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  • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Originally posted by UNH1932 View Post
    It would have been nice but we should not break the 30 players at time rule.
    I have UNH at 28 next year, even with Boyd. Shall we expect more?

    Sr.Salvaggio----Sr.McNicholas --- So.Grasso
    Jr.Nazarian -----So.Blackburn -- Jr.Vela
    Sr.Eiserman ----Fr.Kelleher-------Fr.MacAdams
    So.BVR----------Jr.Miller---------So.Fregona
    Fr.Cipollone ----Jr.Cefalu--------So.Sacco

    Sr.Mark------So.Wyse
    Fr.Gildon-----Fr.Maass
    Fr.Miller-----Sr.Chanter
    Jr.Dawson----Fr.Darcy
    So.Nonis ---Sr.Boyd??

    Tirone/Clark/Robinson
    Last edited by NCAA watcher; 03-21-2017, 11:04 AM.
    The Souza record:
    15-16 10th place
    16-17 10th place
    17-18 11th place
    18-19 8th place
    19-20 9th place
    20-21 10th place
    21-22 9th place
    22-23 10th place

    Comment


    • Originally posted by UNH1932 View Post
      You hit the nail on the head with Stafford and Hemingway. Haydar and Murray were big hits too. We have recruited some stars as you noted. Admissions took out some of our big hits over the past 6-8 years and we have had a pretty tough time. I know the Hemingway story quite well. We have had quite a few all-americans but for many they did not get their first choice and that was great for us in Kevin Regan's case as he killed BU during his time to show Parker his mistake in not signing him. There are many others in that era as well and we got very good players for sure but not the top kids in the country as a general rule. We find those kids that others do not know. Our Waterloo connection brought four stars in one year in the mid 2000's. None but Kessel was considered a sure thing but that is our best team in a long time.
      I, respectfully, disagree - I believe the step down from stars and kids who chose UNH to landing solid-to-very good talent and becoming a second choice was Borek's inability to keep a good thing going. When he stumbled again - in addition to fumbling away some of his best recruits - we landed where we are today...
      Last edited by Dan; 03-21-2017, 11:09 AM.
      Live Free or Die!!
      Miami University '03

      Comment


      • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

        Originally posted by Dan View Post
        Let's get real Sam. Everyone knows that BC, BU, DU, ND, MN, WI and MI are the programs considered a part of the majestic pantheon of college hockey... that group. Providence isn't. Yale isn't. Union isn't. Quinipiac isn't. Who cares.
        Absolutely! It's a new world order. However, if UNH wants to get there, they need to look at what some of these new bloods are doing. Going head to head vs BU and BC is still not going to work in the long run.
        Originally posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010
        The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Nick Papagiorgio View Post
          Absolutely! It's a new world order. However, if UNH wants to get there, they need to look at what some of these new bloods are doing. Going head to head vs BU and BC is still not going to work in the long run.
          Disagree - first of all, if I'm recruiting for UNH I believe in what I'm selling and I'm not afraid of anyone. I'll go after the kids I like and I don't care who else is targeting them. All of the blue bloods or nobody...

          'Hey kid, come to UNH. We're going to do great things. Be a part of something special and re-awaken a heck of a successful program. You can have all of the personal and team success you can have there, here and then some..."

          You may not win all the battles, probably not even the majority, but you'll get some real nice pick ups doing that.

          More importantly, here's the secret. Early recruiting. You know what doesn't get mentioned enough? Early recruiting is an advantage for the smaller schools. How can that be you ask...?

          First of all you CAN compete for recruits with the 'top' programs. And you'll set a real nice base with some real good talent. You may even pick up a kid or two that has AA talent and hasn't hit the radar of the bigger schools because it's so early. First offer is big.

          But here's the kicker - say UNH and BC go head to head over eight kids in a class. BC gets six and UNH gets two. That's two elite talents for UNH that they didn't cheat themselves out of and now UNH gets six scholarship offers of money back! So BC is done, but because UNH got after it and targeted the best early, not only did they do well, they still have tons of time finish off a class.

          So they grab two next tier kids who are bound for extremely productive college careers. Then they have enough money to grab three more kids - a combination of late bloomers and studs decommitting from the first wave.

          All of a sudden, UNH has a heck of a class on par with anyone's. All of a sudden, UNH can compete with anyone.

