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2017 Pairwise thread

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  • Originally posted by Crimson on the Glass View Post
    Once again, I don't care where Harvard ended up this time, or any other time as long as it is fair. If the Crimson are going to win, they can do that anywhere. What is bothersome is the position allegedly held by the NCAA itself and reportedly stated by Providence officials about its special treatment as a non-host school. That's all. I don't know how they came to this (regardless of PWR rank) status level that the other 15 teams do not seem to enjoy.
    But, how is it a status that other teams don't enjoy? It happens when any Boston area team gets switched into Worcester. It happens when any ECAC team gets switched into Albany. It happens when a Western team stays West or an Eastern team stays East for attendance purposes. These decisions are made all the time. Attendance is a factor, like it or not.

    The issue with Providence seems to be the game is in city limits and not an hour up the road. Which has no tangible difference from any other 'placement' we see all the time except actual (and minimal) mileage.
    Live Free or Die!!
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    • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

      Originally posted by Crimson on the Glass View Post
      Once again, I don't care where Harvard ended up this time, or any other time as long as it is fair. If the Crimson are going to win, they can do that anywhere. What is bothersome is the position allegedly held by the NCAA itself and reportedly stated by Providence officials about its special treatment as a non-host school. That's all. I don't know how they came to this (regardless of PWR rank) status level that the other 15 teams do not seem to enjoy.
      This is one reason I am interested in seeing where the next regionals will be played. Usually, we know more than a year in advance, and there were some rumblings about campus sites coming back.

      I, for one, would be more in favor of:

      Top 4 teams host the weekend. Then the committee decides the dates, times, and adjusts the brackets accordingly. I know it would be a big advantage for, say, Minnesota to play at Mariucci, or UMD at Amsoil. But, at least everyone would admit they earned it. This year's NoDak and Prov brackets are not really appropriate.

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      • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

        Originally posted by Dan View Post
        But, how is it a status that other teams don't enjoy? It happens when any Boston area team gets switched into Worcester. It happens when any ECAC team gets switched into Albany. It happens when a Western team stays West or an Eastern team stays East for attendance purposes. These decisions are made all the time. Attendance is a factor, like it or not.

        The issue with Providence seems to be the game is in city limits and not an hour up the road. Which has no tangible difference from any other 'placement' we see all the time except actual (and minimal) mileage.
        I think most of the issues is Providence gets treated as a defacto host when they haven't put in the work to host.
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        • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

          Originally posted by Numbers View Post
          This is one reason I am interested in seeing where the next regionals will be played. Usually, we know more than a year in advance, and there were some rumblings about campus sites coming back.

          I, for one, would be more in favor of:

          Top 4 teams host the weekend. Then the committee decides the dates, times, and adjusts the brackets accordingly. I know it would be a big advantage for, say, Minnesota to play at Mariucci, or UMD at Amsoil. But, at least everyone would admit they earned it. This year's NoDak and Prov brackets are not really appropriate.
          What do you mean by appropriate? The Fargo bracket is bracket integrity to a T. Sounds like you have more of an issue with North Dakota being able to host in Fargo.

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          • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

            What overall seed # was Providence in 2015? I know Miami was #4

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            • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

              Originally posted by Numbers View Post
              This is one reason I am interested in seeing where the next regionals will be played. Usually, we know more than a year in advance, and there were some rumblings about campus sites coming back.

              I, for one, would be more in favor of:

              Top 4 teams host the weekend. Then the committee decides the dates, times, and adjusts the brackets accordingly. I know it would be a big advantage for, say, Minnesota to play at Mariucci, or UMD at Amsoil. But, at least everyone would admit they earned it. This year's NoDak and Prov brackets are not really appropriate.
              Usually it's on the NCAA website. I haven't seen it yet and I'm wondering if that's because they are considering going back to campus sites.

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              • Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                What overall seed # was Providence in 2015? I know Miami was #4
                PC was 15 - last team in. In terms of PWR, Miami caught a break playing two seeds lower than integrity would dictate. PC got hot at the right time.

                Quinnipiac was shipped west instead. Likely happens in Worcester too (without complaint), but you could certainly make the argument PC should have been shipped. Regardless, Miami should have won. Miami vs Q is still a one seed playing a four in its own backyard...

                The other thing that gets lost I think - is hockey's tourney essentially starts with its sweet sixteen. One seeds are going to lose, less due to location and more due to the fact that every team in the tourney is capable of winning it all...
                Last edited by Dan; 03-20-2017, 12:12 PM.
                Live Free or Die!!
                Miami University '03

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                • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

                  I'm torn on that issue. I want great atmospheres for these games but for the people that do want to go to these games, could make it a lot harder for them if you go back to on campus sites (depending on format).

