UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

No, it's alternate. It's always been alternate. Or maybe it's the Adjutant Captain? And the rest of your examples are pretty foolish, too, especially those last two, Dick Umile is the Manager of the UNH hockey team? And that last one, you do understand that Canadians and Americans spell some words - centre/center - a little differently but they're the same word, right?

My point is there is bigger issues to fry then someone incorrectly using assistant vs alternate captain. Hockey team or hockey club?

[Ned Braden]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

My point is there is bigger issues to fry then someone incorrectly using assistant vs alternate captain. Hockey team or hockey club?

Noted. I'll only fry important issues from now on.

[Dan]

No, it's alternate. It's always been alternate. Or maybe it's the Adjutant Captain? And the rest of your examples are pretty foolish, too, especially those last two, Dick Umile is the Manager of the UNH hockey team? And that last one, you do understand that Canadians and Americans spell some words - centre/center - a little differently but they're the same word, right?

I always say assistant - because I agree that alternate implies they have no responsibilities unless the captain is missing. Getting an A is every bit the bestowing of leadership responsibilities.

More importantly, I think it is a lame pet peeve and if I can twist that knife I'll do it as often as possible.

That said, I don't like that Tirone was named an assistant captain. I think there were better choices for assistant captain. I worry that his being an assistant captain will eliminate any semblance of a goalie competition because they'll need him on the ice as an assistant captain. There's a reason goalies aren't often named assistant captains. Assistant captains should be skaters and/or consistent quality contributors in whatever role they have. Those are just my thoughts on assistant captains - and Tirone being named an assistant captain...

[HockeyRef]

My point is there is bigger issues to fry then someone incorrectly using assistant vs alternate captain. Hockey team or hockey club?

Oops I guess that's my bad on the term but I imagine I've said a lot worse on this board....

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

"All politics is local."(Tip O'Neil)

Captains and ALTERNATE Captains, voted on by the players, is usually a popularity contest (doesnt apply to the pro level) IMHO! The real leaders emerge on the ice through the course of the season ie. Kelleher and Salvaggio last year. Clearly Cleland was a leader on the ice and was a great choice but so were the aforementioned Kelleher and Salvaggio as demonstrated by their performance on the ice.

[Ned Braden]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I always say assistant - because I agree that alternate implies they have no responsibilities unless the captain is missing. Getting an A is every bit the bestowing of leadership responsibilities.

More importantly, I think it is a lame pet peeve and if I can twist that knife I'll do it as often as possible.

That said, I don't like that Tirone was named an assistant captain. I think there were better choices for assistant captain. I worry that his being an assistant captain will eliminate any semblance of a goalie competition because they'll need him on the ice as an assistant captain. There's a reason goalies aren't often named assistant captains. Assistant captains should be skaters and/or consistent quality contributors in whatever role they have. Those are just my thoughts on assistant captains - and Tirone being named an assistant captain...

Attempts at humor (even bad ones) will not be tolerated. We have bigger issues to fry!

[Dan]

Attempts at humor (even bad ones) will not be tolerated. We have bigger issues to fry!

Huh, I thought it was pretty good. I definitely LOL'd.

But i have plenty of jokes about the bigger issues too!

Have you heard the one about the coach who wouldn't change with the times??

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I always say assistant - because I agree that alternate implies they have no responsibilities unless the captain is missing. Getting an A is every bit the bestowing of leadership responsibilities.

More importantly, I think it is a lame pet peeve and if I can twist that knife I'll do it as often as possible.

Here's the problem, the A literally stands for Alternate, not by convention or tradition, but by as in it's in the rulebook.

I guess we could say that Chara has worn the C so long that he's now the Colonel and not the Captain, but that would be silly, just like...And it is for when the captain is missing, from the ice. In which case, alternatively, another player may talk to the ref. To stretch it further, the alternate can't assist the captain in talking to the ref, if the C is already talking the ref will tell the A to skate away. So it's totally alternative and not assistant.

[Dan]

Here's the problem, the A literally stands for Alternate, not by convention or tradition, but by as in it's in the rulebook.

I guess we could say that Chara has worn the C so long that he's now the Colonel and not the Captain, but that would be silly, just like...And it is for when the captain is missing, from the ice. In which case, alternatively, another player may talk to the ref. To stretch it further, the alternate can't assist the captain in talking to the ref, if the C is already talking the ref will tell the A to skate away. So it's totally alternative and not assistant.

Any fan can refer to the A as they wish. I simply do not care how it is termed in the rule book - the A works interchangeably based on the actual role of the designee including his responsibility to assist in leading off the ice. A MUCH more important role than speaking to the on-ice officials. Therefore, I prefer and will always use the less pretentious term of assistant.

