UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Since I hide behind a username, I'll respect his privacy. But he is well connected in the pro/College hockey world.

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Revisiting 2011 sure was the canary in the coalmine for this, complete with Borek having deferred (and lost), two Hobey Finalists, a disconnect between the top two coaches, and a disengaged Umile unwilling to ruin his vacation time.

It was a slow trainwreck, and good old Marty did nothing to try and wake the engineer, or replace him.

edit: and still has done nothing, until the engineer decides he's hit enough cars, demands to appoint his own novice engineer, and insists the junior engineer can't drive the train until he's learned from him how to drive drunk.

Listen, I'm on board with the content and commentary here ... but the imagery of this post is next level stuff. Bravo!

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Since I hide behind a username, I'll respect his privacy. But he is well connected in the pro/College hockey world.

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I'm not sure he's either at this point. 29 assists over three seasons doesn't exactly scream "playmaker" to me. UNH had 3 players who had more than 29 assists this season alone (sadly, two have used up their eligibility). I really don't want to pick on the kid, but as I've said before, he had the backing of some folks whose opinions I respect, and I think he has underachieved in his UNH career to date. Maybe he will be the last "senior breakout surprise" player of the Umile era (see Block, Thrush, Correale, etc.) this coming season? I hope so.

Here's the thing with Eiserman - he is an elite role player. That's why he made the US NTDP team. That's why he was recruited to UNH. Not because he was supposed to be a high-scoring player, but because he was an elite skater and third-line checking option with scoring ability. He has not had the supporting cast around him to allow him to excel in his role. He would have been excellent on past UNH teams as a central contributor to FF runs. On current teams, that lack scoring ability, depth at forward and proper (like-minded) line-mates Eiserman hasn't had the career many expected. Its not so much on him as it is the situation. Think extravagantly rich man's Greg Collins...

Its unfortunate for Shane, because he hustles his tail off and works hard to make things happen. He came to UNH as a life-long fan and attendee of UNH hockey games. I wish he had been able to play on better teams where fans would be more appreciative of the specific skill-set he brought to the table (instead of a career that should have made him a fan favorite, he's viewed as a slight underachiever because UNH has not been able to attract players to fill the scoring roles with enough depth). And where he could have better showcased his abilities in an effort to indicate what role he could play at the NHL level. Hopefully, he can still impress enough to get a shot...

I also think he is good enough offensively, that if given the chance in Correale's or Salvaggio's shoes that his point totals would be dramatically improved. Unfortunately, he's never been given such an opportunity.

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Dan
I think you are right that it is a queston of cost. I think Conger's production would be about the same as MacAdams, a good third line guy, and possibly second line his junior/senior years, but also a clear step up from some of the fourth line guys that Borek left us as recruits. He is coming back from a knee injury last year, and has picked it up in past month. He's not throwing away month like legacy of pro player kids on the roster, if they are receiving money.

So, for next year they have enough depth, and the year thereafter they have unfilled spots. With Souza finding a good kid who was underrecruited (Maass), I'm inclined to give him the same chance as he fills those two or three forward spots for 2018, though Conger is a close call.

1.Blackburn
2.Crookshank
3.Grasso
4.Kelleher
5.Vela
6.MacAdams
7.Nazarian
8.Fregona
9.Van Riemsdyk
10.C.Miller
11.Esposito
12.Cipollone
13.Cefalu
14.Sacco

Conger certainly fits anywhere from 6-10 and would immediately improve the forward line-up by bumping some of the non-DI caliber players. If they can get him for a good price, I'd love him on next years team. I'd expect he's a better offensive contributor than MacAdams, though maybe not as well rounded. Im not sure he has the potential upside of Nazarian or Fregona. Id just hate to see them spend their extra scholarship money on average fill-ins and then miss their chance on the high-end kids that are needed to full turn this ship around...

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Here's the thing with Eiserman - he is an elite role player. That's why he made the US NTDP team. That's why he was recruited to UNH. Not because he was supposed to be a high-scoring player, but because he was an elite skater and third-line checking option with scoring ability. He has not had the supporting cast around him to allow him to excel in his role. He would have been excellent on past UNH teams as a central contributor to FF runs. On current teams, that lack scoring ability, depth at forward and proper (like-minded) line-mates Eiserman hasn't had the career many expected. Its not so much on him as it is the situation. Think extravagantly rich man's Greg Collins...

Its unfortunate for Shane, because he hustles his tail off and works hard to make things happen. He came to UNH as a life-long fan and attendee of UNH hockey games. I wish he had been able to play on better teams where fans would be more appreciative of the specific skill-set he brought to the table (instead of a career that should have made him a fan favorite, he's viewed as a slight underachiever because UNH has not been able to attract players to fill the scoring roles with enough depth). And where he could have better showcased his abilities in an effort to indicate what role he could play at the NHL level. Hopefully, he can still impress enough to get a shot...

I also think he is good enough offensively, that if given the chance in Correale's or Salvaggio's shoes that his point totals would be dramatically improved. Unfortunately, he's never been given such an opportunity.

Interesting. Sounds like he is a "luxury" this program (sadly) currently can't optimize. Might have turned out quite differently if certain players weren't driven away, decommitted and/or left early of their own accord.

