UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

UNH needs to look at Lowell and understand if Lowell can compete in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 & 2017 there is no reason UNH can't be competing at a very high level. That UNH has fallen so far is shameful. Lowell isn't chasing a pile of 1st round picks. They are not crazy for the most talented they are looking for the right players. If a 1st rounder that fits the system comes along sure they will take him in a blink. I just don't see Bazin going the BU route even if he could, it isn't the style he clearly wants. Yes Lowell started uber defensive (like paint drying) now they are big, fast, defensive, aggressive and scoring.

You got that right. Really was able to just pay attention to their game this weekend (without the UNH distraction) and really they just WANT to win. Not thrilled necessarily with how they get there on occasion but you can't fault them for their obvious work ethic and how they play with purpose and discipline. Lots of weapons on that team and they don't do it with flash; they do it with desire and ability. When teams talk about developing culture, that's what you see with them (and others).

Not trying to be a "hater" but I'm not certain I've heard that term culture (until recently when it was announced Coach U would continue another season) used in regards to UNH hockey in interviews, press releases. Now yes, pride and tradition are our obvious hall marks and those things are indeed noble and UNH hockey history is steeped in it. I hope that is something they do indeed work at (and I hope they do!) because it's a vital component to winning, and winning consistently. It takes a total, 100% buy in from the top all the way down.

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

And Hemingway

McCloskey's contacts told him that this player, a skilled forward named Colin Hemingway, had made up his mind and was going to attend the University of North Dakota.
"I'd been told by some of the coaches in the league that (Hemingway) had some special talent, but I'd also been told that he was pretty much signed, sealed and delivered to North Dakota," McCloskey explained. "I went out to see him practice and I remember a North Dakota assistant was in the stands that day. Colin's coach told me I was welcome to talk to Colin, but North Dakota was in the picture and a lot of schools were backing out (of the recruiting process)."
McCloskey never did talk to Hemingway that day. After practice the North Dakota assistant coach got to Hemingway in the locker room first and did what he could to keep him away from McCloskey.
"I waited and waited and waited," McCloskey explained. " I think his plan was to keep Colin there all night so I wouldn't have a chance to talk to him. I finally said, 'The heck with it,' and went out to the lobby, got on the pay phone and called Colin's mom to set up a visit at their house to talk with them.
"I thought he was a real elite prospect. He wouldn't win points for style in a figure skating contest because Colin has his own unorthodox skating style, but he's very quick — deceivingly quick. I just thought he was a really complete prospect. He had good size, good hands, the ability to score, the ability to pass."
UNH won that recruiting battle with North Dakota, and Hemingway is one of the main reasons the Wildcats have a chance to win their first national championship this season. UNH (30-6-3) will play Maine (25-10-7) in Thursday's NCAA semifinals. Michigan (28-10-5) will meet Minnesota (30-8-4) in Thursday's other semifinal.

So, apart from nearly every All-American, UNH has not recruited top players.

And if you read the narratives, they want to win, and go to a winning team. I don't know how Souza sells UNH, but it seems to focus on the "neat little family, good University" aspect, which is important, but also kids want to hear some bravado about how winning is important, and to quote Mike Souza's hero, "you're going to be tired of all the winning."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z3Yk99yrak

[JB]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Culture is an interesting word... Let's add style.

Pre 98-99 UNH's culture/style = **** the torpedoes full speed ahead. Lots of goals fun to watch, in trouble against a solid team ... See Michigan in national semi's

Post 99 until ? UNH's style stronger D and particularly goalies. Team D back checking. Transition offense.

Now??

Do they know what they want to be... What a good player looks like to them?

For a team that valued goalies Tirone is a miss his style to two all over the place and his glove hand might be getting worse.

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

You have the advantage over me I'm seeing him say these words, but it's one thing to say it. Everyone wants to win. Like Watcher, I have questions whether this is HIS sales pitch because of what I see him say on video and in print, as well as what recruits say about their commitments and what I hear from other sources...

When I start hearing media outlets, recruit nicks and UNH verbals expressing excitement about Souza's passion and determination and belief about turning UNH around immediately I'll start buying that his pitch matches what mine would be.

I'd imagine as a teacher and coach - you've notice that when kids buy in they'll start repeating things theyve heard that resonate with them. That's why I feel the recruit quotes are such valuable clues.

