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  • Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

    senior F.B.I. officials are said to be worried that the notion of a court-approved wiretap will raise the public’s expectations that the federal authorities have significant evidence implicating the Trump campaign in colluding with Russia’s efforts to disrupt the presidential election.
    That's the amazing part of this. For the president to get a wiretap he needs to demonstrate evidence to the FISA court, so if Trump is to be believed he is saying "I'm guilty enough for a court to agree to wiretap me!"

    If the GOP came down on Trump like a ton of bricks to protect the rule of law, they'd be heroes and they'd even get what they want: a competent hatchet man (Pence) in the Oval. But they are so terrified of the ignorant, vicious animals they've unleashed that they won't do it.

    If the Libertarians had a competent leadership they could supplant the GOP as a major party in six months.
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    • Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

      Now, rufus, you just hypothesized an ongoing investigation. Isn't that "excuse making" as well?

      But, I won't call it that. I will acknowledge it as a real possibility. But, in that case, the FBI has a leak (because the knowledge of the tap in an ongoing investigation shouldn't have gotten out).
      The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

      North Dakota Hockey:

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      • Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

        Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
        No president has ever been removed from office. Two have been impeached.
        Correct. And impeachment does NOT mean removal from office. Actually had to explain that to someone who believed that Clinton was never impeached. Yeah.
        Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
        Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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        • Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

          The libertarians are just republicans rebranded. It's like when Comcast started calling themselves Xfinity.

          The libertarian friends I know aren't up in arms about anything except that Sessions may be going after their precious weed. They're just stoner washouts from the Reublican party who don't care as long as they get theirs. It's a useless movement.
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          May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
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          • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            ...so if Trump is to be believed he is saying "I'm guilty enough for a court to agree to wiretap me!"
            Either Trump knows they have nothing (meaning he's clean and the tap proves the witchhunt meme he's pushing) or this is the most power laden game of chicken in American history.
            The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

            North Dakota Hockey:

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            • Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

              Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
              Either Trump knows they have nothing (meaning he's clean and the tap proves the witchhunt meme he's pushing) or this is the most power laden game of chicken in American history.
              You actually, and scarily, might be onto something....
              Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
              Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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              • Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

                I could see a hypothetical scenario (game of chicken) where DOJ has something, but something they shouldn't have: If they expose it they nail Trump but show that they themselves break the law and the integrity of the FBI and DOJ is gone forever. If they don't Trump wins.

                So, in that scenario, Trump doesn't fold, he calls, and forces the other side to either show their (dealt from the bottom) cards or fold.
                The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                North Dakota Hockey:

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                • Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

                  Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                  The libertarians are just republicans rebranded. It's like when Comcast started calling themselves Xfinity.

                  The libertarian friends I know aren't up in arms about anything except that Sessions may be going after their precious weed. They're just stoner washouts from the Reublican party who don't care as long as they get theirs. It's a useless movement.
                  There used to be real Libertarians out there. The Koch wing of plutocrats using libertarian language just to destroy government regulation of their industry was always a significant minority within the party -- the brothers actually co-founded the party -- but there was a majority of principled minarchists who sincerely believed that the free market would produce such a surplus that a nation of quadrillionaires would also be a nation without poverty. They were ignorant of history, economics, and human nature, but they were honest. It was a very attractive philosophy for 20-something male elites with no family responsibilities and no contact with real human beings outside their own narrow circle of fellow elites. It felt refreshingly true, and it had the great virtue of every ideology: it swept away the complexities of reality and replaced them with abstract, semantic-logical rational constructions. The greatest minds of the movement, Cato and the Austrians, explicitly stated that checking their assumptions against empirical data was pointless because they were logically airtight and thus had to be true. Not surprisingly, second tier engineers and mathematicians ate it up.

                  I'm sure untold oceans of these types still exist because we churn out thousands of them on our academic conveyor belts every year. But they certainly no longer seem to be moving into the Libertarian party, or even the libertarian movement. You're right that the party has been purged and is now just a handful of cynical plutes and their many brainwashed pseudo-meritocratic naifs paving the road to their own serfdom.

                  But it wasn't always so.
                  Last edited by Kepler; 03-05-2017, 05:11 PM.
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                  • Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

                    Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
                    I could see a hypothetical scenario (game of chicken) where DOJ has something, but something they shouldn't have: If they expose it they nail Trump but show that they themselves break the law and the integrity of the FBI and DOJ is gone forever. If they don't Trump wins.