          Don't get after it with the blue bloods and you miss on every shoot you don't take. So you're starting from scratch, you're desperate. Your second tier kids become your first liners. You have to take more flyers

          Going head to head with BC and BU is only part of the process, by you HAVE to do it to be successful...
          Last edited by Dan; 03-21-2017, 11:38 AM.
          Live Free or Die!!
          Miami University '03

          Comment


          • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

            Originally posted by Dan View Post
            Going head to head with BC and BU is only part of the process, by you HAVE to do it to be successful...
            You can't always get what you want. But if you try some time you get what you need....

            and you send a message to other recruits that you are playing the game.

            UNH HOCKEY LANDS A PROLIFIC SCORER BY BARRY SCANLON DECEMBER 21, 1993
            One of the highest scorers in the United States Hockey League has given the University of New Hampshire a verbal commitment, the Democrat has learned. Adding talent to an already strong recruiting class is Mark Mowers, a speedy 5'11 170 pound forward currently skating for the Dubuque (Iowa) Fighting Saints. Mowers, 19, selected UNH after visiting Minnesota-Duluth, Providence, North Dakota and Bowling Green. "I guess I just felt very comfortable (at UNH)," Mowers said Monday from his Whitesboro, NY home. I felt real comfortable with the players and the coaches." "I could see myself being at the university for four years," he added. "I felt right at home. They're going to be a good team down the road and I want to be a part of it."
            Mowers has led Dubuque to a 16-6-1 record. In 22 games, he has scored 29 goals and added 14 assists for 43 points to rank third in the USHL scoring race. He has scored a point in every game he has played this season, breaking the team record of 19. "I guess I'm just blossoming at the right time," Mowers said. Mowers was at Snively arena on Dec. 4 to watch UNH defeat the University of Massachusetts at Lowell 3-1. He said he was so impressed by his visit that he nearly canceled scheduled visits to Minnesota Duluth and north Dakota. "I felt like making my decision then. I could have made my decision right then," he said. He said he visited Minnesota-Duluth and North Dakota out of courtesy, to see what else was "out there" but he said his decision to accept UNH's scholarship offer was an easy one. "I've had so many sleepless nights thinking about it," he said of the recruiting process. "It's just crazy. There are just so many things going though your mind. I'm sleeping good now. I have no doubts about my decision," Mowers continued.
            During the 1992-93 season, Mowers compiled 31-38-69 totals for Saginaw of the North American Junior Hockey League. He finished fourth among NAJHL's scorers in 39 games. Mowers said he was especially impressed by UNH's coaching staff and the support the community and students give the team during his visit to the Durham campus. "The atmosphere was just great," he said. "Bowling Green had a lot of fans (at the game he saw there) but it seemed the crowd (at UNH) got so much more involved in the game." Mowers was recruited by assistant coach Brian McCloskey. He said he felt comfortable around McCloskey, assistant coach Jim Tororella, and head coach Dick Umile. "I fell in love with Coach Umile,” he said. "He seems like a great guy to play for." UNH has had success with USHL players in the past. Former Wildcat All-American goaltender Jeff Levy and current defenseman Kent Schmidtke, a steady junior, were teammates in the competitive league.
            The UNH coaching staff is happy with the way the 1994-95 freshman class is developing. Mowers and fellow forwards Rob Gagnon (Avon Old Farms) and Eric Nickulas (Cushing Academy) will help fill the void left by current seniors Bob Chebator, Jason Dexter, Rob Donovan and Glenn Stewart. Pat Bottino (New England College Development League All-star) will bolster an already strong defensive corps which will include Todd Hall, a transfer from Boston College who is sitting out this season. The UNH recruiting class may be complete. But UNH is also in the hunt for Robbie Gordon, a highly-touted center from British Columbia, who visited Durham last week. Gordon has narrowed his choices down to UNH, Boston College, Boston University, Denver and Michigan. He is expected to select his college in about two weeks.
            The Souza record:
            15-16 10th place
            16-17 10th place
            17-18 11th place
            18-19 8th place
            19-20 9th place
            20-21 10th place
            21-22 9th place
            22-23 10th place

            Comment


            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

              Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
              You can't always get what you want. But if you try some time you get what you need....

