UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

[SteveS.]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Honestly, I'm not sure this is a fair thing to say.

Hey Nick, hope all is well! Email me (if you still have it) we can talk hockey.

[SteveS.]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Oh for you old UNH fans like Greg and C-H-C, Snivley and Chuck I found a website with old pictures of UNH hockey going back to 1979, most have those annoying copyright stamps but many do not let me know and I'll look up the url.

[Greg Ambrose]

Now Borek is with a team that won a national championship the season before he joined the program...so we will see his abilities now at PC.

Not,going to win it this year. His track record is riding the wave of successful programs and, over time, drag them down. The miserable rosters UNH has fielded these last few years were Borek creations.

[Greg Ambrose]

This! Exactly!! I think that you and E.J. are the only ones here who get it. I never liked DU's on-ice coaching, from his irritating and usually poorly timed whistles for line changes, to his inability to make adjustments between periods when getting out-coached by those with inferior talented players, to allowing his players to sit back on leads back in the day. This poor coaching during regular season after regular season anways caught up with him in the post-season, such as his holding one of his three forwards back the entire NC game in Buffalo, to letting the RIT Tigers take over the regionals game in Albany that should have been an automatic trip to the FF after his team dispatched Cornell. I could go on and on and on, but typing on iPhone is too big a pain.

For some reason Watcher has always been an apologist for Kullen. The fact is that he was a terrible recruiter and ran the program into the ground in the mid-80's. Kullen kept his job only after he agreed to get new assistants. Sean Coady and Wayne Wilson recruited most of those kids and, at the same time, encouraged some of Kullen's recruits to leave. Bob Kullen was under a tremendous amount of pressure after the 1987 season, the reason why wholesale changes were made. Of course Kullen suffered his heart issues and, for the next two years, his focus was on his health, not the future of the program.

The thing that some aren't willing to admit is that Umile was never an Uber recruiter. He relied on others to recruit the players, then he would coach them up,when they got to Durham. This formula worked for the better part of 20 years until it no longer did. In the end, Umile's fault? Absolutely. But let's not diminish what this guy did. Some of you are making Adam Wodon's case.

[e.cat]

Pragmatic as usual.

Ha! You gobbled that up before I edited it out. Well played my friend!

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Wow...this review should be interesting..

[Dan]

For some reason Watcher has always been an apologist for Kullen. The fact is that he was a terrible recruiter and ran the program into the ground in the mid-80's. Kullen kept his job only after he agreed to get new assistants. Sean Coady and Wayne Wilson recruited most of those kids and, at the same time, encouraged some of Kullen's recruits to leave. Bob Kullen was under a tremendous amount of pressure after the 1987 season, the reason why wholesale changes were made. Of course Kullen suffered his heart issues and, for the next two years, his focus was on his health, not the future of the program.

The thing that some aren't willing to admit is that Umile was never an Uber recruiter. He relied on others to recruit the players, then he would coach them up,when they got to Durham. This formula worked for the better part of 20 years until it no longer did. In the end, Umile's fault? Absolutely. But let's not diminish what this guy did. Some of you are making Adam Wodon's case.

Wodon's argument was to misrepresent Umile's recent tenure by tying it to accomplishments from 7-10 years ago. His argument was not valid. Period.

I'm not sure who is arguing that Umile was ever a good recruiter. I think it's been made clear that he never was a great recruiter, nor did he ever seem to want to be involved in that side of the job. That's fine when you have a McCloskey and not so much when you don't.

His failure was making a suspect hire to fill McCloskey's shoes and then doing absolutely nothing when it became clear Borek was losing his grip on recruiting. That's not only his fault, it's inexcusable.

This is why it's silly to attempt to absolve Umile of the program's struggles. Not that you have, Greg. But some have. He's the HEAD COACH. It's his job to either get it done or hire and empower assistants who can. If he doesn't do either of those it's on him...

Kullen was only the HC from 86-90, including his illness absences. I knew him and liked him very much (my mom worked with his wife) but I was 5-9 years old then, so I can't speak to his ability to recruit. But if you're correct, kudos to him (and early in his career Umile) for recognizing his shortcomings and addressing them. I don't see it as a strike against him that coaches he hired, and gave responsibility to, did a good job. Again, Umile's issue is his second guy slowly became less and less successful. It was clear to many and Umile just sat on his hands. There is plenty of blame, but that one mistake is the key to UNH's fall from grace. And it's all on the HC...

[chickod]

Wow...this review should be interesting..

Glad you spent the money? Fabulous game, huh?

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

So don't lose hope UNH faithful. Tonight proves that "talent" only goes so far. You have to actually want to WIN the game to be successful. Give me players who care about each other and bust their behinds any day instead of worrying about their pro careers.