                    So, in that scenario, Trump doesn't fold, he calls, and forces the other side to either show their (dealt from the bottom) cards or fold.
                    The legalese in such cases AND the fact that one is going after the President of the US...that's the scary part; you have to be SURE, CORRECT, AND LEGAL to have it done.
                    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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                    • Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

                      This may shed some light on the events.

                      https://www.emptywheel.net/2017/03/0...otus-go-crazy/
                      What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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                      • Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

                        IF TRUMP TOWER WAS WIRETAPPED, TRUMP CAN DECLASSIFY THAT RIGHT NOW

                        According to a report in the BBC, citing unnamed sources, a joint government task force was formed in spring of 2016 to look into an intelligence report from a foreign government that Russian money was somehow coming into the U.S. presidential race. In June the Department of Justice, part of the task force, asked the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court for a warrant to intercept electronic communications by two Russian banks (presumably involving communications with Americans, or else no warrant would be needed).

                        However, the BBC’s report says, the FISA court turned the application down, something it almost never does. The Justice Department then asked again in July with a more narrowly drawn request, which was again turned down. Justice then made a third request for a warrant on October 15, which was granted.

                        None of this involves wiretapping Trump Tower. However, it is possible that Trump picked that up from a Breitbart article that in turn relied on a Heat Street piece that claimed the warrant was issued because of evidence of links between a “private server in Donald Trump’s Trump Tower” and a Russian bank. In fact, the server in question, set up by a marketing company hired by Trump, was physically located in Philadelphia.

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                        • Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

                          Trump’s Wiretapping Claim Based on Warrants Granted to FBI

                          Last November, former British MP and openly anti-Trump journalist Louise Mensch reported that the FBI had succeeded in its second request for a FISA warrant, which was later confirmed by the BBC.

                          Such a warrant would only have been granted if the FBI—not the Obama administration—was able to convince a judge that the Trump campaign had credible links to a foreign power.

                          The key distinction is that this was an FBI investigation, not an order from the White House itself. Commenting on this morning’s tweets, an Obama spokesman told the New York Times that “no White House official ever interfered with any independent investigation led by the Department of Justice.” FBI Director James Comey downplayed the existence of such an investigation at the time, perhaps explaining Trump's having just learned about the efforts.

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                          • Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

                            If the Feds Did Wiretap Trump Tower, It’s Not Obama Who Should Worry

                            That story, “Mark Levin to Congress: Investigate Obama’s ‘Silent Coup’ Vs. Trump,” rehashes comments the titular conservative radio host made Thursday equating the previously reported FISA warrant with a “police state,” and accuses Obama of a politically motivated, covert attempt to undermine Trump and his associates.

                            It’s unclear just what prompted Levin’s rant, or why Trump glommed onto it. Although no one has confirmed a FISA investigation, or wiretaps in Trump Tower, several news outlets have reported the former’s existence. The most detailed account thus far, from the BBC in January, provided a timeline: The Justice Department sought a FISA warrant in June to intercept communications from two Russian banks suspected of facilitating donations to the Trump campaign. The judge reportedly rejected the warrant, as well as a narrower version sought in July. A new judge granted the order in mid-October, according to the BBC.

                            None of this necessarily makes Trump’s allegations true. Even if a FISA warrant exists, it does not mean Trump Tower is tapped or that Trump specifically is the target. Further complicating things, the existence of a wiretap would not necessarily confirm the existence of a FISA warrant. Almost half of the building’s 58 floors are dedicated to commercial and office space, and any one of them—not to mention the building’s residents—could be the target of an investigation unrelated to international espionage or election tampering.

                            “If he has evidence that he was wiretapped without a proper FISA order being sought, that would be a huge scandal, and he should produce whatever evidence he’s got,” says Sanchez. “It’s a pretty serious claim, and it’s striking he would make it without anything solid to back it up.”

                            Republican Senator Ben Sasse called on the president to clarify his claims, stating that “we are in the midst of a civilization-warping crisis of public trust.” Obama spokesperson Kevin Lewis strongly denied extra-judicial surveillance of any US citizens to Politico in response to the claims..
                            If nothing else, Trump’s tweets show he doesn’t understand how the FISA system works. If he did, he may have limited himself to tweeting about Arnold Schwartzenegger quitting The Apprentice this morning.

                            “While the order would have been requested by some part of the executive branch, Obama can’t order anything. Nor can Trump,” says former NSA lawyer April Doss, who stresses that her comments are based only on public information. “The order has to come from the court, and the court operates independently.”
                            Just stop.

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                            • Re: POTUS 45.6 - Russia Is Just A Witch Hunt

                              Originally posted by rufus View Post
                              This may shed some light on the events.

                              https://www.emptywheel.net/2017/03/0...otus-go-crazy/
                              The concept of the President’s Daily Conspiracy is perfect. I imagine Bannon showing him a cartoon slideshow every morning over eggs and bacon. Just giving the old fool a little booster shot of inanity to start the day.
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                              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                              • The President cannot order a wiretap lega... never mind.

                                And that WANDH fellow is very smart, too smart, in the real ways of politics, government, and the Presidency. Now I must call G. Gordon Liddy.

                                Signed,
                                Richard M. Nixon
                                Last edited by The Sicatoka; 03-05-2017, 05:53 PM.
                                The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

                                North Dakota Hockey:

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