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  • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

    Originally posted by Dan View Post
    Sorry Chuck - these are not good (or fair) points, they are terrible points, as they are nothing more than outlandish, faux-anecdotal hyperbole. As the only person on this entire message board who watches every Denver/UNH game I can tell you without a doubt DU goalies face far more than three scoring chances a game and the idea that well over a third of the shots Tirone faces are Grade-A, and he is constantly under siege, is simply laughable. As in all Tirone faced at Michigan State was breakaways - when he faced NONE - laughable. As in Tirone is remotely the goalie Cal Peterson is laughable. If a wrist shot from the point gets by Tirone unscreened, that puck going in does not make it a grade-A scoring chance. If he has to dive across the crease because he's way out of position, that is not him stuffing out another scoring chance - its him being out of position...

    1932 - if you would like to have a discussion of Tirone based in reality, statistics and video instead of whatever fantasy world you think he plays in, we can continue this conversation. Until then, your complete departure from what has actually taken place on the ice does Tirone the biggest disservice of anyone on this board. Us Tirone 'haters' wouldn't have to come here with the facts about his production and the video evidence of his performance so often if you didn't try to pretend he is Patrick Roy playing behind a bunch of mite defenders. Do Tirone a favor and stop attempting to build him up as the second coming, perhaps his actual performance will not be so dissapointing to the 'haters'...

    ---

    BTW - speaking of facts. UNH allowed an average of 33.45 shots per game this season. So, essentially 40+...
    You are the genius and please let me know any team you have coached hockey for in your life and I will accept you as an expert at this like I do Coach Souza and Umile. You are probably right about the 33.45 shots per game mister but I stated he saw 40 against many of the better teams (Notre Dame who was in the Frozen four and their fans know how good Danny is as he saw 90 shots and a ton of grade A shots) and you do not see the whole rink while you are bashing Danny. I am sure Danny would take any suggestions to make him a better goalie and he did see more grade A chances than probably any other goalie in Hockey East. One more year of him and then you will find other faults for our team. I might suggest you find another team as our coaches, players and families and true fans with season tickets are not buying your BS.

    Comment


    • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

      Originally posted by E.J. Smith View Post
      I’m not a big advanced analytics guy myself, by which I mean they’re not something I enjoy or look at frequently, but the bottom line is if the stuff you mentioned above – 3 pt. shots, 5 yd. passes, big goalies – didn’t work, teams wouldn’t use them. I think you’re kind of blaming the messenger, aa might have uncovered or confirmed that those things work but aa didn’t create them.

      Most of them are just natural evolutions of the games, or if there is blame, it’s on the rules that have been put in place. If you put a line on the floor and say shots from beyond it count more, pro athletes are going to get good at it, and what was once special or extra becomes normal. Did people really not see that coming? Same thing with skewing all the rules in favor of the offense, and suddenly teams don’t bother running the ball? No kidding.
      I couldn't agree with you more, EJ. It's mostly exploiting the rules as they currently exist (more on that later). The NBA could fix their emerging problem by eliminating the wing 3 pointers, and stick with the true arc - maybe back to the 25 foot distance they used to use back in the ABA (it's currently 23 ft. 9 in. in the NBA). The NFL has done so much to limit what defenders can or cannot do, and pushed passing at the expense of running for so long, it's hard to even begin to fix that issue without a major overhaul. But that sport is heading towards two hand touch soon enough anyway, I almost can't be bothered anymore. The latest is now they're looking to take all kicking out of football. You can't make this stuff up. And I haven't even mentioned the blight on sports that instant replay has become ... now git off ma lawn!! Anyway ...

      Originally posted by E.J. Smith View Post
      One of the downfalls in hockey is when goalie equipment went from protection to performance. The Michelin Man look is all about blocking more of the net, not protecting the goalie. But I have at least an equal problem with cross checking now being all but legal - sorry, “working the hips”, (absolute crap). It’s the 21st century clutch and grab, allows slow footed defensemen to keep quick forwards in the corner, when they would otherwise leave that dman standing there and wheel out for a shot. We don’t have any more 50 goal scorers? Let guys like Marchand and Pastrnak control the puck in the corner without getting 6 ft. of lumber across the back and they’d both easily be 40 goal scorers this year. That’s not aa, that's the NHL being its old idiot self in terms of rules and officiating.
      Agree with you on rules enforcement (or lack thereof). And I'd agree with you on the ridiculousness of today's goalie equipment, but apparently our eyes must be failing us in our old age, 'cuz apparently it's not an issue according to some ...