[Greg Ambrose]

Wodon's argument was to misrepresent Umile's recent tenure by tying it to accomplishments from 7-10 years ago. His argument was not valid. Period.

I'm not sure who is arguing that Umile was ever a good recruiter. I think it's been made clear that he never was a great recruiter, nor did he ever seem to want to be involved in that side of the job. That's fine when you have a McCloskey and not so much when you don't.

His failure was making a suspect hire to fill McCloskey's shoes and then doing absolutely nothing when it became clear Borek was losing his grip on recruiting. That's not only his fault, it's inexcusable.

This is why it's silly to attempt to absolve Umile of the program's struggles. Not that you have, Greg. But some have. He's the HEAD COACH. It's his job to either get it done or hire and empower assistants who can. If he doesn't do either of those it's on him...

Kullen was only the HC from 86-90, including his illness absences. I knew him and liked him very much (my mom worked with his wife) but I was 5-9 years old then, so I can't speak to his ability to recruit. But if you're correct, kudos to him (and early in his career Umile) for recognizing his shortcomings and addressing them. I don't see it as a strike against him that coaches he hired, and gave responsibility to, did a good job. Again, Umile's issue is his second guy slowly became less and less successful. It was clear to many and Umile just sat on his hands. There is plenty of blame, but that one mistake is the key to UNH's fall from grace. And it's all on the HC...

I knew Bob as well and considered him to be a friend. But he had his shortcomings which, unfortunately, took others to help him self-discover. I'd say the difference between his tenure and Umile's, besides being much shorter, is that Bob was on a deserved short leash the entire time he coached. Umile got a much longer leash because of his accomplishments and by the time it was obvious that some reining in was required, those who could have done it were asleep at the switch. That's on Marty.

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

For some reason Watcher has always been an apologist for Kullen. The fact is that he was a terrible recruiter and ran the program into the ground in the mid-80's. Kullen kept his job only after he agreed to get new assistants. Sean Coady and Wayne Wilson recruited most of those kids and, at the same time, encouraged some of Kullen's recruits to leave. Bob Kullen was under a tremendous amount of pressure after the 1987 season, the reason why wholesale changes were made. Of course Kullen suffered his heart issues and, for the next two years, his focus was on his health, not the future of the program.

I don't think I need to "apologize" for Kullen. I do have admiration for him, mostly on the facts. Your anecdote is off. He didn't keep his job only after hiring Coady: he hired Coady when he got the job, so Coady was not forced on him as a condition for keeping his job. Assuming you put recruiting on him, not Holt's longtime assistant Dave O'Connor, there are no complaints about 1977-84 period, where UNH made the NCAAs as late as 83. Even 83, with Richmond, Douris and Mike Golden was good, though Douris left after 2, and Golden flunked out. 84 got Steve Leach and Rossetti, big gets, again with Leach leaving after 2 years. But the depth behind them really dropped off, and the recruited defensemen were awful. 85 and 86 were beyond horrible, perhaps the familiar "hard to recruit for an aged head coach."

Once he and Coady took over, being the new era of UNH hockey was very appealing to recruits. That first class of 87 was killer and got the defense righted with Dean, McIntyre and Plavsic (and even better because Amodeo would have been in 87, but couldn't get past admissions). I find it hard to believe the 1987 retirement of O'Connor and the hiring of Wilson to replace him were forced on him). He, Coady and Wilson followed with another outstanding 88 class (Mitrovic joined Amodeo, Morrow).

Not only are the names impressive, but the team went from 8 wins, to 7 during the season Kullen didn't coach, to 12, 17 and 22 wins (the first under Umile). This clearly shows the team was on a tremendous rebuild under Kullen, with his first two recruiting classes getting 22 and 22 win seasons at the end of their 4 years.

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Shaun, if you're reading this, well said!

March 16 — To the Editor:

This letter is in response to, "Umile: I want to finish the right way," Portsmouth Herald 3/16/17. Umile is a great guy and the fans appreciate his years coaching UNH men's hockey. Umile had many wins over his career, yet we are overdue for a leadership change. UNH has not been regular season champions since 2010, has not won Hockey East or been in the Frozen Four since 2003 and has never won a national title. From all the empty seats and lack of excitement at the Whittemore Center, it is obvious that support and revenue associated with the program has eroded. Fans could only hope that Umile would have retired or UNH athletics would have done the right thing.

