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Thread: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidSec17 View Post
    What gets me is this hire contradicts what McElroy said after Appert was fired.

    He said winning program needs consistency, and I remember reading in the TU that he said Apperts body of work wasn't enough to keep him. This doesn't really describe Coach Smiths body of work. 60 games below .500(I dont have the exact number with me)is not a strong body of work nor was his 12 years at Canisius consistent.
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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    Let me see if I have this one correct. I was incorrect last time when I mentioned it was down to Ben and Riga.

    1. As near as I can tell so far Smith hasnít made any mistakes yet at RPI, has he?

    2. Since Atlantic Hockey isnít the conference top end recruits want to end up in how would anyone know if Smith is capable of grabbing top end players from the US and Canada to compete in the ECAC?

    3. Since he hasnít even named his staff is it a foregone conclusion that if he names a none alumnus AC that that would be a big mistake for some?

    4. Does a new HC at RPI even get a chance to prove his worth before all the experts pipe in?

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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidSec17 View Post
    What gets me is this hire contradicts what McElroy said after Appert was fired.

    He said winning program needs consistency, and I remember reading in the TU that he said Apperts body of work wasn't enough to keep him. This doesn't really describe Coach Smiths body of work. 60 games below .500(I dont have the exact number with me)is not a strong body of work nor was his 12 years at Canisius consistent.
    For anyone who was at the "pizza with the players" party, we all stood there and listened to McElroy list off what they were looking for in the new coach. 1. Someone who knows what it is to be a player and student at RPI. 2. Someone who knows the area. 3. Someone who understands the history of the program.

    As I listened, it sounded more and more as though he was listing qualities of Barr. I know that nothing will change and Smith is going to be behind the bench in October, but everything I read on here and hear from people VERY close to the situation makes it sound like something sketchy went down. If Smith can win with Appert's team, we all win. If 3 years passes and we've done nothing but lose, there needs to be another buyout and a search done with hockey people involved.

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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Baer View Post
    I agree with that. Smith could try to convince him that RPI is still the best place for him, but it would be coup for him if he could do that. He would almost be starting from scratch.
    Another thing to consider is trying to have Smith poach recruits from Canisius, Michigan State, UNO along with the Ivies, Michigan State and UNO will probably be tough as most of those commitments are not realistic but hey it shouldn't hurt to try when you have limited options. You would think the new challenge would spark ambition from the new staff and they'll try to contact as many recruits as they can that are on the open market and to be quite honest there are not that many. Derek Hamelin who spent this past season in Omaha of the USHL would be a realistic option along with Chayse Primeau who is a big power forward but needs to fill into his frame, Primeau has quite the family background and should only get better, they were both Canisius commitments. Heck even Niagara ended up with a commitment from Zach Herrmann who is from Lancaster, he started the year with Omaha but struggled and then came into his own for Odessa in the NAHL.

    One thing I find odd is that with the 5 year contract Smith will need to get the ball rolling quickly and that's not exactly easy to do with over half of the kids in the 18-19 class already being committed, by the time he is into his 5th season it will be the first year he had the proper time to recruit and he has hand picked his guys. Coaches have established relationships for years with these guys and their families, while he may have run into a few here and there while at Canisius as HC he will be chasing higher quality recruits now and he is already behind just from being the new guy on the block.
    Last edited by techtodenver; 04-04-2017 at 12:58 PM. Reason: Added Zac Herrmann

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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Section5forLife View Post
    For anyone who was at the "pizza with the players" party, we all stood there and listened to McElroy list off what they were looking for in the new coach. 1. Someone who knows what it is to be a player and student at RPI. 2. Someone who knows the area. 3. Someone who understands the history of the program.

    As I listened, it sounded more and more as though he was listing qualities of Barr. I know that nothing will change and Smith is going to be behind the bench in October, but everything I read on here and hear from people VERY close to the situation makes it sound like something sketchy went down. If Smith can win with Appert's team, we all win. If 3 years passes and we've done nothing but lose, there needs to be another buyout and a search done with hockey people involved.
    If you believe this is true then it may be as simple as Barr was given an offer and he said no for some reason.