                  If you want to keep this thing at 16 teams how about you go back to two regionals, six teams in each region. Top 8 automatically go to the regionals. Remaining 8 teams play the week before in an opening round on campus game/series. The 4 winners advance to the regionals.

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                  • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

                    Originally posted by Dan View Post
                    PC was 15 - last team in. In terms of PWR, Miami caught a break playing two seeds lower than integrity would dictate. PC got hot at the right time.
                    Agreed. I think it had more to do with Miami playing horribly than anything else. Pretty sure Providence lost in the HE QFs at home against UNH. Miami simply gagged.

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                    • Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                      Agreed. I think it had more to do with Miami playing horribly than anything else. Pretty sure Providence lost in the HE QFs at home against UNH. Miami simply gagged.
                      2015: didn't Miami fall behind 7-2 or something, then pulled the goalie, staging a furious rally, and lost 7-6?
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                      • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

                        Originally posted by Numbers View Post
                        This is one reason I am interested in seeing where the next regionals will be played. Usually, we know more than a year in advance, and there were some rumblings about campus sites coming back.

                        I, for one, would be more in favor of:

                        Top 4 teams host the weekend. Then the committee decides the dates, times, and adjusts the brackets accordingly. I know it would be a big advantage for, say, Minnesota to play at Mariucci, or UMD at Amsoil. But, at least everyone would admit they earned it. This year's NoDak and Prov brackets are not really appropriate.
                        Obviously the current system is broken, and this COULD potentially fix it.

                        What I'd like to see, is the "Super regional" with 8 teams idea with a west and an east site. The west alternates between ACCESSIBLE cities for visiting fans to get to (St. Paul, Denver, maybe Omaha, Milwaukee, or Detroit also). The east alternates between accessible cities there (Boston, New York City, Philly, and maybe some others like Pittsburgh).

                        The brackets could still be seeded with two teams coming out into the Frozen Four. It could be a four day tournament at each site. Seats would be a lot more full, bracket integrity would be better, and sites would be more neutral for everybody then the #1 seed hosting idea, which I do think is important to the NCAA to some extent. Also, with the #1 seed what happens to fans of visiting teams that want to travel and watch their team play? That should ALWAYS be strongly encouraged in a regional team format and some cities, such as Duluth are extremely hard for visiting fans to get to.
                        Last edited by Riz; 03-20-2017, 12:36 PM.

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                        • Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                          What do you mean by appropriate? The Fargo bracket is bracket integrity to a T. Sounds like you have more of an issue with North Dakota being able to host in Fargo.
                          I take it as meaning teams that earn a 1 seed may have earned the right to play at home as opposed to teams that are seeded 3 or 4, especially at the expense of the top seeds.

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                          • Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                            Agreed. I think it had more to do with Miami playing horribly than anything else. Pretty sure Providence lost in the HE QFs at home against UNH. Miami simply gagged.
                            Yup, as a UNH fan from childhood and a Miami fan through attendance, I remember assuring Miami fans that if that UNH team could win a series at Schneider than the RedHawks should have no trouble at all...

                            Bob, yes this was the game where Miami fell well behind. There first 50 minutes were atrocious. The worst they'd played all year. That and missing Barber and Coleman were what did then in and those two factors would have killed them had the game been played in Oxford.
                            Live Free or Die!!
                            Miami University '03

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                            • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

                              Originally posted by Riz View Post
                              Obviously the current system is broken, and this COULD potentially fix it.

                              What I'd like to see, is the "Super regional" with 8 teams idea with a west and an east site. The west alternates between ACCESSIBLE cities for visiting fans to get to (St. Paul, Denver, maybe Omaha, Milwaukee, or Detroit also). The east alternates between accessible cities there (Boston, New York City, Philly, and maybe some others like Pittsburgh).

                              The brackets could still be seeded with two teams coming out into the Frozen Four. It could be a four day tournament at each site. Seats would be a lot more full, bracket integrity would be better, and sites would be more neutral for everybody then the #1 seed hosting idea, which I do think is important to the NCAA to some extent. Also, with the #1 seed what happens to fans of visiting teams that want to travel and watch their team play? That should ALWAYS be strongly encouraged in a regional team format and some cities, such as Duluth are extremely hard for visiting fans to get to.
                              Just eliminate host schools. There's absolutely no need to have a system like that in place and it only complicates the process.
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                              • Re: 2017 Pairwise thread

                                The host school has to have some significance. Behind the scenes/planning/accommodations etc? I have no idea. But there has to be something Brown is doing for this regional, no? Unless you just meant eliminate the rule where a host school is automatically placed in that regional.

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