I shouldn't have said his approach 'needs' to be anything. It's what I would like to see. I have a strong opinion that approach would work tremendously well. Still, I am certain other pitches can work every bit as well.

From recruit quotes, it does seem that HIS pitch is more about connection, family, tradition, culture etc and believing these things will lead to winning and reaching team goals. That's fine. There are many ways to recruit. He needs to be himself and pitch his vision. It just needs to keep working at a Max Gildon level. Whether that means top-end prospects (like Gildon) or as JB says, the right kids who bring top-end production.

I couldnt agree more and by the sounds of it that pitch resonates with recruits. Lets face it right now UNH needs to up its recruiting and its tough finding top level recruits who have to pick UNH over BC/BU, etc. You need kids that want to play here and see the challenge of getting UNH back to a National Championship contender. Its easy to just say "yes" to BU and just be another guy on the wagon. It takes a special kid to want to put a stamp on a program - thats what UNH currently needs.

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Culture is an interesting word... Let's add style.

Pre 98-99 UNH's culture/style = **** the torpedoes full speed ahead. Lots of goals fun to watch, in trouble against a solid team ... See Michigan in national semi's

Post 99 until ? UNH's style stronger D and particularly goalies. Team D back checking. Transition offense.

Now??

Do they know what they want to be... What a good player looks like to them?

For a team that valued goalies Tirone is a miss his style to two all over the place and his glove hand might be getting worse.

I agree with you on Tirone. His style is very Tim Thomas like - he is really on or really off. I think UNH has seen this and addressed it by having Robinson (3rd round NHL draft pick) and then going out and land the best 02 goalie in Commesso to come in after Robinson. Building from the back end first is a proven method.

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

...how do you know that's not the message? I've heard MS say "UNH will win the National Championship" at a FOH meeting. If he's saying that (and I realize in front of a booster club you want to come off as positive as possible and I've got no truck with that) I imagine that is exactly what he's saying to recruits...that THEY can be part of this new era and make a difference right now. Of course his recruiting tells the tale of the tape...and I think (as you mentioned with Gildon and Commesso) we are starting to see that. I'd be very disappointed to think they (he and Stewie) aren't going after every big fish out there, and I'm under no illusion that every top skater they talk to is going to come to UNH. (Although I wouldn't mind that one bit of course!! ) Time will tell. I truly believe MS is chomping at the bit to get this resurgence going and I cannot wait to see it unfold.

Taken from UNH Blog:
Drew Commesso: I visited several area Hockey East schools and had other offers but I felt that UNH was the best fit for me. After visiting a few schools I figured out that I did not want to go to a school with an urban campus so that narrowed my search, and after visiting UNH I knew it was for me. I loved the campus and the coaching staff here was a huge reason I made the decision to come here. I wanted to go to a school that would contend for a national championship ...

Not a resurgence, not a over .500 season....not a Hockey east championship...A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP....that has to be coming from Souza and I love that. UNH isnt some second rate program - it is and should be a premier program and thats what the message has to be. The program has too much tradition and excellence to be where it is now. Better times are coming!

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

UNH isnt some second rate program

Tough to put them in the upper echelon of college hockey by any reasonable measure.

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Culture is an interesting word... Let's add style.

Pre 98-99 UNH's culture/style = **** the torpedoes full speed ahead. Lots of goals fun to watch, in trouble against a solid team ... See Michigan in national semi's

Post 99 until ? UNH's style stronger D and particularly goalies. Team D back checking. Transition offense.

Now??

Do they know what they want to be... What a good player looks like to them?

For a team that valued goalies Tirone is a miss his style to two all over the place and his glove hand might be getting worse.

I am surprised that you would dismiss the 1997-1998 team, our first to reach a FF since 1982. Besides having four high-scoring forwards on that team (Krog, Bekar, Nolan, and Mowers), the team had Jayme Filipowicz (31 points) on the blue line, and five other D-men (Bragnalo, Lind, Enders, O'Brien, and White) who were solid, along with a fine goalie in Sean Matile. Souza had 25 points that sophomore season also, and got the assist for Mowers' goal that beat BU 4-3 in OT, which sent UNH to the FF from the Northeast Regionals. UNH simply could not get anything by Marty Turco in that Semi's game, which is too bad, as a UNH-BC NC game that season would have been one for the ages, like the NC game the next year (BC had won the HEA regular season and tourney, IIRC).