              and you send a message to other recruits that you are playing the game.
              I agree wholeheartedly watcher about going after the best players. We always do and there are 5-6 BU players and 5-6 BC players that visited UNH. Getting back to tournament and having a young coach they can relate to will help at some level. We have not had a win since Steve Moses vs BC. We cannot even get NH kids who grew up here to come to UNH if BC offers. We have others in the pipeline and I am happy with the progress so far. It does trouble me that we lose out to Northeastern and UConn too often head to head over the past 4-5 years. That never happened before. We lost 6 times over past 4 years to either Notre Dame and Michigan. Most of them would have had better careers at UNH as top two pairings or top two lines would have been better for their hockey progression. We just need to work very hard this year as we have seven or more graduating at the end of next year and that will open up opportunities to reload with top tier recruits as we will have money available.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by UNH1932 View Post
                I agree wholeheartedly watcher about going after the best players. We always do and there are 5-6 BU players and 5-6 BC players that visited UNH. Getting back to tournament and having a young coach they can relate to will help at some level. We have not had a win since Steve Moses vs BC. We cannot even get NH kids who grew up here to come to UNH if BC offers. We have others in the pipeline and I am happy with the progress so far. It does trouble me that we lose out to Northeastern and UConn too often head to head over the past 4-5 years. That never happened before. We lost 6 times over past 4 years to either Notre Dame and Michigan. Most of them would have had better careers at UNH as top two pairings or top two lines would have been better for their hockey progression. We just need to work very hard this year as we have seven or more graduating at the end of next year and that will open up opportunities to reload with top tier recruits as we will have money available.
                Not winning a battle with BC since Moses, has nothing to do with BC versus UNH and everything to do with those recruiting for UNH and those recruiting BC. UNH has needed a dramatic upgrade in recruiters since Borek spilled Bourque, White and Reid down his leg.

                If they get that guy - or if Souza is that guy - they'll start winning a few again. Commesso and Gildon - whether BC offered officially or not - are that type of player and BC would love to have them...

                Hopefully that means Souza gets it - now he needs to prove he can be consistent and not surround these guys with also rans - As well as prove that he can NOT blow his best commitments - like his predecessor...
                Last edited by Dan; 03-21-2017, 01:33 PM.
                Live Free or Die!!
                Miami University '03

                Comment


                • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

                  Originally posted by UNH1932 View Post
                  I agree wholeheartedly watcher about going after the best players. We always do and there are 5-6 BU players and 5-6 BC players that visited UNH. Getting back to tournament and having a young coach they can relate to will help at some level. We have not had a win since Steve Moses vs BC. We cannot even get NH kids who grew up here to come to UNH if BC offers. We have others in the pipeline and I am happy with the progress so far. It does trouble me that we lose out to Northeastern and UConn too often head to head over the past 4-5 years. That never happened before. We lost 6 times over past 4 years to either Notre Dame and Michigan. Most of them would have had better careers at UNH as top two pairings or top two lines would have been better for their hockey progression. We just need to work very hard this year as we have seven or more graduating at the end of next year and that will open up opportunities to reload with top tier recruits as we will have money available.
                  Kids are different today. They are "drawn" by the urban lifestyle. The days of the Saskatchewan farm boy being comfortable in, say, Orono, are over. Technology and social media have changed people and nobody wants to be "stuck" somewhere anymore. It's just the way it is. This is not to refute anything anyone has said, just that it's going to be a little more difficult than it might have even been before. Which is really just reinforcing what you said about getting that "right" recruiting person.

                  Comment


                  • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

                    Originally posted by chickod View Post
                    Kids are different today. They are "drawn" by the urban lifestyle. The days of the Saskatchewan farm boy being comfortable in, say, Orono, are over. Technology and social media have changed people and nobody wants to be "stuck" somewhere anymore. It's just the way it is. This is not to refute anything anyone has said, just that it's going to be a little more difficult than it might have even been before. Which is really just reinforcing what you said about getting that "right" recruiting person.
                    Durham isn't exactly the middle of nowhere that would be Orono.
                    "Now Progress Takes Away What Forever Took To Find" Dave Matthews Band, The Dreaming Tree

                    Comment


                    • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

                      Originally posted by JB View Post
                      Durham isn't exactly the middle of nowhere that would be Orono.
                      I said Orono. But Durham isn't exactly Boston or Denver or South Bend, either. You can't hop on a subway and go to a million restaurants, clubs concerts, the beach (or whatever else kids do these days), etc.

