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2017 Pairwise thread

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  • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
    Does a loss and a tie by North Dakota change the numbers at all?
    How can they tie? Aren't we at a point in the season where it's either win or lose?

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    • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

      Originally posted by Scarlet View Post
      How can they tie? Aren't we at a point in the season where it's either win or lose?
      NCHC has a third place game, which can end in a tie.

      r

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      • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

        Originally posted by Scarlet View Post
        How can they tie? Aren't we at a point in the season where it's either win or lose?
        Question for pairwise people. In postseason tournaments with continuous OT isn't the game still considered a tie if it is scoreless after 5 min for pairwise purposes? I feel like for the sake of fairness that must be true, but I haven't seen it discussed anywhere.
        BS UMass Lowell 2015
        PhD Georgia Institute of Technology 2020

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        • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

          Originally posted by brassbonanza View Post
          Harvard would only go west to play UND if all three of WMU, DU, and UMD are 1s. If BU or Minnesota finish on the 1 line and UND on the 4, Harvard likely stays east unless it swaps BU and Harvard for attendance purposes.
          What happens to BU if they lose to BC on Friday? I assume BC is out if they lose?

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          • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

            Originally posted by UML Puck Hawk View Post
            Question for pairwise people. In postseason tournaments with continuous OT isn't the game still considered a tie if it is scoreless after 5 min for pairwise purposes? I feel like for the sake of fairness that must be true, but I haven't seen it discussed anywhere.
            Huh? You mean if a game goes into double OT and one team wins it, because neither team scored within the first five minutes of the first OT the game counts as a tie?? That's truly ridiculous if that's the case. Why bother playing OT then?

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            • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

              Originally posted by UML Puck Hawk View Post
              Question for pairwise people. In postseason tournaments with continuous OT isn't the game still considered a tie if it is scoreless after 5 min for pairwise purposes? I feel like for the sake of fairness that must be true, but I haven't seen it discussed anywhere.
              I feel like I would have read that somewhere over the last 15 years or so and I've definitely never heard of that being a thing.

              Originally posted by meauxmo View Post
              What happens to BU if they lose to BC on Friday? I assume BC is out if they lose?
              Jim Dahl's chart has an extremely slim chance they make it in without winning one game this weekend. I've been playing with the predictor and can't find a way to make it happen yet. The big sticking point is that somehow they have to get past Penn State and Ohio State and I can't figure out how to get that to happen.
              Last edited by tape; 03-13-2017, 03:44 PM.

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              • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

                Originally posted by Scarlet View Post
                Huh? You mean if a game goes into double OT and one team wins it, because neither team scored within the first five minutes of the first OT the game counts as a tie?? That's truly ridiculous if that's the case. Why bother playing OT then?
                Because tournaments need a winner. But the Pairwise doesn't?

                Why in the eyes of a computer should the games played this weekend (and any game 3's of series) count more than a game earlier in the season. Seems weird to me to count a win now if it wouldn't have counted two weeks ago...
                BS UMass Lowell 2015
                PhD Georgia Institute of Technology 2020

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                • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

                  Originally posted by UML Puck Hawk View Post
                  Question for pairwise people. In postseason tournaments with continuous OT isn't the game still considered a tie if it is scoreless after 5 min for pairwise purposes? I feel like for the sake of fairness that must be true, but I haven't seen it discussed anywhere.
                  No. In the postseason there are no ties. You could go 7 OT, and the winner is still the winner, including for PWR purposes.

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                  • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

                    Originally posted by Rhett Hot View Post
                    No. In the postseason there are no ties. You could go 7 OT, and the winner is still the winner, including for PWR purposes.
                    Except in consolation games...

                    Can you link to any actual statement which backs this up, because I can't find one anywhere.
                    BS UMass Lowell 2015
                    PhD Georgia Institute of Technology 2020

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                    • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

                      Originally posted by UML Puck Hawk View Post
                      Except in consolation games...