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I am surprised that you would dismiss the 1997-1998 team, our first to reach a FF since 1982. Besides having four high-scoring forwards on that team (Krog, Bekar, Nolan, and Mowers), the team had Jayme Filipowicz (31 points) on the blue line, and five other D-men (Bragnalo, Lind, Enders, O'Brien, and White) who were solid, along with a fine goalie in Sean Matile. Souza had 25 points that sophomore season also, and got the assist for Mowers' goal that beat BU 4-3 in OT, which sent UNH to the FF from the Northeast Regionals. UNH simply could not get anything by Marty Turco in that Semi's game, which is too bad, as a UNH-BC NC game that season would have been one for the ages, like the NC game the next year (BC had won the HEA regular season and tourney, IIRC).

I was working in Boston at the time and was at that game (Fleet Center at the time) and sitting 10 rows behind Turco when (not sure, but it might have been Krog) came down the slot and fired one point blank that would have been in the net 99 times out of 100. Turco flashed his glove and made an insane save. After that it seemed as if UNH was just resigned that it wasn't going to be that day. They were visibly deflated. It was a shame because that was a great team.

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Tough to put them in the upper echelon of college hockey by any reasonable measure.

Very true of late. I was more speaking in terms of the history of the program in its entirety. The last few years they are not in the upper echelon thats for sure.

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I was more speaking in terms of the history of the program in its entirety.

Sam here.

[UNH1932]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I wish I hadn't deleted my post. I am not underestimating the defense, as I said I like Maass, and Gildon will be an upgrade. Full marks to Souza on getting those two, Gildon as a late free agent, and Maass, as an underrecognized kid blossoming his senior year.

I don't think I said MacAdams will be better than Kelleher. Just the opposite, though I have them on the third line to start the season. Clearly Kelleher's bona fides exceed those of MacAdams. Couple of points, though, Goumas was a full year and a half younger than Kelleher, so stats not comparable. Limoges would have been a nice late add, like Gildon, and a nice signal to the recruiting world that UNH was ramping up. I wonder if his announcement on the day Umile hung on was related. Probably not

I agree Watcher with Limoges but his home is much closer to Penn State and they are heading in the right direction. It would have been nice but we should not break the 30 players at time rule. BU and BC were not in heavily early back in the 90's and early 2000's for public school kids and yes Souza was great and was drafted but the focus of BC were for private school kids and BU waited as they thought they could get anyone whenever they wanted during that period. Gildon committed verbally a month or more ago. I am hoping Nazarian has his breakout this year and Blackburn might actually be on the first line this year.

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Sam here.

Well UNH has 22 NCAA appearances - that is top 10. That to me is upper eschelon.

[Dan]

Sam here.

Let's get real Sam. Everyone knows that BC, BU, DU, ND, MN, WI and MI are the programs considered a part of the majestic pantheon of college hockey. And personally, those fan bases are welcome to slap their backs sore with pride. Personally, I couldn't give a **** about being in that group. Providence isn't. Yale isn't. Union isn't. Quinipiac isn't. Who cares.

Watchers evidence clearly proves that for a long stretch of time UNH had no problem competing with those programs for top recruits. They can do it again. On the ice, head to head records would indicate that for a long stretch UNH had no problem going toe to toe with any of those teams. As far as an overall recruiting package UNH can offer a heck of an experience comparable to any of those programs.

Great campus, winning and prestigious history, more than fine academic programs, a great facility, a wonderful location, a passionate if slumbering fan base, top athletic billing on campus, a legitimate pathway to the NHL and much more...

The only thing missing has been someone who could paint the picture and sell it.

UNH made 15 NCAA tournaments, four FFs and won seven regular season titles in a 19 year span. With the right coach - perhaps and hopefully Souza - they can get back to competing on a national level annually. Whether that gets them in the 'club'? Who cares...

[UNH1932]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

You hit the nail on the head with Stafford and Hemingway. Haydar and Murray were big hits too. We have recruited some stars as you noted. Admissions took out some of our big hits over the past 6-8 years and we have had a pretty tough time. I know the Hemingway story quite well. We have had quite a few all-americans but for many they did not get their first choice and that was great for us in Kevin Regan's case as he killed BU during his time to show Parker his mistake in not signing him. There are many others in that era as well and we got very good players for sure but not the top kids in the country as a general rule. We find those kids that others do not know. Our Waterloo connection brought four stars in one year in the mid 2000's. None but Kessel was considered a sure thing but that is our best team in a long time.