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Thread: 2017 Pairwise thread

  1. #441
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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
    Correct, to me. UND should not get the advantage of rabid home fans filling the building when they are not the highest seed.

    And I would say the same about Minnesota at St Paul or at Mariucci, if they were not the #1
    UND gets the advantage of rabid fans filling the building wherever they go so...

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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet View Post
    Except then you run into the reason why they pushed the Frozen Four out a week in the first place - competition with the Final Four.
    so shift the entire hockey season one more week :P
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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
    Correct, to me. UND should not get the advantage of rabid home fans filling the building when they are not the highest seed.

    And I would say the same about Minnesota at St Paul or at Mariucci, if they were not the #1
    Well a couple of points. First, Fargo is further from Grand Forks than Manchester is to Lowell, so by that logic we should not allow Lowell state teachers college in Manchester either. Same goes for Worcester and Holy Cross or any number of other eastern teams. Just because UND has rabid fans who travel well is no reason they shouldn't be a host. Though I admit no one wants to go to Fargo and play them. Especially Scott Sandelin.
    Second, having a top team host is too much of an advantage,what with not only the home rink, but also some rinks are not Nhl size so the home team gets an advantage from that as well, and some teams couldn't host a regional anyway, I'm looking at you Union.
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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Riz View Post
    Obviously the current system is broken, and this COULD potentially fix it.

    What I'd like to see, is the "Super regional" with 8 teams idea with a west and an east site. The west alternates between ACCESSIBLE cities for visiting fans to get to (St. Paul, Denver, maybe Omaha, Milwaukee, or Detroit also). The east alternates between accessible cities there (Boston, New York City, Philly, and maybe some others like Pittsburgh).

    The brackets could still be seeded with two teams coming out into the Frozen Four. It could be a four day tournament at each site. Seats would be a lot more full, bracket integrity would be better, and sites would be more neutral for everybody then the #1 seed hosting idea, which I do think is important to the NCAA to some extent. Also, with the #1 seed what happens to fans of visiting teams that want to travel and watch their team play? That should ALWAYS be strongly encouraged in a regional team format and some cities, such as Duluth are extremely hard for visiting fans to get to.
    This always comes up. Super regionals are not feasible. There are only a scant few facilities able to accommodate 8 teams at one time, and you'd have to clear a minimum of 8 practice times the day before if you split the games into 4 days - and that in itself is intolerable. Want to compress it to 2 days? Now you need 16 practice times. And if your answer is sharing locker rooms, you're out of your mind.

    If you know any history of what a logistical disaster a 6 team site was, you'd immediately realize that adding 2 more teams only exacerbates all the problems.

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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by manurespreader View Post
    Well a couple of points. First, Fargo is further from Grand Forks than Manchester is to Lowell, so by that logic we should not allow Lowell state teachers college in Manchester either. Same goes for Worcester and Holy Cross or any number of other eastern teams. Just because UND has rabid fans who travel well is no reason they shouldn't be a host. Though I admit no one wants to go to Fargo and play them. Especially Scott Sandelin.
    Second, having a top team host is too much of an advantage,what with not only the home rink, but also some rinks are not Nhl size so the home team gets an advantage from that as well, and some teams couldn't host a regional anyway, I'm looking at you Union.
    There is simply no way to compare the Boston/Lowell situation, with so many teams packed into a small area, and fans of all the teams vying to purchase tickets, and the possibility of some neutral ticket purchasers also, with the situation in North Dakota.

    Here is how it goes along the Red River of the north. There is a huge natural rivalry between UND and NDSU. NDSU, of course, is in Fargo, but has no hockey team that is important for this conversation. Scheels' seats about 5000 I think. Any seat not devoted to one of the other 4 schools, or devoted to the NCAA, will be purchased by UND fans. It's only 70 minutes down I-29, and those fans are very accustomed to driving long distances in wide open spaces to go anywhere. It's NOT a hurdle to them at all. Remember, UND is the host school because they bid for it.

    And, in this case, it's not fair to BU and to UMD. The only reason for it is that, many years ago, the Hockey Committee petitioned the NCAA for a waiver to go to a 16-team tournament, because they thought they were about to be in a boom situation. That boom has not happened.

    It's time to do something else.

    I don't care, really. I think campus hosts for 2 rounds is best. Give the #1 seed a bonus. If the logistics are too small for that, or the NCAA is afraid of a school with a small barn ending up hosting, then try something else, like:

    2 Super Regionals. As has been discussed here. One in the east, one in the west, in places that have proven to be central, and draws. St Paul, Detroit, Denver maybe in the west. Even, Duluth at Amsoil. Put 8 teams at each place. Play 2 games Friday, 2 games Saturday, and 2 games Sunday at each place. Friday winners play each other, so rest is equal.