But since he's a life-long UNH fan AND soon to be a four year player, that makes him A-OK in my book.

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Exactly, Chuck. For example - I thought he was great late in his FR season while playing with Foegel. Imagine if your top-nine this season were...

Salvaggio - McNicholas - Kelleher
Eiserman - Healthy Vela - Foegele
BVR - Blackburn - Grasso

The departure of one forward and the health (lack thereof) of a second really hurt UNH in all phases of forward play, Eiserman in particular...

---

Once again diving further into the WHAT IF world...

Salvaggio - McNicholas - Kelleher
Vecchione - Poturalski - Foegele
Eiserman - Nazarian - Vela
BVR - Blackburn - Grasso
Fregona

If Borek and Umile had not fumbled away talent (Foegele, Vecchione) or built enough depth to handle an early departure - we might have something here. Poturalski or not, this is a FF contending offense (talented and deep - and perhaps AP stays if he comes a year earlier, when he should have** - and has this group to return to as a SR). But, I'll say it again, getting the talent all the way to campus and utilizing them correctly is more important than just getting a verbal...

** Lets not lose sight of the fact that despite blowing it with Laleggia and Vecchione (among others), UNH has continued to defer its best forward recruits regularly. They did it to Downing, Poturalski and Blackburn for no particular reason other than lesser forwards already on the roster. Imagine where UNH would be if those three had bolted to other schools. Please, fair warning - no one come back with after the fact quotes about how those three were happy or chose to stay in juniors. UNH was fortunate those three accepted the decision, saw the upside and made the best of it, instead of going somewhere else...

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

But, by end of the conference tourneys, TyK, ZAR, and Vecchione had the same number of points, with Vecchione's linemate Foo just 1 point behind (Foo just went pro after junior year). I realize that the Hobey is based on more than points, and I think that you are spot on that TyK not having the respect of his teammates to make him captain probably hurt his Hobey candidacy in the end. But, what if TyK had Pots on his line this past season, like Vecchione had Foo; 10 to 20 more points for TyK? Or, maybe Pots would have been a top Hobey candidate, too.

Anyway, I think that this thread needs a "BU-together"-type poster to liven things a bit; is there an "UNH-together" poster out there?

From what I understand, TyK wanted nothing to do with being Captain....and I don't think that hurt his chances necessarily. Am thinking it was the strength of the team around him, and who knows; maybe reading to kids isn't enough to push the committee. He deserved the hat trick honors, and I'm disappointed for him. UNH hockey has sat on its hands and that, is what cost him as Dan pointed out. I found it very interesting that Cleland was rarely the voice of the team in the paper, speaking of what we saw from the team this season in the news accounts.

I don't know why, or how that comes about, but if C-H-C had not done his "Captains" weekly interview, we would have never/hardly heard what he had to say about the team. The voice of the 'Cats, esp. at the end, seemed to by Dylan Chanter. Of course there isn't one of us who knows exactly what's going on in that locker room, or the practice ice, but I'm thinking there needs to be much more in the way of team culture (glad we are going to figure that out that next year is the year to finally create it???? ) that is EVIDENT to the fans. And ps I know Cleland did an excellent job and was a great choice.

Seems 'willy nilly' at times and that's indicative in the inconsistent play of the 'Cats. I believe this more than their skill level, is what they need to rise up to the next level. Don't like being number 10? Then why did we end up number 10....ho hum. I hope whomever gets chosen as Captain (and please, go with 2 A's) they do indeed decide on the direction they want to be at and make it happen, WEIT. That's why I prefer Eiserman, despite his injury status which I know is a liability. I enjoyed reading Dan's post about him; it was spot on. I finally get it about him...(takes me awhile sigh) I whined incessantly that 'he's not scoring enough goals for a draft pick but now...I know better. He's extremely valuable; when he returned you could see it. Sometimes I wonder how we got through Merrimack without him...

And, I don't think we need to insult each other on this forum but hey, free country. (in reference to Snively65's comment about BUtogether)

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

And, I don't think we need to insult each other on this forum but hey, free country.

Did I miss something? It's practically sing-along-by-the-campfire to Kumbaya at this point ...

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Did I miss something? It's practically sing-along-by-the-campfire to Kumbaya at this point ...

If you've been reading the BU board, Snively65 would like us to rumble abit more...at least, that's how I interpret his post!
I should have clarified my comment!

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Exactly, Chuck. For example - I thought he was great late in his FR season while playing with Foegel. Imagine if your top-nine this season were...

Salvaggio - McNicholas - Kelleher
Eiserman - Healthy Vela - Foegele
BVR - Blackburn - Grasso

The departure of one forward and the health (lack thereof) of a second really hurt UNH in all phases of forward play, Eiserman in particular...

---

Once again diving further into the WHAT IF world...

Salvaggio - McNicholas - Kelleher
Vecchione - Poturalski - Foegele
Eiserman - Nazarian - Vela
BVR - Blackburn - Grasso
Fregona

If Borek and Umile had not fumbled away talent (Foegele, Vecchione) or built enough depth to handle an early departure - we might have something here. Poturalski or not, this is a FF contending offense (talented and deep - and perhaps AP stays if he comes a year earlier, when he should have** - and has this group to return to as a SR). But, I'll say it again, getting the talent all the way to campus and utilizing them correctly is more important than just getting a verbal...

