UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

If I'm building an NCAA tournament team - Cleland is a #3 for me, anchoring a solid and very dependable second pairing. He's not the #1 he was forced to be at UNH. Though he did handle the role as admirably as possible.

I love Cleland - but he's straight to the Coast league for a reason...

Yup.

[HockeyRef]

Well based on my unscientific - and just now invented - ranking system; Good is pretty good. Very good (reserved for the very good) and special (elite of elite) are not every day accomplishments...

Special
Very Good
Good
Above Average
Average
Replacement-Level

Cleland is good. His toughness, compete-level and effort just might raise him above good in the direction of almost approaching very good. In a vacuum his on-ice production was very impressive. But, I do think his legend grows by playing on a D corp that has otherwise hovered around average to replacement over the course of his upperclass career.

I don't have the time now, but I'd be interested in seeing how many of his assists came on the PP playing with UNHs loaded first unit. Many of which were simply 15-foot, easy passes to Kelleher or McNicholas on the wings (What could that PP have been if he was a true QB, capable of getting hard shots through to the net)...

If I'm building an NCAA tournament team - Cleland is a #3 for me, anchoring a solid and very dependable second pairing. He's not the #1 he was forced to be at UNH. Though he did handle the role as admirably as possible.

I think he's more than deserving of any accolades he receives - and would have been a fine selection to the HE second or third team for what he did this season. But he accomplished much of what he did punching above his weight class out of necessity.

I'm not a huge fan of the push Butcher made towards the Hobey Hat Trick - because I think it is arguable he was not even the third best player on his team and DU gets to the FF just fine with a D of very goods in Hammond and Davies and goods in Plant, Hillman and Van Voorhees, plus average Fehr. Not to mention their cache of defensive minded forwards and two special goalies. But Butcher IS special and a big reason why they have a chance to win it all.

He's definitely well ahead of Cleland. I love Cleland - but he's straight to the Coast league for a reason...

Speaking of Cleland has he been picked up by another team yet?

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Speaking of Cleland has he been picked up by another team yet?

Not that I'm aware of. It's late in the 'Coast season, so playoff-bound teams are looking to stabilize and solidify their rosters (at least by ECHL standards) for the postseason. If you look at any Coast team's season-long roster, the amount of player traffic is staggering. Players in and out all of the time. It's just the way business is done in the Coast (even more so in lower leagues, like the one the previous year's captain now plays in). Sometimes it's here today, gone later today.

I used to work with the uncle of a former UNH winger who was a solid 4 year player and played on some great teams, but was never individually outstanding. He played briefly in the Coast, and also in another lower (now defunct) league, but was also on call for emergency weekend duty with 2-3 different teams around the New England/Northeast for a few years after he took on a full-time job in the real world. One of those teams was Bridgeport (AHL), which (at least to me) stood out because it was a level beyond what you might ordinarily think he was capable of playing at. Sometimes he would be on call for practices, and sometimes he would be on call for emergency game duty. He was (loosely) contracted to the team independently - not with the NHL club they served as an affiliate for (Islanders at the time, I believe?).

The world of minor league hockey is a world unto itself. It's a rarity to see a kid work his way out of the 'Coast to the NHL (Boguniecki did a brief tour in Dayton, and CDS is trying to do the same, although he's far more likely to stay put as the AHL back-up he seems to have become). Everyone is chasing the dream, and some are willing to chase it longer and harder than others. In all likelihood, Cleland will get another shot in the Coast next season (if he wants?), see how things work out, and eventually make the decision that many former UNH'ers have made before him - i.e. extend your pro career in the European leagues, or give up the dream and get a full-time job in the real world.

Cleland can probably make a decent living at hockey for a few years somewhere, and may even eventually get a shot at the AHL level ... but his window of opportunity (as an undrafted, undersized player) was always going to be narrow, and he has already experienced the joys and sorrows of a 5 game trial in the hockey hotbed of Wheeling WV. Sometimes that's all it takes to convince kids that their efforts are best spent off the ice ... and sometimes it drives them to learn from the experience, and push on to the next on-ice opportunity. Whatever he does, I wish Matias nothing but the best.

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Not that I'm aware of. It's late in the 'Coast season, so playoff-bound teams are looking to stabilize and solidify their rosters (at least by ECHL standards) for the postseason. If you look at any Coast team's season-long roster, the amount of player traffic is staggering. Players in and out all of the time. It's just the way business is done in the Coast (even more so in lower leagues, like the one the previous year's captain now plays in). Sometimes it's here today, gone later today.

I used to work with the uncle of a former UNH winger who was a solid 4 year player and played on some great teams, but was never individually outstanding. He played briefly in the Coast, and also in another lower (now defunct) league, but was also on call for emergency weekend duty with 2-3 different teams around the New England/Northeast for a few years after he took on a full-time job in the real world. One of those teams was Bridgeport (AHL), which (at least to me) stood out because it was a level beyond what you might ordinarily think he was capable of playing at. Sometimes he would be on call for practices, and sometimes he would be on call for emergency game duty. He was (loosely) contracted to the team independently - not with the NHL club they served as an affiliate for (Islanders at the time, I believe?).