      Originally posted by Dan View Post
      And sticking with the theme of reality/facts of the larger pads you hate. I've been saving this post for you...
      Yes, thanks for pointing that out, Dan. I've seen it before. You notice the part, of course, where as time goes on, the rules get longer and address more issues and measurements, right? The part where 10 inches goes to "10 inches in extreme width" - geez, I wonder why they had to specify that? You know there is a difference there, right? Not too many goalies have shins that are 10" wide now, do they?

      Sean's post is a monument to the idea that goalies have consistently pushed the edges of what's allowable, and the rules have failed badly over time in an attempt to play catch-up and reasonably curtail things. Or it's just a matter of the powers that be are afraid to cut back on the equipment via more restrictive dimensions out of fear they will be accused of not providing adequate/ample protection for goalies.

      So the goalie equipment rules which used to be a simple single paragraph have evolved over the last generation plus to what looks to me like the equivalent of four paragraphs nowadays. Geez, I wonder why that's happened?

      But putting that aside, let's just use the eyeball test. Do you think what goalies wear today is the same as what they wore back at the start of Sean's treatise? I mean, other than way lighter and more flexible ... just sizewise. If you can find me video of any goalie from the start of Sean's timeline that looks like the Michelin Men of today, I promise I'll never raise the issue ever again. Cross my heart, etc.
      Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
      Montreal Expos Forever ...

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      • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

        EJ thanks for your evaluation (I appreciate you toning down from your regular rants) and JB I do not know you and just come to 104 and you can find me there every game and if you travel on the road, you will see me there as well. I do not know much about hockey as you all apparently do but others see Danny as better than you state. He won 14 games in one semester getting us to the garden his freshmen year. He lost a few very good defensemen and has not won as many games as the first year. Does this mean he is much worse now. Come to the games and Friends of Hockey gents and be men and go face to face with Umile and the players with your ideas and what would make the team better. Most of you are rarely or ever at the Whit. I know Snively 65 and a few others do go to some games and I appreciate most of your enthusiasm for the team. I am just tired and (I am sure Danny's mother and father are tired as well) of you all bashing this kid who has given his heart and soul to our team. I get many of you think he is below average but most who know anything about the game of hockey (and that is not me just like it is not most of you). I guess we can agree to disagree and I am open for competition with Robinson and Clark and I only want UNH to be better. I hope we can all agree that the team is heading in the right direction and recruiting has been very good over the past year. Most everyone that is a season ticket holder or involved at UNH knows who I am. When I retire, I will be like Chuck and Greg and use my real name. Hopefully I have quite a few years before this happens. Stay positive please and maybe Dryden could get a save percentage higher than Danny with UNH defense but I do believe you are not being fair in your evaluation of Tirone. Oetinger (sp) gave up as many goals against a weak UNH team as Tirone did at BU, is he an awful goalie too even when he saw half the shots.

        Comment


        • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

          Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
          Yes, thanks for pointing that out, Dan. I've seen it before. You notice the part, of course, where as time goes on, the rules get longer and address more issues and measurements, right? The part where 10 inches goes to "10 inches in extreme width" - geez, I wonder why they had to specify that? You know there is a difference there, right? Not too many goalies have shins that are 10" wide now, do they?

          Sean's post is a monument to the idea that goalies have consistently pushed the edges of what's allowable, and the rules have failed badly over time in an attempt to play catch-up and reasonably curtail things. Or it's just a matter of the powers that be are afraid to cut back on the equipment via more restrictive dimensions out of fear they will be accused of not providing adequate/ample protection for goalies.

          So the goalie equipment rules which used to be a simple single paragraph have evolved over the last generation plus to what looks to me like the equivalent of four paragraphs nowadays. Geez, I wonder why that's happened?

          But putting that aside, let's just use the eyeball test. Do you think what goalies wear today is the same as what they wore back at the start of Sean's treatise? I mean, other than way lighter and more flexible ... just sizewise. If you can find me video of any goalie from the start of Sean's timeline that looks like the Michelin Men of today, I promise I'll never raise the issue ever again. Cross my heart, etc.
          Spin, spin, spin...