** Lets not lose sight of the fact that despite blowing it with Laleggia and Vecchione (among others), UNH has continued to defer its best forward recruits regularly. They did it to Downing, Poturalski and Blackburn for no particular reason other than lesser forwards already on the roster. Imagine where UNH would be if those three had bolted to other schools. Please, fair warning - no one come back with after the fact quotes about how those three were happy or chose to stay in juniors. UNH was fortunate those three accepted the decision, saw the upside and made the best of it, instead of going somewhere else...

And with Pots, don't forget how he broke his leg in jr's which set him back a bit even further. I hope these lessons were learned for the future??? And oh Dan...your 'What if" line up...I just mentioned to someone today what 'might have been' if TvR had stayed with Pesce for his Sr. year and if our goal tending situation had been different 14-15 season...such is hindsight.

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Exactly, Chuck. For example - I thought he was great late in his FR season while playing with Foegel. Imagine if your top-nine this season were...

Salvaggio - McNicholas - Kelleher
Eiserman - Healthy Vela - Foegele
BVR - Blackburn - Grasso

The departure of one forward and the health (lack thereof) of a second really hurt UNH in all phases of forward play, Eiserman in particular...

---

Once again diving further into the WHAT IF world...

Salvaggio - McNicholas - Kelleher
Vecchione - Poturalski - Foegele
Eiserman - Nazarian - Vela
BVR - Blackburn - Grasso
Fregona

If Borek and Umile had not fumbled away talent (Foegele, Vecchione) or built enough depth to handle an early departure - we might have something here. Poturalski or not, this is a FF contending offense (talented and deep - and perhaps AP stays if he comes a year earlier, when he should have** - and has this group to return to as a SR). But, I'll say it again, getting the talent all the way to campus and utilizing them correctly is more important than just getting a verbal...

** Lets not lose sight of the fact that despite blowing it with Laleggia and Vecchione (among others), UNH has continued to defer its best forward recruits regularly. They did it to Downing, Poturalski and Blackburn for no particular reason other than lesser forwards already on the roster. Imagine where UNH would be if those three had bolted to other schools. Please, fair warning - no one come back with after the fact quotes about how those three were happy or chose to stay in juniors. UNH was fortunate those three accepted the decision, saw the upside and made the best of it, instead of going somewhere else...

Pure fact is that UNH doenst have the luxury of telling top recruits to wait another year anymore...its to risky to lose the recruit and top recruits willing to come to UNH arent exactly falling over each other to come here right now. If you have to take a kid a year early they have to suck it up and take him.

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Pure fact is that UNH doenst have the luxury of telling top recruits to wait another year anymore...its to risky to lose the recruit and top recruits willing to come to UNH arent exactly falling over each other to come here right now. If you have to take a kid a year early they have to suck it up and take him.

Are we getting Maass and Gildon earlier than say, we normally would...not to mention the fact we desperately need them! Yep..couldn't afford it then, and can't afford it now!

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Are we getting Maass and Gildon earlier than say, we normally would...not to mention the fact we desperately need them! Yep..couldn't afford it then, and can't afford it now!

Essentially, yes - they will be true freshman at UNH. Gildon was always going to go to college straight out of the USNTDP. Maass is likely an example of a young player they picked up because they were willing to take him right out of his SR year of high school. So that is a good sign.

It isn't untrue to say that UNH's history of deferrals and line-up decisions based on seniority have hurt UNH in ways beyond losing some of those commitments. It also made recruiting top talent more difficult. Prospects want to go to schools where they best players are brought in on schedule and given PT based on performance. Public perception and negative recruiting indicated UNH was not that school. Maass is hopefully an indication that this perception/practice is going away and UNH should benefit if true...

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Essentially, yes - they will be true freshman at UNH. Gildon was always going to go to college straight out of the USNTDP. Maass is likely an example of a young player they picked up because they were willing to take him right out of his SR year of high school. So that is a good sign.

It isn't untrue to say that UNH's history of deferrals and line-up decisions based on seniority have hurt UNH in ways beyond losing some of those commitments. It also made recruiting top talent more difficult. Prospects want to go to schools where they best players are brought in on schedule and given PT based on performance. Public perception and negative recruiting indicated UNH was not that school. Maass is hopefully an indication that this perception/practice is going away and UNH should benefit if true...

Totally agree. Top end players dont want to play a year or two of juniors after high school anymore. They want to go and play immediately in college. Look at BU's roster and a lot of those kids came right in (Patrick Harper, etc.). In order to get the high end recruit you have to be flexible when they enter the school - of course it would be ideal for them to play two years of juniors and come in older and more mature but the top level kids arent doing that anymore and UNH needs them more than ever. They are looking to come in as true freshman and UNH has to say - "Yep, come in whenever you want" at this point. They have to do whatever it takes. If another school says they want them to play a year or two or juniors and UNH says come right in then thats advantage UNH.