The world of minor league hockey is a world unto itself. It's a rarity to see a kid work his way out of the 'Coast to the NHL (Boguniecki did a brief tour in Dayton, and CDS is trying to do the same, although he's far more likely to stay put as the AHL back-up he seems to have become). Everyone is chasing the dream, and some are willing to chase it longer and harder than others. In all likelihood, Cleland will get another shot in the Coast next season (if he wants?), see how things work out, and eventually make the decision that many former UNH'ers have made before him - i.e. extend your pro career in the European leagues, or give up the dream and get a full-time job in the real world.

Cleland can probably make a decent living at hockey for a few years somewhere, and may even eventually get a shot at the AHL level ... but his window of opportunity (as an undrafted, undersized player) was always going to be narrow, and he has already experienced the joys and sorrows of a 5 game trial in the hockey hotbed of Wheeling WV. Sometimes that's all it takes to convince kids that their efforts are best spent off the ice ... and sometimes it drives them to learn from the experience, and push on to the next on-ice opportunity. Whatever he does, I wish Matias nothing but the best.

Those are good points Chuck; kind of like last year when Smith and Quast got a brief stint with the Monarchs (think Quast lasted longer than Smith and Quast spent the winter playing hockey in Scotland) Kevin Goumas has been in Sweden this winter and his team Mori IK (think that's what it is) just won their league allowing them to move up to a Premier league (if I have that right) He's the second leading scorer for them; he's been in and out of the AHL and the Coast now here. Not sure of his plans for next season. Today am watching UML's CJ Smith playing in his NHL debut with the Sabres. So it's interesting to see how these players pan out, find their way, or leave hockey all together. I guess as long as they are playing, and happy.

Just read on twitter (not related one bit) that Michigan's Red B could be back for one more year...but it does apply I guess to our saga. Looking forward to the FF this week! Go 'Crimson!!

ps speaking of sagas just read Mike Vech just got signed by the Flyers; joins his teammate from the '14 NC team Ghost. (why didn't WE get Phil DeSimone's brother Nick by the way?)

[Dan]

Speaking of Cleland has he been picked up by another team yet?

If I'm Cleland - I got my taste of professional hockey (and played adequately if not spectacularly) and I'm heading back to Durham to wrap up my degree. Meanwhile, my agent is on the phone to land me a Coast deal (or preferably a higher paying and much more enjoyable Euro deal) for next season...

He can make better (very good - relative to the majority of his fellow graduating seniors) money in Europe and the experience will be worth a whole lot more. NHL is a real longshot for him - I'd hope he can make the best money he can, enjoy and extend his career and see the world before it all winds down...

TK is close enough he owes it to himself to grind in the AHL and push for an NHL opportunity for at least 2-3 years. Hopefully it works out. If it doesn't he'll be able to fall back on being a star on the big ice, in a top European league, playing for really good money, before he's done...

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

If I'm Cleland - I got my taste of professional hockey (and played adequately if not spectacularly) and I'm heading back to Durham to wrap up my degree. Meanwhile, my agent is on the phone to land me a Coast deal (or preferably a higher paying and much more enjoyable Euro deal) for next season...

He can make better (very good - relative to the majority of his fellow graduating seniors) money in Europe and the experience will be worth a whole lot more. NHL is a real longshot for him - I'd hope he can make the best money he can, enjoy and extend his career and see the world before it all winds down...

TK is close enough he owes it to himself to grind in the AHL and push for an NHL opportunity for at least 2-3 years. Hopefully it works out. If it doesn't he'll be able to fall back on being a star on the big ice, in a top European league, playing for really good money, before he's done...

Yeah; he will no doubt play next year and Europe does sound like a good deal $$ not to mention as you say, the experience of it all. So Dan, you pulling for your Pios in the FF? They are the favorites no doubt? Looking forward to the college hockey finale this week! Our hockey banquet is 3 weeks away looking forward to see who pulls the 'C' jersey over their head too..

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

If I'm Cleland - I got my taste of professional hockey (and played adequately if not spectacularly) and I'm heading back to Durham to wrap up my degree. Meanwhile, my agent is on the phone to land me a Coast deal (or preferably a higher paying and much more enjoyable Euro deal) for next season...

He can make better (very good - relative to the majority of his fellow graduating seniors) money in Europe and the experience will be worth a whole lot more. NHL is a real longshot for him - I'd hope he can make the best money he can, enjoy and extend his career and see the world before it all winds down...

TK is close enough he owes it to himself to grind in the AHL and push for an NHL opportunity for at least 2-3 years. Hopefully it works out. If it doesn't he'll be able to fall back on being a star on the big ice, in a top European league, playing for really good money, before he's done...