          C'mon Chuck - Sean's 'treatise" stated that while goalie pads are larger than when YOU started watching hockey, they are smaller than the pads of 20 years ago (FYI, nets were the same size). He then backed it up with facts. I trust the facts a whole lot more than what you and your eyes want the truth to be. Unless you think everyone is cheating? Twenty years ago elite college teams were scoring well over 4.00 GPG. They aren't now and the rule book has slimmed down the pads you think are responsible. Goalies themselves are bigger - and despite being bigger, they are every bit as athletic. Which makes it harder to score. That's just the truth. Find me some evidence that rules are allowing for bigger pads than in the mid-90s or just admit that goal scoring is down for other reasons, because clinging to a myth because you want it to be the truth (and having understood the evidence all along)? SAD!

          You prefer goal scoring - there's nothing wrong with that - and if you still want to complain than argue the real reasons scoring is down. Like much more physical play/contact as outlined by EJ. You can still hate the game today. The reality is you are get off my lawn guy and you prefer sports the way they were when you were growing up. If one less GPG, walks or more passing ruins them for you, then I truly feel for you. That is a legitimate bummer, because sports are terrific today.

          Goalie pads may have been out of control at one time, but that has been reigned in, as all these "extra paragraphs, measurements and regulations" are in the book forcing them to be smaller today than during the UNH hockey hey-day you enjoyed so much. Ill never understand why - when faced with actual evidence - you can't just say, "huh, interesting, I guess its X instead of Y"...
          Last edited by Dan; 04-26-2017, 06:01 PM.
          Live Free or Die!!
          Miami University '03

          Comment


          • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

            Originally posted by UNH1932 View Post
            You are the genius and please let me know any team you have coached hockey for in your life and I will accept you as an expert at this like I do Coach Souza and Umile. You are probably right about the 33.45 shots per game mister but I stated he saw 40 against many of the better teams (Notre Dame who was in the Frozen four and their fans know how good Danny is as he saw 90 shots and a ton of grade A shots) and you do not see the whole rink while you are bashing Danny. I am sure Danny would take any suggestions to make him a better goalie and he did see more grade A chances than probably any other goalie in Hockey East. One more year of him and then you will find other faults for our team. I might suggest you find another team as our coaches, players and families and true fans with season tickets are not buying your BS.
            I never claimed to be a genius - but I know what I see and I do the work to verify my observations. You do not do that work. You clearly stated he saw 40+ all the time, and implied that 35% or so come with all five UNH players on the other side of the far blue line. I have no inclination to reach out to Umile or Souza to express my opinions. But, if you see them, you are welcome to suggest an actual goalie competition (it would bring the best out of Danny). You can even take credit for the idea. If Souza and Umile are upset about what is said about them on the USCHO message board - you can also remind them they should thank their lucky stars that all of us 'haters' haven't gone the way of indifference like SO MANY of the UNH fans of the past...

            Since I am clearly uninformed, please explain to how, if Tirone is the top goalie in HE and Umile/Souza have always pushed the right button, UNH is 26-40-11 with two 10th place finishes and two 10th-place rankings in GA the last two seasons. And please do so with out trashing the team's defensemen. They also have parents.
            Last edited by Dan; 04-26-2017, 03:25 PM.
            Live Free or Die!!
            Miami University '03

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            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

              Originally posted by UNH1932 View Post
              Oetinger (sp) gave up as many goals against a weak UNH team as Tirone did at BU, is he an awful goalie too even when he saw half the shots.
              Oh, well one game, head-to-head - that proves it. Mea culpa.

              pssst...in Oetinger's other 38 GP he posted a 1.96 GAA and a .930 SPCT

              ----

              If I'm wrong and the staff has scrimmaged in practice everyday giving Clark a chance to outshine Tirone, and he just stinks. Please share. If you have evidence that Tirone is better than I think he is - or has been more productive. Please share. Me evaluating his play - watching every night (including in person at least twice every season he's played at UNH despite living thousands of miles away) and looking deep into the statistics - doesn't mean I hate him. It means I'm objective.
              Last edited by Dan; 04-26-2017, 03:55 PM.
              Live Free or Die!!
              Miami University '03

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              • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

                Originally posted by UNH1932 View Post
                EJ thanks for your evaluation (I appreciate you toning down from your regular rants)
                Don't mention it chief, I'm all about harmony and meeting people half way.
                I went home with a waitress the way I always do
                How was I to know she was with the russians, too?