In soccer rule books it's all this kit and pitch and team as a plural BS. I'm completely fine being my own man and my own fan - of hockey, soccer is garbage.

Therefore I prefer and use the following. Assistant. Jersey/Uniform (you will never catch me saying sweater either). Field. Singular. I don't need to impress anyone by using their preferred vocabulary, least of all some English hooligan or insecure American futbol supporter...

[e.cat]

Any fan can refer to the A as they wish. I simply do not care how it is termed in the rule book - the A works interchangeably based on the actual role of the designee including his responsibility to assist in leading off the ice. A MUCH more important role than speaking to the on-ice officials. Therefore, I prefer and will always use the less pretentious term of assistant.

In soccer rule books it's all this kit and pitch and team as a plural BS. I'm completely fine being my own man and my own fan - of hockey, soccer is garbage.

Therefore I prefer and use the following. Assistant. Jersey/Uniform (you will never catch me saying sweater either). Field. Singular. I don't need to impress anyone by using their preferred vocabulary, least of all some English hooligan or insecure American futbol supporter...

Don't forget oganISation and organIZation, locker room and dressing room!Haha

[Greg Ambrose]

Wow - Impressive how you over simplify one conversation and ignore the other all at once. Everyone here understands that talent and leadership don't go hand in hand. Absolutely NO ONE has a problem with the captains not being stars.

What people have had a problem with in the past - is a player who shouldn't even have been in the regular line-up getting a C and being placed on the first line and PP unit as a result.

The reality for Chanter is he was always going to play - and should in my opinion - on the third pair. I'm completely ok with him as captain. But there is zero question that a C seals his place in the line-up and creates a slimmer window for three FR D to play. Even on a part time basis. That's a legitimate conversation even if you don't enjoy it. And I say that as one of Chanters most vocal fans on this board for years.

I'm not sure how you can question people wondering if the best players will play with a straight face. It has never been that straight forward with Umile and it IS one of the biggest reasons why recruiting went of a cliff. We need look no further than Salvaggio and McNicholas to know being better doesn't get you into the line-up or your deserved role as a FR or SO...

Tirone getting the A is a problem - I don't care how hard he works or that he stayed in the UML game to take a beating. He's not very good, has never been held accountable for his performance and certainly won't now thy he is not only an A but the only A. He should be forced to compete for the job - the letter ensures he won't have to (and should he play poorly - will never fully lose it)...

Dan, everything you say here is true. Having watched Umile since he became coach, there is absolutely no question that he favors plodding seniors over flashy freshmen. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of freshmen who took on prominent roles over upperclassmen. Boguniecki, Murray, Haydar pop into my head right away. Someone mentioned Saviano, who definitely should have played as a freshman over at least two or three upperclassmen. So when you look at the incoming freshmen, particularly the dmen, my guess is Umile will rotate them in and out and decide which are most effective while the upperclassmen literally skate free.

As for how captains are selected, the vibe I always got was that Umile had veto power. Obviously the players have first say but I was told more than once by people who were familiar with the locker room that they followed the implied guidance of their coach. I think way back, in the 90s, there was one guy the players chose that Umile didn't take to, but they added him as a third alternate.

To me the most maddening is the TIrone situation. Really, as Dan says, he cannot play, at least with any sort of consistency. It's always what are you going to get, the Good Danny or the Bad Danny? Last year, and the year before, it was mostly the Bad Danny, wasn't it? I know people will say, what about the Merrimack playoff games? Well what about them? Perhaps if he had played with a modicum of consistency, UNH wouldn't have finished ninth. After all, the only won one game in the last two months. How that record can be rewarded is beyond me.

[UNH1932]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Danny meets the criteria for leadership and character. I know you do not like him but he was pretty good this year .912 save % with awful defense is pretty good and he had the most saves of any goalie in the country. I believe they will play the best players and we have enough firepower already Dan with our first 3 lines and the fourth line will be very good as well. Chris Miller won two awards at the banquet so he will not be sitting. Wyse is a top notch defensemen and played every game he was not hurt last year. Gildon, Maas and Miller (D) will be playing. If we can make it through the year without having multiple longer term injuries, I do believe we will be very good this year. I admire your passion but it is not Tirone's fault that we were well under .500 last year. We will not be near Denver but will have 19 games at the Whit. Make a trip back to visit your family and I hope you will be pleased with the product this year. Let us be positive as this is the best overall talent we have had in a long time (Kevin Regan is not walking through that door) and our top 6 defensemen will be 6-1 1/2 and 205 lbs with both defensive and offensive talent. Be optimistic and if we suck I will be the first to admit that I was wrong.

[UNH1932]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Patrick was a good student not a 4.0 student and he was a US Under 18 kid that had a lot of injuries Snively. Can we just let Colin Mac alone as he is doing very well in his professional career albeit a lower level league.