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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradz View Post
    Let me see if I have this one correct. I was incorrect last time when I mentioned it was down to Ben and Riga.

    1. As near as I can tell so far Smith hasnít made any mistakes yet at RPI, has he?

    2. Since Atlantic Hockey isnít the conference top end recruits want to end up in how would anyone know if Smith is capable of grabbing top end players from the US and Canada to compete in the ECAC?

    3. Since he hasnít even named his staff is it a foregone conclusion that if he names a none alumnus AC that that would be a big mistake for some?

    4. Does a new HC at RPI even get a chance to prove his worth before all the experts pipe in?
    Heck, Canisius doesn't really even have a rink to exclusively call home, yes? Weren't they previously sharing with Buffalo State? Obviously it's sort of the same deal with the Harborcenter, but at least it doesn't seem like they're constantly second banana in the schedule. The new coach (assuming he will be the new coach) already has a home rink, along with 5 more scholarships, as extra bargaining chips. And why shouldn't he bring in ACs of his choosing? Who knows, we may have hired a clutch-and-grab coach that doesn't fit with the previous up-tempo style.

    People will pass judgement the second they hear something. I'm looking forward to October.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I'm not happy about it either, but Flag is correct (cue the Twilight Zone music!).
    Quote Originally Posted by French Rage View Post
    Ahh crap I agree exactly with what FlagDude said.
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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    barr wanted the job, something didn't go right or he was lowballed,
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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    I wonder a few things
    1- he will want his own goalies I imagine
    2- did the AD say that graham and vines need to stay and he would allow that
    3- they saved money on the hire as another poster said to offset apperts buy out and the money for the stupid search for a coach
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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    Heck, Canisius doesn't really even have a rink to exclusively call home, yes? Weren't they previously sharing with Buffalo State? Obviously it's sort of the same deal with the Harborcenter, but at least it doesn't seem like they're constantly second banana in the schedule. The new coach (assuming he will be the new coach) already has a home rink, along with 5 more scholarships, as extra bargaining chips. And why shouldn't he bring in ACs of his choosing? Who knows, we may have hired a clutch-and-grab coach that doesn't fit with the previous up-tempo style.

    People will pass judgement the second they hear something. I'm looking forward to October.

    Exactly! Tough to convince top end kids to go AHC as opposed to ECAC, and regardless of what some might think about Houston Fieldhouse it has the right atmosphere to sell it. Iím sure Smith will be getting a lot of input this weekend as far as ACs are concerned, hope he picks one or two that can really relate to the players as well as sell. I could care less if they have D-I coaching experience, or are alumni as long as they can bring home the bacon.

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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradz View Post
    Exactly! Tough to convince top end kids to go AHC as opposed to ECAC, and regardless of what some might think about Houston Fieldhouse it has the right atmosphere to sell it. Iím sure Smith will be getting a lot of input this weekend as far as ACs are concerned, hope he picks one or two that can really relate to the players as well as sell. I could care less if they have D-I coaching experience, or are alumni as long as they can bring home the bacon.
    I couldn't care less if the new ACs have D-I experience, the questions are is can they coach and can they recruit? Recruiting is almost the same anywhere. You have to evaluate the players as to how well they play and fit into your system, and then you have to convince them to come over any other offers. You also have to husband the 18 allotted scholarships. It doesn't make sense to offer a full scholarship to a player who will rarely dress, but it probably will be necessary for a potential first-line player. Those 18 scholarships have to be spread out over a roster in the upper 20's. When Seth Appert was hired, he convinced RPI to allow hockey players to compete for other scholarship money. It previously was the school policy that hockey players could not get other money. So now we typically have one or two minority students on the roster for example.

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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    Just to set the record straight, Ben Barr was not offered the job. If it was offered , he certainly would have accepted it. Ben is one of the best recruiters around and he would have turned
    the RPI program into a winner. For the life of me I can't understand why they would hire a coach with the loosing record.........