                Comment


                • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

                  Originally posted by Dan View Post
                  C'mon Chuck - Sean's 'treatise" stated that while goalie pads are larger than when YOU started watching hockey, they are smaller than the pads of 20 years ago (FYI, nets were the same size). He then backed it up with facts. I trust the facts a whole lot more than what you and your eyes want the truth to be. Unless you think everyone is cheating? Twenty years ago elite college teams were scoring well over 4.00 GPG. They aren't now and the rule book has slimmed down the pads you think are responsible. Goalies themselves are bigger - and despite being bigger, they are every bit as athletic. Which makes it harder to score. That's just the truth. Find me some evidence that rules are allowing for bigger pads than in the mid-90s or just admit that goal scoring is down for other reasons, because clinging to a myth because you want it to be the truth (and having understood the evidence all along)? SAD!
                  But the rule book has literally quadrupled in size of the regulations which purport to limit the size of the goalie's equipment. Funny, you were a big "eyeball test" guy when analyzing Tirone's performances in pregame warm-ups. But when I invite you to show me some video evidence to prove today's Michelin Men goalies are no different than back in the day, you duck it ('cuz it doesn't exist) and go all chapter and verse. That's fine. The growth of the rulebook in that area tells its own tale, and if you want to pretend it doesn't, then okey-dokey.

                  Originally posted by Dan View Post
                  You prefer goal scoring - there's nothing wrong with that - and if you still want to complain than argue the real reasons scoring is down. Like much more physical play/contact as outlined by EJ. You can still hate the game today. The reality is you are get off my lawn guy and you prefer sports the way they were when you were growing up. If one less GPG, walks or more passing ruins them for you, then I truly feel for you. That is a legitimate bummer, because sports are terrific today.
                  Actually, it's funny, but I'm really not a "run up the goal scoring" or scoring of any kind in any sport kind of person. I'm all for balance of offense and defense, and (not that you care) if you read any of my comments on other sports on here from time to time, I think you'll see that. Heck, my other favorite sport is one where scoring is even lower than it is nowadays in hockey, and I'm not on here or anywhere else talking about tinkering with the offsides law (oops - "rule" - don't want to offend you) in that sport.

                  Let's put it this way. Hockey is a fantastic sport because of its speed, skill and athleticism ... well, kind of when it comes to just one position out there, anyway. Athleticism of goalies is sacrificed these days in favor of raw size, simple technique, and filling as much of the goal as possible. I understand that's the current reality ... but it doesn't mean I have to like it. If the goalies are bigger, better protected, and the technology allows their protection to be lighter and more flexible ... is it a crime to suggest the solution is to make the goal just a little bit bigger? Y'know, just to force them to play on their skates (like everyone else), and not on their pads?? Just sayin' ...
                  Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                  Montreal Expos Forever ...

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                  • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

                    Its really simple Chuck - the rule book has 'quadrupled' because goalie pads were inching larger and larger and now that problem has been addressed.

                    In the same vein, surely you can understand the difference between using the eye test to evaluate whats happening right in front of oneself (in addition to objective statistics) versus comparing what one thinks they see across the entire sport of hockey and compared with ones' minds-eye or varying photographs of different eras when we HAVE objective measures. I can see why you'd fail to see the distinction, when your sole goal is to hang on to beliefs and win an argument...

                    Go ahead and google images of Conklin, Matile and Ayers during their time at UNH. Compare them to Tirone, Clark and DeSmith. If you're honest with yourself you'll see there's very little difference (I know what you really wanted to see are images of goalies from the 80's - that was never what was being debated and thats why you didn't get them). I'm sure you'll come back with thoughts on how the images show pads that appear to be a little bigger here or there - despite the rule book indicating pads should be, and are, actually smaller today. The fact is pads are essentially the same between the two eras. With slightly smaller pads today, goal scoring is still way down.