Other universities, professional sports teams and private businesses respectfully replace leadership to bring in new energy and fresh ideas. It seems that folks at UNH have placed their personal relationships before what is best for the program. Whoever negotiated Umile's contract extension, paying him $744,000.00 for his last three years, without a performance clause or enforcing it, should be replaced as well. It is the kind of cronyism that plagues UNH, reason why folks lose respect and are apprehensive to donate to the school. To pay Umile another $248,000.00 next year after the poor results of the last two seasons is not what is best for the school, program, team and fans. It also sets a really bad precedent. Umile had his time and we are thankful for his contributions. Nonetheless, it is disappointing that we have to wait another year with an empty arena before allowing Souza to take the reins and build his team.

Shawn Joyce

Rye

http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/2...dership-change

UNH hockey, when its time to negotiate Dick's contract its big business, and a national program. When it comes to accountability, its a small, tight family run community.

[HockeyRef]

So don't lose hope UNH faithful. Tonight proves that "talent" only goes so far. You have to actually want to WIN the game to be successful. Give me players who care about each other and bust their behinds any day instead of worrying about their pro careers.

That "talent" almost won the game for them in the waning moments but I hear what you are saying!! BU looked disjointed at times and that PP 😳

We were sitting in the corner when it all imploded at the end...am amazed there are no Dq's but gee after all it IS tourney time! (insert eye roll) Anyway going to be a chippy affair to be sure tonight...

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Shaun, if you're reading this, well said!

March 16 — To the Editor:

This letter is in response to, "Umile: I want to finish the right way," Portsmouth Herald 3/16/17. Umile is a great guy and the fans appreciate his years coaching UNH men's hockey. Umile had many wins over his career, yet we are overdue for a leadership change. UNH has not been regular season champions since 2010, has not won Hockey East or been in the Frozen Four since 2003 and has never won a national title. From all the empty seats and lack of excitement at the Whittemore Center, it is obvious that support and revenue associated with the program has eroded. Fans could only hope that Umile would have retired or UNH athletics would have done the right thing.

Other universities, professional sports teams and private businesses respectfully replace leadership to bring in new energy and fresh ideas. It seems that folks at UNH have placed their personal relationships before what is best for the program. Whoever negotiated Umile's contract extension, paying him $744,000.00 for his last three years, without a performance clause or enforcing it, should be replaced as well. It is the kind of cronyism that plagues UNH, reason why folks lose respect and are apprehensive to donate to the school. To pay Umile another $248,000.00 next year after the poor results of the last two seasons is not what is best for the school, program, team and fans. It also sets a really bad precedent. Umile had his time and we are thankful for his contributions. Nonetheless, it is disappointing that we have to wait another year with an empty arena before allowing Souza to take the reins and build his team.

Shawn Joyce

Rye

http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/2...dership-change

UNH hockey, when its time to negotiate Dick's contract its big business, and a national program. When it comes to accountability, its a small, tight family run community.

Couldn't agree with both of you more.

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

That "talent" almost won the game for them in the waning moments but I hear what you are saying!!

The thing is, when people speak about "talent" they are usually referring to "physical" talent. But DESIRE is also part of talent. How many times have we heard "Jeez, that guy has so much ability but he dogs it all the time?" The talent is useless if it isn't utilized (and I'm not going to drag out the Herb Brooks quote). Part of the coach's responsibility is to draw out and motivate that talent.

Let me be clear...I'm not upset that BU lost. When we scored the 2nd goal, the guy two seats over from me (it was a partially empty row - like most of the place last night - disappointing but that's another issue for another time) looked at me incredulously because I was just sitting there emotionless. So I went over and told him, "The reason I'm not getting excited is because they don't give a chit for 55 minutes and now all of a sudden then decide to play." THAT'S why I'm upset. If they had played the first 55 minutes like they played the last 5, I'm sorry but they would have blown BC out of the building. (yes, Woll was great but BU still missed about five open nets when he was down and out and they either fanned, fiddled around or didn't know what to do - one in particular [not to single him out] when Krys was moving in from the left point and just HELD the puck for an eternity, and he had an open shooting lane, before finally passing to the other point - so they got nothing out of it - you can't always make the perfect play)

So if the coach can't get them to do that, what good is all the "talent?" And, on a collateral note, how does this apply to you? If I'm a UNH player and I look behind the bench and see someone who (and remember how old these kids are) seems old, disengaged and emotionless, how would I respond to that?

This is why they don't play the games on paper. You can't just recruit players and roll them out there and expect to win. (no intended "veiled" comment about ANYBODY'S recruiting here) There are many components that go into building a winner. That's why only ONE team wins in the end. It's not easy to do. But when you consistently watch performances like last night (trust me, I can recall ONE game this year where this team played hard for TWO periods - NONE for three), it makes one (pick the word) "angry," "disgusted," "exasperated."