    Whatever, but make it more fair. (And, I know, Duluth wouldn't be fair in this situation unless they were a #1. It was just for example.

    And, edit: I just saw MacInnes' post, and those are good points. Still, something needs to change because the present arrangement gives us emptiness at Cincinnati and Toledo, and NoDak playing home games even though they are the #3 seed.
    Last edited by Numbers; 03-20-2017 at 03:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
    Correct, to me. UND should not get the advantage of rabid home fans filling the building when they are not the highest seed.

    And I would say the same about Minnesota at St Paul or at Mariucci, if they were not the #1
    If it is simply a matter of Rabid North Dakota fans can't we just give them a Rabies shot which turns them into normal hockey fans (or human beings) for the weekend??

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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    well what if you had a higher seed host the weekend and they lost the first game? then you have a completely empty barn in that case also.
    I don't see any really good solution, but really to me it's a big problem in only one regional, the mid west. Everyone else is at least breaking even. And if i'm a Penn State fan as an example, am I going to the Tech game, next weekend, and spend 7 hours in the arena. Probably not, so saying there will be a great environment, I can't see it happening even at a home rink because half the fans aren't showing up for the other game. Except in North Dakota of course.
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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    I think that people here are over reacting to the potential home ice advantage for North Dakota and Providence. There will probably be more Lowell fans in Manchester than PC fans in Providence and even North Dakota fans in Fargo. Let's say North Dakota gets 4000 of those 5000 seats. That is far less than BU is used to playing against if at BC or Lowell or UNH for that matter. If anything BU thrives on those types of atmosphere games which is on ice that UND is not familiar with either. UMD may well not even have to play UND so that may be moot. It may well be UMD's regional to lose as they draw tOSU which will be without their senior top scoring by far defenseman under DQ. Don't forget there are not home ice officials from these supposed home teams leagues officiating. Familiarity with the officials is hugely overlooked in home ice non league games. Having attended the BC-UND game in MSG, that was a big disadvantage to BC since the NCHC was hosting the event, as calls and non calls are called differently by different leagues. BU if they play the way they can, they should handle UND. Having seen all 4 teams play this year, Harvard likewise should handle PC. Again it is not PC's home rink. In my opinion Harvard is the team to beat in this tournament. Perhaps the team with the biggest potential for home ice would be Notre Dame if they could make it to Chicago which is essentially their home city.

  9. #449
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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by oldchfan View Post
    If it is simply a matter of Rabid North Dakota fans can't we just give them a Rabies shot which turns them into normal hockey fans (or human beings) for the weekend??
    No.
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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BC/HE View Post
    I think that people here are over reacting to the potential home ice advantage for North Dakota and Providence. There will probably be more Lowell fans in Manchester than PC fans in Providence and even North Dakota fans in Fargo. Let's say North Dakota gets 4000 of those 5000 seats. That is far less than BU is used to playing against if at BC or Lowell or UNH for that matter. If anything BU thrives on those types of atmosphere games which is on ice that UND is not familiar with either. UMD may well not even have to play UND so that may be moot. It may well be UMD's regional to lose as they draw tOSU which will be without their senior top scoring by far defenseman under DQ. Don't forget there are not home ice officials from these supposed home teams leagues officiating. Familiarity with the officials is hugely overlooked in home ice non league games. Having attended the BC-UND game in MSG, that was a big disadvantage to BC since the NCHC was hosting the event, as calls and non calls are called differently by different leagues. BU if they play the way they can, they should handle UND. Having seen all 4 teams play this year, Harvard likewise should handle PC. Again it is not PC's home rink. In my opinion Harvard is the team to beat in this tournament. Perhaps the team with the biggest potential for home ice would be Notre Dame if they could make it to Chicago which is essentially their home city.
    Providence will outdraw Manchester...just watch and see. Happened the last time the regionals were in these two cities with BU/Yale in Manchester and PC/BC in Providence.
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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BC/HE View Post
    I think that people here are over reacting to the potential home ice advantage for North Dakota and Providence. There will probably be more Lowell fans in Manchester than PC fans in Providence and even North Dakota fans in Fargo..
    you obviously weren't at umlol for their games against uhn friends & family. heck, friday when mookie was there the uhn crowd was louder all night than the home dozens