                    Even as recently as when Mike Ayers led UNH to the 2003 title game, goals were scored at a MUCH higher clip. With the top teams scoring well over 4 GPG - including CC leading the way at 4.52 (this season - PSU led the nation, nearly half a goal behind). Clarkson finished last in the country scoring 2.74 goals per game in 2003 - which would have placed them in the middle of the pack at 35 today (Well ahead of last-place Anchorage at 1.74). Pads simply are not the problem.

                    Sure goalies themselves are bigger - humans are bigger - but they are also vastly superior skaters and athletes today than they were then. Because they are bigger its harder to spot athleticism and you labeling them as space fillers is just not correct. Because Clark is not an athlete does not mean Oetinger and Woll, etc are not supreme athletic talents. They are. They challenge shooters, they play the butterfly, they skate and recover and they ARE athletic. Are you willing to institute rule changes that limit the size of goaltenders themselves? Are you ready to tell them they are not allowed to innovate and find new ways to be more effective?

                    You must be under 6-0, stand up and attempt to kick out shots while falling on your rear-end (like the good old days!) and can only go to the ice to swim on your back like the dominator! You can't leave the blue paint to cut down angles if you are good enough to recover!

                    I hope not, because thats ridiculous. Goalies are better. Now forwards need to get better.

                    The larger - and real - reason scoring is down is defensive systems are much less passive and much more aggressive, teams are more physical and much more creative at taking away space. Today, traps are being employed by teams with tons of talent and skating ability (UML) and not limited to teams that simply couldn't compete (early UMass). EVERYONE - even high-flying Dick Umile has done a 180 - is focusing on defense first. Better athletes and more skilled hockey players are also playing the defensive position. Shots are being blocked at an extremely high rate today. Talent is distributed much more evenly across college hockey. Hockey, just as soccer always has - with its massive onion bags - is seeing lower scoring due to how the game is played in front of the goal not in the goal or because of the goal...

                    You advocate for bigger nets (I'd like to see every rink be an Olympic surface) - that is fine, but you'll be able to make a much better case when you actually understand the problems that are leading to lower goal scoring, as opposed to pushing a false narrative...

                    But if you prefer to yell at the clouds on a clear skies, sunny afternoon oblivious to the fact that you're sitting under a shady tree...knock yourself out. This time you can have the last word...
                    Last edited by Dan; 04-27-2017, 11:33 AM.
                    Live Free or Die!!
                    Miami University '03

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                    • Originally posted by Aerman View Post
                      Not a captain, but my recollection is Flaishans left with a 4.0 double major.
                      Nice article about Flashians in the latest issue of the alumni magazine

                      Comment


                      • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

                        A couple of for the records:

                        I think scoring is more or less fine. I’d rather see a 5-3 or 4-2 game than 8-7. A couple of those a year are fine but they’re a little bit like eating candy. When you think about it, 4-2 is kind of like 28-14 or even 31-17 in football, nothing wrong with that. You won’t find 2 more responsible teams defensively than Boston and Ottawa and that series had plenty of excitement.

                        Goalie pads have gotten bigger, it’s just a fact – that includes pants, jerseys, and chest protectors, not just leg pads and gloves. And they're lighter.

                        Goalies have gotten bigger, it’s just a fact – and they’re better athletes, not just the youngest/smallest/worst kid anymore. And they're stronger.

                        Goalie training has gotten much better, for starters, it exists now, maybe more accurately it exists for everyone now, you can’t go into a rink without seeing it going on. Goalies now work smarter not harder. You start paying people millions of dollars to do something and someone is going to start paying attention to what works and refining techniques toward that. Using the butterfly to take away low shots and being tall to take away high shots is the most natural thing in the world. There would something wrong with coaches and goalies if they weren’t doing that. Goalie coaching, if it existed, was amateur hour for too long, now it's not.

                        Shooting training has gotten much better, for starters, it exists now, maybe more accurately it exists for everyone now, you can’t go into a rink without seeing it going on - shooters have gotten much better. Much better. It’s ridiculous how well even little kids can shoot the puck now. The advances in technique and sticks over the past 15(?) years have been incredible.

                        Please don’t change the size of the goal. I think I would hate that.