                      You have to be a salesperson in ANYTHING you do in life. I learned that years ago. It doesn't matter how "good" you are, if you can't convince anyone else that you are, it doesn't matter. You could be the best dentist in the world (just to pick a random example), but if you aren't warm and friendly and people don't like you, it'll be "one and done." They'll find someone else to go to. That's just the way it is. Nobody said life was perfect.

                      Comment


                      • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

                        Originally posted by Snively65 View Post
                        I am surprised that you would dismiss the 1997-1998 team, our first to reach a FF since 1982. Besides having four high-scoring forwards on that team (Krog, Bekar, Nolan, and Mowers), the team had Jayme Filipowicz (31 points) on the blue line, and five other D-men (Bragnalo, Lind, Enders, O'Brien, and White) who were solid, along with a fine goalie in Sean Matile. Souza had 25 points that sophomore season also, and got the assist for Mowers' goal that beat BU 4-3 in OT, which sent UNH to the FF from the Northeast Regionals. UNH simply could not get anything by Marty Turco in that Semi's game, which is too bad, as a UNH-BC NC game that season would have been one for the ages, like the NC game the next year (BC had won the HEA regular season and tourney, IIRC).
                        I don't dismiss 1997-1998 team it was the last year of full speed ahead, flying offense and they won games 10-1. That team was a blast to watch with 2 60 plus point scorers and 2 50 plus point scorers leading the way. In comparison only 11 players made 50+ points this year in all of D-I Hockey. The end of that season was forgetful and most tend to... It is back far enough that USCHO nor Hockey East have the schedule and results posted. That team went into a tail spin and lost something like 7 of 9 down the stretch including getting bounced in the first round in Durham of Hockey East tournament. There Achilles heal was playing a trapping defense, I recall Umass started the stretch trapping there way to two wins... all the Hockey East losses coming against a neutral zone trap they couldn't beat. With the offense attaching the D was very open to a traps counter attack. With their record in the last 16 so bad many didn't believe they would make the NCAAs and just made it. The games that year were in Albany and it was very warm and the ice was soft. People I knew couldn't believe I went to Albany, I went with an eye patch after an emergency room visit the night before for a metal chip in/on my eye... Wisconsin was stupid enough to be the first team in ~10 games to try and skate with that crew - it worked in the first period when Wisco was up 3-1 before getting there doors blown of 7-4. I didn't think with the soft ice UNH had a prayer against a rested BU... BU didn't really strangle them with D and UNH won in overtime on a short handed goal. I will for ever credit the large BC contingent that cheered and cheered (for UNH) against BU for providing some energy to that UNH team on the ice.

                        4.28 GPG even with that terrible closing stretch against trapping teams...
                        2.57 GA
                        1.71 differential

                        I was in Boston... Michigan completely shut them down. I got really sick during the BC-Michigan championship game, diagnosed with mono the next week, it was a bad month for me... I will forever believe that lesson of a Michigan team that could score and play defense forever changed UNH. The teams after 98-99 to 2007-08 were more defensively sound and as such had much better goaltending.

                        I offer 98-99 as comparison
                        4.14 GPG
                        2.19 GA
                        1.95 differential

                        The change may seem slight but the work in the d-zone to get from 2.57 to 2.19 is significant.
                        "Now Progress Takes Away What Forever Took To Find" Dave Matthews Band, The Dreaming Tree

                        Comment


                        • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

                          Originally posted by chickod View Post
                          I said Orono. But Durham isn't exactly Boston or Denver or South Bend, either. You can't hop on a subway and go to a million restaurants, clubs concerts, the beach (or whatever else kids do these days), etc.
                          Durham isn't in a city... Portsmouth is close, really fun and a bus ride, hence why it is full of college aged people all the time. Many students that can afford it live close to Portsmouth. Amtrak stops on campus and it is not a long ride to Boston. Durham is not exactly an isolated outpost...

                          Northeastern and BU don't exactly have campus - it is intertwined in the City. Some kids like that. Others want a campus situation. That is something a really good recruiter figures out early.
                          "Now Progress Takes Away What Forever Took To Find" Dave Matthews Band, The Dreaming Tree

                          Comment


                          • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

                            Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
                            Huh? Don't know where this "UNH never went after top kids" narrative comes from. Its false. Collins was the highest recruited Mass kid, and Souza was a hot prospect. Saviano was a bit underrated, but even BU wanted him as a gateway to Collins.Souza was a member of the USA Select 17 team, and committed the second day of the recruiting season (back when they had that)
                            The story on Collins that I always heard was that he was undecided between BU, BC, and UNH but when he heard that UNH had landed Eddie Caron, he jumped on board. I always thought that period, 2001 or so, was the peak of interest in UNH. McCloskey moved a couple of years later and the rest is history.

