes were pretty weak, complimentary parts to that 92 NCAA team. When Kullen's kids graduated, Umile's own recruits were inadequate, and the team slipped back to 18 wins in 93. Thankfully in 92 he got McCloskey, who then produced the next wave of kids who formed the core of the 94 to 02 run, starting with Bogi, Nolan and Murray in 93-94, and Mowers, Nikulas.

    Essentially, Umile walked into a super situation, nearly killed it, then got lucky McCloskey came along. When he no longer could piggy-back off of the work of his assistants, his success ceased. You can understand the Borek supporters' lament that Borek -- for all of his own flaws -- really was asked to do too much on his own while burdened by Umile.

    Now, managing this by delegating is not as easy as I make it sound, but Umile ultimately bears the burden of not having done enough to help during the good times to put them over the top, and not doing enough during the bad times to prevent the slide. That will be his legacy -- just enough to fall short.
    Watcher, I always enjoy your posts but the ones from this morning should just be cut and pasted into the Official History of UNH Hockey 1990 2020 Edition. Absolutely nailed it, particularly this one but the others as well.

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Murray View Post
    Reading stories about Coach York heading off to Saskatchewan during the holidays a year or two ago hammered that point home.
    I don't know Jerry York at all but I get the sense he didn't just go, he probably enjoyed it. First, it's hockey and it's helping his team, so that's great right there but my guess is he saw it as something you don't do every day, getting to see a place very different from New England, just generally an event in his life to be enjoyed, not something he had to do, as in "only a sucker would use up his own time flying to Saskatchewan in the middle of Winter to go sit in a freezing cold rink, I have people who do that crap for me, why would I ever want to do that when I can head over the 3 Chimneys for the 37th day in a row, you know one of my things, I don't need new crap to do."

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Wow. At the risk of being told "Stay out of our thread!" it suddenly looks as though the "let's dump on DU" crowd has emerged out of the woodwork. I knew it would happen eventually, but apparently there's more repressed anger out there than I originally thought...

    It started to get nasty like this a few years ago with Parker also.

    As Kiefer Sutherland said in A Few Good Men, "I see no need to trample on a man's grave."

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Quote Originally Posted by chickod View Post
    Wow. At the risk of being told "Stay out of our thread!" it suddenly looks as though the "let's dump on DU" crowd has emerged out of the woodwork. I knew it would happen eventually, but apparently there's more repressed anger out there than I originally thought...

    It started to get nasty like this a few years ago with Parker also.

    As Kiefer Sutherland said in A Few Good Men, "I see no need to trample on a man's grave."
    It's anyone's thread and not to quibble but I don't see where you're getting the suddenly and repressed parts of it. More like on-going and repeatedly and clearly expressed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chickod View Post
    Wow. At the risk of being told "Stay out of our thread!" it suddenly looks as though the "let's dump on DU" crowd has emerged out of the woodwork. I knew it would happen eventually, but apparently there's more repressed anger out there than I originally thought...

    It started to get nasty like this a few years ago with Parker also.

    As Kiefer Sutherland said in A Few Good Men, "I see no need to trample on a man's grave."
    You know chickod....it's easy for you guys...you never have to worry about not moving onto the next game etc. UNH fans invest a boatload of time money and effort and while we understand the highly competitive nature of D1 hockey...shucks we still wanna win. So don't go shaking the finger (that's my job haha) at the very valid conversation of the past few days.

    Like I have said I give Coach a ton of credit and understand the nature of sports having been involved in one way or another for well over half my life.
    And I was not surprised he's coming back next season but that doesn't excuse the fact that UNH hockey seems to have been neglected and that needs to change. The team deserves better.

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyRef View Post
    You know chickod....it's easy for you guys...you never have to worry about not moving onto the next game etc. UNH fans invest a boatload of time money and effort and while we understand the highly competitive nature of D1 hockey...shucks we still wanna win. So don't go shaking the finger (that's my job haha) at the very valid conversation of the past few days.

    Like I have said I give Coach a ton of credit and understand the nature of sports having been involved in one way or another for well over half my life.
    And I was not surprised he's coming back next season but that doesn't excuse the fact that UNH hockey seems to have been neglected and that needs to change. The team deserves better.
    Yeah, duck and cover along with the rest of the "let's not dump on DU crowd".
    I will not be out cheered in my own building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chickod View Post
    Wow. At the risk of being told "Stay out of our thread!" it suddenly looks as though the "let's dump on DU" crowd has emerged out of the woodwork. I knew it would happen eventually, but apparently there's more repressed anger out there than I originally thought...

    It started to get nasty like this a few years ago with Parker also.

    As Kiefer Sutherland said in A Few Good Men, "I see no need to trample on a man's grave."
    Except Kiefer Sutherland was more than happy to be involved in rubbing out Santiago and trampling on his grave in private. He didn't care to do so in court because it would have only shed light onto his incredibly immoral behavior...

    I see only Tom Cruises and Demi Moores in this thread, fighting to expose the shining light of the truth!

    In all seriousness, Chickod, let me know how you think you and other BU fans would have acted if the BU admin had not acted in the best interests of the program and instead let Parker set his retirement date (at least 3 more seasons down the road) and pick his own (inexperienced) successor...

    The reality is long before it got to this point BU 'encouraged' Parker to leave and then hired a long time NCAA assistant with AHL head coaching experience...
    Last edited by Dan; 03-17-2017 at 12:17 PM.

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