    and jasmine was even there!!!! shame
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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Zlax45 View Post
    Providence will outdraw Manchester...just watch and see. Happened the last time the regionals were in these two cities with BU/Yale in Manchester and PC/BC in Providence.
    duh. america's team was in the house
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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BC/HE View Post
    I think that people here are over reacting to the potential home ice advantage for North Dakota and Providence. There will probably be more Lowell fans in Manchester than PC fans in Providence and even North Dakota fans in Fargo. Let's say North Dakota gets 4000 of those 5000 seats. That is far less than BU is used to playing against if at BC or Lowell or UNH for that matter. If anything BU thrives on those types of atmosphere games which is on ice that UND is not familiar with either. UMD may well not even have to play UND so that may be moot. It may well be UMD's regional to lose as they draw tOSU which will be without their senior top scoring by far defenseman under DQ. Don't forget there are not home ice officials from these supposed home teams leagues officiating. Familiarity with the officials is hugely overlooked in home ice non league games. Having attended the BC-UND game in MSG, that was a big disadvantage to BC since the NCHC was hosting the event, as calls and non calls are called differently by different leagues. BU if they play the way they can, they should handle UND. Having seen all 4 teams play this year, Harvard likewise should handle PC. Again it is not PC's home rink. In my opinion Harvard is the team to beat in this tournament. Perhaps the team with the biggest potential for home ice would be Notre Dame if they could make it to Chicago which is essentially their home city.
    If you were at the Fargo regionals, you'd know that it's a huge home ice advantage for UND. 5300 fans in a low ceiling arena like Scheels can get loud. I've got season tickets and the 2015 regionals were a bigger home ice advantage than almost any regular season game at The Ralph I've ever been to. You have to understand fans are paying $300/ticket on the secondary market to get into the building so you're getting a lot of diehards. Also, the standing room sections behind the nets adds another dynamic for chirping the opposing goalie.

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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MplsSioux View Post
    If you were at the Fargo regionals, you'd know that it's a huge home ice advantage for UND. 5300 fans in a low ceiling arena like Scheels can get loud. I've got season tickets and the 2015 regionals were a bigger home ice advantage than almost any regular season game at The Ralph I've ever been to. You have to understand fans are paying $300/ticket on the secondary market to get into the building so you're getting a lot of diehards. Also, the standing room sections behind the nets adds another dynamic for chirping the opposing goalie.
    It was crazy last time. I made a ton of money selling off my championship game tickets because I just couldn't bare to watch that championship game after the way Michigan Tech lost to St Cloud...
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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    It was crazy last time. I made a ton of money selling off my championship game tickets because I just couldn't bare to watch that championship game after the way Michigan Tech lost to St Cloud...
    Yeah you guys deserved to win that game, I felt for your fans. The goal SCSU scored that year kind of reminded me of the OT goal you guys just scored(in terms of the goalie being taken out) to beat BGSU for the Broadmoor Trophy. I may be way off since it was a couple years ago but that's how I remember it.
    Last edited by MplsSioux; 03-21-2017 at 10:32 AM.

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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MplsSioux View Post
    Yeah you guys deserved to win that game, I felt for your fans. The goal SCSU scored that year kind of reminded me of the OT goal you guys just scored(in terms of the goalie being taken out) to beat BGSU for the Broadmoor Trophy. I may be way off since it was a couple years ago but that's how I remember it.
    I just remembering being so angry with the ref for that embellishment call at the end that allowed SCSU to have a defacto PP with their goalie pulled, and then Sweeney falling in OT...what a heart breaker.
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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mookie1995 View Post
    duh. america's team was in the house
    Exactly. Comparing a BC/PC pairing to a PC/Harvard (Harvard!) is laughable

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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by John J. MacInnes View Post
    This always comes up. Super regionals are not feasible. There are only a scant few facilities able to accommodate 8 teams at one time, and you'd have to clear a minimum of 8 practice times the day before if you split the games into 4 days - and that in itself is intolerable. Want to compress it to 2 days? Now you need 16 practice times. And if your answer is sharing locker rooms, you're out of your mind.

    If you know any history of what a logistical disaster a 6 team site was, you'd immediately realize that adding 2 more teams only exacerbates all the problems.
    Is it perfect? No. Is it feasible? Yes. The practicing would be a bit of an issue but it could be figured out. They even have time to split it over a two weekends if needed. All of it in 2 days would obviously never happen.

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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    I just remembering being so angry with the ref for that embellishment call at the end that allowed SCSU to have a defacto PP with their goalie pulled, and then Sweeney falling in OT...what a heart breaker.
    Ah, you're right & my memory sucks. The point-man lost his balance leading to a breakaway for SCSU. That was one of those games where you beat them in every single category besides the scoreboard, just came at the worst possible time.

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    Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

    I don't know if certain places inflate reported attendance and others don't but my gut tells me the combo of Lowell and Cornell in Manchester will draw more than PC and Harvard in Providence. Unless all the fake Friar hockey fans come out of the woodwork and flock to the Dunk.

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