                            Comment


                            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

                              Originally posted by Dan View Post
                              That old saying goes double for UNHs recent recruiting efforts. I think it goes without saying that I lean more towards Watcher and the idea that UNH (with the right recruiter) can compete for any dang kid they choose...

                              I KNOW they can, because they Have.

                              I was down on the Souza hire - I am more hopeful now that commits like Commesso and Gildon are an indication he truly believes UNH can. But I agree that the message needs to be more of a determined, "We are going to win. Period. Come be the kid who puts us back on top. This trains leaving, get on board!"

                              Recruits love that - hearing about how they'll be used and how they will make notable impacts.

                              I need to see a lot more before I buy in completely...

                              ---

                              As for next season - I hope you're right, but they will need an unusual amount of players to make immediate impacts or big jumps to get to 20. I think it's more likely some leaps happen, but not enough. UNHs top talent levels have been so unbalanced lately. They've had plenty of good players lately, but the next wave was too far behind. I think UNHs path back takes a little more time and requires more grabs like Gildon to ensure a talent balance...

                              To win 20 next year they'll need Salvaggio and McNicholas to not miss a beat without TK. They'll need Vela and Nazarian to join them. Blackburn and Grasso will have to make Trevor Smith type sophomore jumps. All of this just to match the offensive output they turned in the past two seasons.

                              The FR defenseman will need to play like upperclassmen and recognize their talent immediately. Team defense and goaltending will need to improve dramatically.

                              It's possible, but would be a pleasant surprise. I think Souza needs to really hammer home culture and process next year. In grain doing things the right way, even if it leads to losses. When UNH does have that mature balance of talent, hopefully that culture and belief is instilled. Then the team is ready. Assuming they have the outside support...
                              Dan, no mention of the goalie. Without an upgrade there, what the rest of the roster does is irrelevant. Btw, Glad that you and others have stepped back from the ledge on Souza. Give the guy a chance. It has to be a difficult job recruiting kids to play for a lame duck coach. UNH is not alone, because it seems Michigan has been in the same boat the last couple of years. The coaching turnover this year and, I believe next, is going to change the game dramatically I believe.

                              Comment


                              • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

                                Originally posted by Dan View Post
                                Let's get real Sam. Everyone knows that BC, BU, DU, ND, MN, WI and MI are the programs considered a part of the majestic pantheon of college hockey. And personally, those fan bases are welcome to slap their backs sore with pride. Personally, I couldn't give a **** about being in that group. Providence isn't. Yale isn't. Union isn't. Quinipiac isn't. Who cares.

                                Watchers evidence clearly proves that for a long stretch of time UNH had no problem competing with those programs for top recruits. They can do it again. On the ice, head to head records would indicate that for a long stretch UNH had no problem going toe to toe with any of those teams. As far as an overall recruiting package UNH can offer a heck of an experience comparable to any of those programs.

                                Great campus, winning and prestigious history, more than fine academic programs, a great facility, a wonderful location, a passionate if slumbering fan base, top athletic billing on campus, a legitimate pathway to the NHL and much more...

                                The only thing missing has been someone who could paint the picture and sell it.

                                UNH made 15 NCAA tournaments, four FFs and won seven regular season titles in a 19 year span. With the right coach - perhaps and hopefully Souza - they can get back to competing on a national level annually. Whether that gets them in the 'club'? Who cares...
                                Like the positive vibe. I would say to Nick that there are 60 schools playing D1 hockey. Not now, but then (say, 1996-2010), UNH was in the upper echelon. Were they, BU, BC, Maine, Michigan, North Dakota, Denver? Well no. But that's 6 schools, 10% of the total. Was UNH in the next 6, top 20%? Well ya. I can see them getting back there, if the head coach sets the tone, hires the right assistants who sell the school and what hockey has meant to it. Given the state of college hockey these days, I really don't think it takes long to get back in the conversation. When you see Yale, Duluth and Union winning national championships while Michigan, Michigan St., Miami and CC, once proud programs, are in the toilet, the possibility is there.

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