Can't disagree with any of that. Regarding Kelleher ... what a shame he didn't have even close to average size, he could still catch a break and fit in somewhere just right, but his chances are so much narrower just because of size alone. Only so many organizations willing to even give you a chance, and those who are willing won't be overly patient. See Haydar, Darren as someone who was a terrific D-1 player (and bigger than Kelleher), got some looks at the NHL level, but short ones that simply didn't pay off. 23 games under the likes of Barry Trotz, Bob Hartley, Don Waddell and Joe Sacco. Defense-first guys, or guys on short leashes who couldn't risk giving DH an extended run.

And it's frightening to consider that a potential future HOF level player like Martin St. Louis (still the best D-1 player I've seen in my lifetime - and that includes Paul Kariya) had basically used up the patience of Brian Sutter and the Calgary organization when he had to start from scratch with the then-beyond-pathetic Tampa Bay Lightning almost five (5) years after his UVM career finished up to finally make his NHL breakthrough. I'm not saying that Kelleher is going to be the next MSL, but you do have to wonder at times how many MSL's never quite made it because they just didn't get their break. It can be a very fickle business.

[Snively65]

Can't disagree with any of that. Regarding Kelleher ... what a shame he didn't have even close to average size, he could still catch a break and fit in somewhere just right, but his chances are so much narrower just because of size alone. Only so many organizations willing to even give you a chance, and those who are willing won't be overly patient. See Haydar, Darren as someone who was a terrific D-1 player (and bigger than Kelleher), got some looks at the NHL level, but short ones that simply didn't pay off. 23 games under the likes of Barry Trotz, Bob Hartley, Don Waddell and Joe Sacco. Defense-first guys, or guys on short leashes who couldn't risk giving DH an extended run.

And it's frightening to consider that a potential future HOF level player like Martin St. Louis (still the best D-1 player I've seen in my lifetime - and that includes Paul Kariya) had basically used up the patience of Brian Sutter and the Calgary organization when he had to start from scratch with the then-beyond-pathetic Tampa Bay Lightning almost five (5) years after his UVM career finished up to finally make his NHL breakthrough. I'm not saying that Kelleher is going to be the next MSL, but you do have to wonder at times how many MSL's never quite made it because they just didn't get their break. It can be a very fickle business.

And, Darren Haydar's Hobey winner center man Jason Krog also, another inch taller. But, those two had fine careers in the AHL, with several years together on the Chicago Wolves, before playing their last three and five years respectively in Europe. Another less than average height UNH alum, Eric Boguniecki, carved out a nice post-UNH career with even a couple fine NHL seasons. One could do far worse.

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Another one bites the dust!

White/BC
Keller/BU
JFK/BU
Walman/Prov
Thompson/UCONN
Smith/UML

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Another one bites the dust!

White/BC
Keller/BU
McAvoy/BU
JFK/BU
Walman/Prov
Thompson/UCONN
Smith/UML

Forgot McAvoy….willing to bet that Greenway leaves BU too.

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Forgot McAvoy….willing to bet that Greenway leaves BU too.

Thing is...while these are all great players that surely will be missed...what do they have coming in? Seems like a team like BU has a revolving door of talent...yes?
Imagine if we lost 3-5 players a year right now..heck, we'd have to cancel the season! It's a 'tough problem' to have (superstar recruits) but in all seriousness; it has its drawbacks too (am trying to think of some )

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Thing is...while these are all great players that surely will be missed...what do they have coming in? Seems like a team like BU has a revolving door of talent...yes?
Imagine if we lost 3-5 players a year right now..heck, we'd have to cancel the season! It's a 'tough problem' to have (superstar recruits) but in all seriousness; it has its drawbacks too (am trying to think of some )

Are the Terriers in the Frozen Four?

[JB]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

That was BU's "problem" this year. Crazy talented bunch of individuals. They just did not consistently play as a team.

I think they were the most talented group I saw all year. Not the best TEAM.

[HockeyRef]

That was BU's "problem" this year. Crazy talented bunch of individuals. They just did not consistently play as a team.

I think they were the most talented group I saw all year. Not the best TEAM.

Well exactly and those thoughts have been echoed over at their board. It's going to be the same for any team who has great players;we have seen it obviously to a lesser degree but for us it's more of a travesty than an inconvenience (if I can use that term) since it's not like we have replaced the talent per se which is my main point. Hopefully that is changing.

And no Snively65 even with all of that talent BU isn't going to the FF but at least they competed for it. I'm sure they will be right back at it next season although I understand they will once again field a young team. Now if Greenway goes that presents abit of an interesting scenario they could be like BC this season in recovery mode. Read a tweet today where David Quinn said his toughest competition was Jerry York but now it's the Bruins! 😉

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Forgot McAvoy….willing to bet that Greenway leaves BU too.

Yeah. Read on the BU thread some are expecting five total to go. Not sure if BU's model is the right way to go! In fact I'm sure it's not!