                        Please do mandate 200X100 rinks. THERE is the real problem with hockey today – the same space that was there 50 years ago but with guys half again as big and twice as fast, not to mention the “advancements” in coaching that have given us locked down neutral zones.
                        I went home with a waitress the way I always do
                        How was I to know she was with the russians, too?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Dan View Post
                          As for your arguments Chuck - shouldn't it tell you something when everytime you defend Tirone you have to resort to how boring hockey is today with all these big slobs sliding post to post and (actually) keeping pucks out of the net? If you think hockey would be better off with Tirone types on every team - thats up to you. But, when the goal is to STOP the puck, Tirone is just not as good as many others.

                          And sticking with the theme of reality/facts of the larger pads you hate. I've been saving this post for you...



                          Finally, the idea that only small goalies are athletic is just incorrect. Its the same thought process that leads UNH fans to believe Steve Moses is just some bastion of athletic ability and JVR loafs up and down the ice. Just because a player/goalie is small and makes it look difficult does not - in any way - mean that player is necessarily more athletic...
                          Why are we debating the merits of Danny Tirone? I've watched the guy for pretty much his whole career at UNH. Remember that word "watched" as in seeing with your own eyes. The biggest problem with the guy is that he is totally dependent on his so-called athleticism to bail him out. That's why I have seen him out on one side of the crease while the play is on the other. It's why I have seen him flopped on the ice like a beached whale. And it's probably why he's not ready when someone rips a shot off from the high slot. Look, the guy can be spectacular, coming out of nowhere to make an OMG save. But the reason he has these is because he is out of position. The best goalies are the boring ones, who never seem to be in the wrong place. Once in awhile, like Tim Thomas in 2011 you, can make it work, but not for long. My biggest issue with the kid is not him but his coaches. When Lassonde was the goalie coach, there was a consistency. He even made Brian LaRochellle functional. Doesn't seem to be anybody now who can make a palatable chicken salad, if you get my drift. Just expect more of the same.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
                            Why are we debating the merits of Danny Tirone? I've watched the guy for pretty much his whole career at UNH. Remember that word "watched" as in seeing with your own eyes. The biggest problem with the guy is that he is totally dependent on his so-called athleticism to bail him out. That's why I have seen him out on one side of the crease while the play is on the other. It's why I have seen him flopped on the ice like a beached whale. And it's probably why he's not ready when someone rips a shot off from the high slot. Look, the guy can be spectacular, coming out of nowhere to make an OMG save. But the reason he has these is because he is out of position. The best goalies are the boring ones, who never seem to be in the wrong place. Once in awhile, like Tim Thomas in 2011 you, can make it work, but not for long. My biggest issue with the kid is not him but his coaches. When Lassonde was the goalie coach, there was a consistency. He even made Brian LaRochellle functional. Doesn't seem to be anybody now who can make a palatable chicken salad, if you get my drift. Just expect more of the same.
                            How can you say these things? Haven't you learned he has family and friends... If his coach thinks he is good he must be... We can not question as we aren't goalies and don't coach...

                            If you question anything you aren't a fan, a season ticket holder or a member of the friends.

                            We must be lemmings.
                            "Now Progress Takes Away What Forever Took To Find" Dave Matthews Band, The Dreaming Tree

                            Comment


                            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

                              Originally posted by UNH1932 View Post
                              EJ thanks for your evaluation (I appreciate you toning down from your regular rants) and JB I do not know you and just come to 104 and you can find me there every game and if you travel on the road, you will see me there as well. I do not know much about hockey as you all apparently do but others see Danny as better than you state. He won 14 games in one semester getting us to the garden his freshmen year. He lost a few very good defensemen and has not won as many games as the first year. Does this mean he is much worse now. Come to the games and Friends of Hockey gents and be men and go face to face with Umile and the players with your ideas and what would make the team better. Most of you are rarely or ever at the Whit. I know Snively 65 and a few others do go to some games and I appreciate most of your enthusiasm for the team. I am just tired and (I am sure Danny's mother and father are tired as well) of you all bashing this kid who has given his heart and soul to our team. I get many of you think he is below average but most who know anything about the game of hockey (and that is not me just like it is not most of you). I guess we can agree to disagree and I am open for competition with Robinson and Clark and I only want UNH to be better. I hope we can all agree that the team is heading in the right direction and recruiting has been very good over the past year. Most everyone that is a season ticket holder or involved at UNH knows who I am. When I retire, I will be like Chuck and Greg and use my real name. Hopefully I have quite a few years before this happens. Stay positive please and maybe Dryden could get a save percentage higher than Danny with UNH defense but I do believe you are not being fair in your evaluation of Tirone. Oetinger (sp) gave up as many goals against a weak UNH team as Tirone did at BU, is he an awful goalie too even when he saw half the shots.
                              There is a huge difference between bashing and pointing out that the results of the last two seasons with DT in the net are not worthy of an uncontested position as the top starter. I am a newer STH who goes to many road games as well and can tell you that in person and in stats DT is a below average goaltender. Name me any of the Hockey East goaltenders that you saw at the Whit this year that you truly feel DT is better than (I'll give you Colin Delia and Rob McGovern). Of the HE goaltenders I saw last year he is in the bottom half (or below average). Is he the best goaltender on this team, quite possibly, but without anyone else getting a chance how can you say for sure? I understand your point that the defense in front of him has not been helpful to the cause over these last two seasons as well. The question becomes, how will he do with a group of skilled but green defenders in front of him? I hope he does well, I have my reservations as do many others on this board.