                      Can you link to any actual statement which backs this up, because I can't find one anywhere.
                      Honestly I think your side of the argument is the one that needs positive proof. I don't know how logic suggests that there be a tie for ranking purposes when there is no possibility a given game ends in a tie.

                      I think the reason you haven't seen it discussed anywhere is because that's not how it works.
                      Last edited by tape; 03-13-2017, 03:48 PM.

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                      • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

                        Originally posted by UML Puck Hawk View Post
                        Except in consolation games...

                        Can you link to any actual statement which backs this up, because I can't find one anywhere.
                        "While it is true that most regular season games end after five minutes of overtime, if one team must win to advance to a second round of a tournament, the outcome of the game is official and “counts” for both teams. A team losing 10 minutes into overtime has a loss, just as if it had lost in regulation time. If tournament organizers choose to end the game after five minutes of overtime and play a shootout, then the game is recorded as a tie for NCAA purposes.

                        Read more: http://www.uscho.com/faq/about-ncaa-...#ixzz4bF0CHFHM
                        "

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                        • Originally posted by UML Puck Hawk View Post
                          Question for pairwise people. In postseason tournaments with continuous OT isn't the game still considered a tie if it is scoreless after 5 min for pairwise purposes? I feel like for the sake of fairness that must be true, but I haven't seen it discussed anywhere.
                          No, the format of the game is decided ahead of time and the result is the result.

                          If you choose to play infinite ot then it's either a win or a loss. If you play finite ot (5 min currently) and that period ends in a tie then it's a tie.

                          This goes the same for all in-season tournaments... this misunderstanding has caused issues over the years
                          BS UML '04, PhD UConn '09

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                          • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

                            Originally posted by tape View Post
                            Honestly I think your side of the argument is the one that needs positive proof. I don't know how logic suggests that there be a tie for seeding purposes when there is no possibility a given game ends in a tie.

                            I think the reason you haven't seen it discussed anywhere is because that's not how it works.
                            Ok, so there is no way an NCHC regular season game ends in a tie right? And yet we count that as a tie once 5 minutes is up. Yet, specifically for postseason play we tell the computer the rules of Overtime have changed for determining who does/doesn't get to go to the tournament. I'm not trying to be combative here, I just find the logic to be a bit weird.
                            BS UMass Lowell 2015
                            PhD Georgia Institute of Technology 2020

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                            • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

                              Originally posted by Patman View Post
                              No, the format of the game is decided ahead of time and the result is the result.

                              If you choose to play infinite ot then it's either a win or a loss. If you play finite ot (5 min currently) and that period ends in a tie then it's a tie.

                              This goes the same for all in-season tournaments... this misunderstanding has caused issues over the years
                              Originally posted by Rhett Hot View Post
                              "While it is true that most regular season games end after five minutes of overtime, if one team must win to advance to a second round of a tournament, the outcome of the game is official and “counts” for both teams. A team losing 10 minutes into overtime has a loss, just as if it had lost in regulation time. If tournament organizers choose to end the game after five minutes of overtime and play a shootout, then the game is recorded as a tie for NCAA purposes.

                              Read more: http://www.uscho.com/faq/about-ncaa-...#ixzz4bF0CHFHM
                              "
                              Thanks to both of you, that clears it up, though I still am not sure I like it, but that's fine
                              BS UMass Lowell 2015
                              PhD Georgia Institute of Technology 2020

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                              • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

                                Originally posted by UML Puck Hawk View Post
                                Ok, so there is no way an NCHC regular season game ends in a tie right? And yet we count that as a tie once 5 minutes is up. Yet, specifically for postseason play we tell the computer the rules of Overtime have changed for determining who does/doesn't get to go to the tournament. I'm not trying to be combative here, I just find the logic to be a bit weird.
                                The conference is allowed to do whatever they want for their own purposes after the 5-minute 5x5 OT is finished. The 5-minute 5x5 OT is NCAA mandated and counts for the PWR. The rest is the conference's own business.

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