[Greg Ambrose]

Danny meets the criteria for leadership and character. I know you do not like him but he was pretty good this year .912 save % with awful defense is pretty good and he had the most saves of any goalie in the country. I believe they will play the best players and we have enough firepower already Dan with our first 3 lines and the fourth line will be very good as well. Chris Miller won two awards at the banquet so he will not be sitting. Wyse is a top notch defensemen and played every game he was not hurt last year. Gildon, Maas and Miller (D) will be playing. If we can make it through the year without having multiple longer term injuries, I do believe we will be very good this year. I admire your passion but it is not Tirone's fault that we were well under .500 last year. We will not be near Denver but will have 19 games at the Whit. Make a trip back to visit your family and I hope you will be pleased with the product this year. Let us be positive as this is the best overall talent we have had in a long time (Kevin Regan is not walking through that door) and our top 6 defensemen will be 6-1 1/2 and 205 lbs with both defensive and offensive talent. Be optimistic and if we suck I will be the first to admit that I was wrong.

Curious, how many wins are you projecting for a team that one game in the last two months of the regular season?

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Patrick was a good student not a 4.0 student and he was a US Under 18 kid that had a lot of injuries Snively. Can we just let Colin Mac alone as he is doing very well in his professional career albeit a lower level league.

I must be confusing the 4.0 with another former UNH captain, but not sure who that might be.

Here are some links that follow Patrick Foley's career, including the night that the Sox lost game 7 to the Yankees in 2003, which led to Dick suspending eight of his players for two games (Foley was a senior and co-captain that year with Saviano, and also missed a couple of games early in the season for concussion symptoms, not suspension).

The list of former hockey captains and co-captains (no A's included! ) is from the UNH webpages, but Foley's first year as a co-captain appears to have been left off for some reason. I remember following some of those early captains, like Rod Blackburn and Brad Houston, at the outdoor Batchelder rink. Another favorite Dude Thorn never made captain. I guess.

http://www.seacoastonline.com/articl...orts/310249891

http://unhhockeyblog.blogspot.com/20...-foley_06.html

http://www.ecachockey.com/men/member...rvardtabsfoley

http://www.themackreport.com/news/co...oaching-hires/


1960-1961 Rod Blackburn
1961-1962 Ken McKinnon, Ed Mullen, Sam Nichols
1962-1963 Dick Lamontagne
1963-1964 Clarence Littell
1964-1965 John Gilday
1965-1966 Brad Houston
1966-1967 Robert Walsh
1967-1968 Graham Bruder
1968-1969 Graham Bruder
1969-1970 Ryan Brandt, Allan Clark
1970-1971 Louis Frigon
1971-1972 Dick Umile
1972-1973 Bill Beaney
1973-1974 Gordie Clark
1974-1975 Mike Burkart
1975-1976 Jamie Hislop
1976-1977 Barry Edgar
1977-1978 Jon Fontas
1978-1979 Bob Gould
1979-1980 Bob Francis
1980-1981 Dana Barbin, Sean Coady
1981-1982 Ed Olsen
1982-1983 Dan Forget
1983-1984 Paul Barton, Ken Chisolm
1984-1985 Scott Ellison, Dwayne Robinson, Ralph Robinson
1985-1986 Peter Herms, James Richmond
1986-1987 James Richmond
1987-1988 Tim Hanley, Rick Lambert
1988-1989 Tim Shields
1989-1990 Chris Grassie
1990-1991 Riel Bellegarde, David MacIntyre
1991-1992 Savo Mitrovic
1992-1993 Kevin Thomson
1993-1994 Bob Chebator
1994-1995 Eric Flinton, Kent Schmidtke
1995-1996 Mike Sullivan
1996-1997 Eric Boguniecki, Tim Murray
1997-1998 Mark Mowers
1998-1999 Jason Krog, Steve O’Brien
1999-2000 Mike Souza, Dan Enders
2000-2001 Ty Conklin
2001-2002 Darren Haydar
2002-2003 Patrick Foley
2003-2004 Patrick Foley, Steve Saviano
2004-2005 Justin Aikins, Preston Callander, Tyson Teplitsky
2005-2006 Brian Yandle
2006-2007 Josh Ciocco
2007-2008 Matt Fornataro
2008-2009 Joe Charlebois, Greg Collins
2009-2010 Bobby Butler, Peter LeBlanc
2010-2011 Mike Sislo
2011-2012 Mike Borisenok, Damon Kipp
2012-2013 Connor Hardowa
2013-2014 Eric Knodel
2014-2015 Matt Willows
2015-2016 Collin MacDonald
2016-2017 Matias Cleland