                              Your problem comes in where you think that questioning his worthiness to be given the #1 goaltender position is bashing/hating on him personally. Admittedly, I am not a coach or a goaltender so I guess my observation and opinions do not count any more than any of the others on this board. I will say DT has some great games and can have decent stretches where he is a top end goaltender who can steal a game for this team. I do not think anyone on this board denies that. On the flip side, I have lost count of how many games that his goaltending style has let in some garbage goal that costs the team momentum within a game or the game itself. Putting the 'A' on his chest pretty much closed the book on whether Clark/Robinson will have any opportunity to unseat him this year short of a total meltdown (see 10/16/2015 thru 11/7/2015).

                              Questioning decisions is not due to a lack of support for anyone in particular (in this case DT). UNH hockey is not all sunshine and rainbows as you paint the picture to be, hopefully the program is on the rise with the new blood both on the bench and behind it (after the last stand for the NRN).
                              Last edited by deltabravo62; 04-27-2017, 10:33 PM.

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                              • Originally posted by deltabravo62 View Post
                                There is a huge difference between bashing and pointing out that the results of the last two seasons with DT in the net are not worthy of an uncontested position as the top starter. I am a newer STH who goes to many road games as well and can tell you that in person and in stats DT is a below average goaltender. Name me any of the Hockey East goaltenders that you saw at the Whit this year that you truly feel DT is better than (I'll give you Colin Delia and Rob McGovern). Of the HE goaltenders I saw last year he is in the bottom half (or below average). Is he the best goaltender on this team, quite possibly, but without anyone else getting a chance how can you say for sure? I understand your point that the defense in front of him has not been helpful to the cause over these last two seasons as well. The question becomes, how will he do with a group of skilled but green defenders in front of him? I hope he does well, I have my reservations as do many others on this board.

                                Your problem comes in where you think that questioning his worthiness to be given the #1 goaltender position is bashing/hating on him personally. Admittedly, I am not a coach or a goaltender so I guess my observation and opinions do not count any more than any of the others on this board. I will say DT has some great games and can have decent stretches where he is a top end goaltender who can steal a game for this team. I do not think anyone on this board denies that. On the flip side, I have lost count of how many games that his goaltending style has let in some garbage goal that costs the team momentum within a game or the game itself. Putting the 'A' on his chest pretty much closed the book on whether Clark/Robinson will have any opportunity to unseat him this year short of a total meltdown (see 10/16/2015 thru 11/7/2015).

                                Questioning decisions is not due to a lack of support for anyone in particular (in this case DT). UNH hockey is not all sunshine and rainbows as you paint the picture to be, hopefully the program is on the rise with the new blood both on the bench and behind it (after the last stand for the NRN).
                                Well said, DB. Neither am I a former goalie or coach, but I know what I see on the ice (or, at least I think that I know what I see on the ice, having followed the team since the late 1950s). I am not a season ticket holder, as the commute for Friday games is nearly impossible for me. But, I attended 11 UNH games (mix of home and away) and 11 Bentley games (one of those shared :-) ) this past season, and saw a few more on TV. And, I agree that not having a real competition for all positions to determine ice time is insane, and antithetical to the NRN quest, if that is even a real thing, which I am beginning to doubt. :-)

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