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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by rvd5star69 View Post
    I wonder a few things
    1- he will want his own goalies I imagine
    2- did the AD say that graham and vines need to stay and he would allow that
    3- they saved money on the hire as another poster said to offset apperts buy out and the money for the stupid search for a coach
    I would not be surprised if #3 played a big factor. We're still paying Appert for 4 more seasons, and you know SAJ's going to give herself another huge raise. I know a bunch of people will complain about getting what you pay for, but at the end of the day, RPI is still a business, and all revenue and expenses must be taken into account.
    It was an honor to present your colors, RPI. Let's Go 'TUTE!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I'm not happy about it either, but Flag is correct (cue the Twilight Zone music!).
    Quote Originally Posted by French Rage View Post
    Ahh crap I agree exactly with what FlagDude said.
    Quote Originally Posted by jericho on rpitv's chat
    I never thought I would say this, but you are right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    And yet, even if Flaggy is complete tinfoil hat, every day it looks closer and closer to the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    So flaggy: you win.

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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyBill View Post
    Just to set the record straight, Ben Barr was not offered the job. If it was offered , he certainly would have accepted it. Ben is one of the best recruiters around and he would have turned
    the RPI program into a winner. For the life of me I can't understand why they would hire a coach with the loosing record.........
    Why would it be a given that he would have accepted if it was offered? He might have considered an offer too low, or something else might have made it a no-go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    I would not be surprised if #3 played a big factor. We're still paying Appert for 4 more seasons, and you know SAJ's going to give herself another huge raise. I know a bunch of people will complain about getting what you pay for, but at the end of the day, RPI is still a business, and all revenue and expenses must be taken into account.
    A question we will never have answered for us, unfortunately.

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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Baer View Post
    I couldn't care less if the new ACs have D-I experience, the questions are is can they coach and can they recruit? Recruiting is almost the same anywhere. You have to evaluate the players as to how well they play and fit into your system, and then you have to convince them to come over any other offers. You also have to husband the 18 allotted scholarships. It doesn't make sense to offer a full scholarship to a player who will rarely dress, but it probably will be necessary for a potential first-line player. Those 18 scholarships have to be spread out over a roster in the upper 20's. When Seth Appert was hired, he convinced RPI to allow hockey players to compete for other scholarship money. It previously was the school policy that hockey players could not get other money. So now we typically have one or two minority students on the roster for example.
    In the past maybe, but times have changed. They are committing kids so young these days that an AC's ability to project development may be more important in the long run than simply identification and evaluation, even Ralph Baer can walk into a barn and pick the top 15 year olds on each team, but can he predict if they will develop into D-I players, and beyond that, can he keep from spilling his coffee on Mum's new white carpet when she tells him she used to date an Engineer and was glad she didn't marry him because driving a train is too stressful?

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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradz View Post
    In the past maybe, but times have changed. They are committing kids so young these days that an AC's ability to project development may be more important in the long run than simply identification and evaluation, even Ralph Baer can walk into a barn and pick the top 15 year olds on each team, but can he predict if they will develop into D-I players, and beyond that, can he keep from spilling his coffee on Mum's new white carpet when she tells him she used to date an Engineer and was glad she didn't marry him because driving a train is too stressful?
    Good point about having to project several years into the future.

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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    tech to denver do you know where congers other interest is from

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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Baer View Post
    Why would it be a given that he would have accepted if it was offered? He might have considered an offer too low, or something else might have made it a no-go.
    Because I know Ben . Also, While Ben has been at UMass only one season, their next years incoming freshman recruits are ranked #1 in college.

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    Re: RPI 2017 Off-Season: We March 4th into the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyBill View Post
    Because I know Ben . Also, While Ben has been at UMass only one season, their next years incoming freshman recruits are ranked #1 in college.
    The only ranking of recruiting classes which I have seen is by Neutral Zone https://www.neutralzone.net/mens/. UMass is not in the top ten. If you click on that you can see the preliminary top 5 for several years in the future. No UMass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyBill View Post
    Because I know Ben . Also, While Ben has been at UMass only one season, their next years incoming freshman recruits are ranked #1 in college.
    We missed the boat on this one. HockeyBill is 100% correct. We will watch from afar as Ben Barr builds and leads another program (not RPI) to great success.

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